Modern Watermans: Expert Vs Carene

[Dino71]

Hi!

 

I have a Parker Frontier which I use for traveling since I don't like packing ink bottles on trips. It works fine but I need something dressier for business trips.

 

I went to the local B&M store, and they had a decent selection of modern Waterman pens. I have no experience with this brand but the lines look conservative enough to use when meeting clients. There were two models that appealed to me. The Expert was one and the Carene was the other.

 

My current pens are a Pelikan M215, a Parker Frontier and a Lamy Safari. ( I do have a Peli Brown Tortoise 400 arriving soon but that's a story for another day.) The weight of the M215 is about as much as I can handle for lengthy writing sessions. For work, I like Fine nibs.

 

Given all this, would you recommend one model over the other? I will only use cartridges in these pens. The converter will only be used to flush the pens after use.

 

 

Thanks for any insights you can provide.

 

Dino

[mdbrown]

I have both. I prefer the looks of the Carene but actually find the Expert to be a better user. Both are brass based but the Expert isn't as heavy as the Carene. My Carene has a medium nib, very nice inlaid 18k but stiff as a board and very wet and very heavy, almost bold. The Expert has a steel nib also medium but it's not as wet and is sized more like a medium. While it's also stiff it's not like the carene. I must confess too that the Expert has a very appealing and classic style that is, to me at least, as recognizable as a Montblanc.

 

My vote is the Expert.

[Treecat]

I have, and like, both pens. The Expert is an attractive, well-made pen that writes very smoothly and is very comfortable to use over a long period of time. My Expert is one of the most comfortable and best writing pens I have. I believe its weight would be similar to your Pel 215. The Carene is more expensive, has a gold nib, and also writes well. TBH, using both pens, I find them to be equally good writers, just different because of the type of nibs they have (inlaid vs. open). The Carene is heavier than the Expert and that might make a difference to you. If you could visit a store and use both of them for a few minutes and then pick the one you're most comfortable with, that would be best. I honestly don't think you can go wrong with either pen.

 

Edit to add: mdbrown has some excellent points. The Carene medium nib is a very wide medium, the Carene fine nib can be very fine and very dry in my experience. Unless the gold nib and the appearance of the Carene really grabs you, the Expert is a great looking pen and a great value.

Edited February 18, 2011 by Treecat

[bayport714]

Another vote for the Expert. I had a Carene and sold it. It wrote kk but I did not like the feel or shape. I have had the Expert in my rotation, of and on, for years. You should be able to find an Expert at a pretty good price.

[Left FPN]

I have fine, medium and broad Carene's.

 

They all write lovely....especially the broads.

 

Some have had skipping problems with the finer nibs because, I think, they are less wet.

 

Obviously only YOU WILL be able to fully answer your Q by testing one against tother. Can I suggest buying one of each second hand. Try them for a month or so then sell the one you dont get along with for the same price you bought it.

 

Only just this afternoon a new boxed Sea Garden in Medium sold for £56...

Edited February 18, 2011 by Force

[voop]

Carene all the way. Wonderful pen, ergonomic and comfortable in the hand, excellent nib - cant go wrong with that. The expert may be nice, but the Carene is excellent -- you won't regret it, the expert you might. N

[Ghost Plane]

Carenes are my travel pens. B or stub nibs for me.

[Dino71]

Edit to add: mdbrown has some excellent points. The Carene medium nib is a very wide medium, the Carene fine nib can be very fine and very dry in my experience.

 

Hi Treecat!

 

In terms of the Fine Carene nib, did it still write dry with Waterman Florida Blue?

 

I have fine, medium and broad Carene's.

 

They all write lovely....especially the broads.

 

Some have had skipping problems with the finer nibs because, I think, they are less wet.

 

Obviously only YOU WILL be able to fully answer your Q by testing one against tother. Can I suggest buying one of each second hand. Try them for a month or so then sell the one you dont get along with for the same price you bought it.

 

 

Hi Force!

 

The second hand market here is quite limited when it comes to new Watermans. The stores have good stocks though, but the practice of letting the customer dip a pen before buying is not standard practice. Hence, my query on this board.

 

I don't really mind a nail for a Fine point since this is for notes. But I am curious as to how dry the Waterman Carene Fines can be. Would this be similar to the dryness of the Lamy Safari Fine?

 

 

Dino

[Treecat]

Hi Dino, I used Waterman Florida Blue and PR Midnight Blues in the pen, and asked the seller to exchange it for a medium within a couple of weeks of getting it. I never liked it. OTOH, there are times I wish the Carene medium nib was just slightly finer than it is. Never satisfied <sigh>.

 

But don't discount the Waterman Expert II, either. It's one of the finest steel nibs I have, smooth and trouble free. I can put the pen up for a couple of weeks and it writes immediately. I think it comes down to the look you prefer in the two pens and how much you want to spend. Both are excellent.

 

Do let us know what you decide!

[Dino71]

I passe by the shop today to handle both models again. The only resin Carenes left were the maroon ones which I don't like. They did have one Carene with a black barrel and a vermeil (I think) cap. It was heavier than my 215 but the balance was good. No Fines though, just Mediums. Asking price was a little under $170.

 

The Experts had a bot more variety. Nice weight though slightly simmer barrel. Price was a little over $80.

 

They also had another model which I mistook for an Expert. A Charleston. Still looking up this model.

 

Ah decisions, decisions...

[georges zaslavsky]

the first generation expert is my recommandation

[voop]

I passe by the shop today to handle both models again. The only resin Carenes left were the maroon ones which I don't like. They did have one Carene with a black barrel and a vermeil (I think) cap. It was heavier than my 215 but the balance was good. No Fines though, just Mediums. Asking price was a little under $170.

 

The Experts had a bot more variety. Nice weight though slightly simmer barrel. Price was a little over $80.

 

They also had another model which I mistook for an Expert. A Charleston. Still looking up this model.

 

Ah decisions, decisions...

 

The Carene that you handled must have been the Deluxe model....it *is* very nice, incidentally my first Carene ever was that (with a stub nib).....still a daily user here.

[Calbei]

Carenes do have some weight but you are absolutely right in saying they are exceptionally well balanced. You might like to try online if you can't find a suitable range of colours. Lewertowski has a strong eBay presence (no affiliation) and stocks most Waterman pens.

 

My Carene was originally a medium nib which felt more like a broad. I had it exchanged for a fine and now it's an excellent writer: a true Western fine, smooth and lots of flow.

Edited February 24, 2011 by Calbei

[Left FPN]

I passe by the shop today to handle both models again. The only resin Carenes left were the maroon ones which I don't like. They did have one Carene with a black barrel and a vermeil (I think) cap. It was heavier than my 215 but the balance was good. No Fines though, just Mediums. Asking price was a little under $170.

 

The Experts had a bot more variety. Nice weight though slightly simmer barrel. Price was a little over $80.

 

They also had another model which I mistook for an Expert. A Charleston. Still looking up this model.

 

Ah decisions, decisions...

 

The Carene that you handled must have been the Deluxe model....it *is* very nice, incidentally my first Carene ever was that (with a stub nib).....still a daily user here.

 

'resin Carene' ???

 

All Carenes are lacquer over brass. The lacquer is either matt of gloss.

[mdbrown]

Hi!

 

I have a Parker Frontier which I use for traveling since I don't like packing ink bottles on trips. It works fine but I need something dressier for business trips.

 

I went to the local B&M store, and they had a decent selection of modern Waterman pens. I have no experience with this brand but the lines look conservative enough to use when meeting clients. There were two models that appealed to me. The Expert was one and the Carene was the other.

 

My current pens are a Pelikan M215, a Parker Frontier and a Lamy Safari. ( I do have a Peli Brown Tortoise 400 arriving soon but that's a story for another day.) The weight of the M215 is about as much as I can handle for lengthy writing sessions. For work, I like Fine nibs.

 

Given all this, would you recommend one model over the other? I will only use cartridges in these pens. The converter will only be used to flush the pens after use.

 

 

Thanks for any insights you can provide.

 

Dino

 

 

Am curious, did you make a decision and purchase one or the other? Did you purchase something else altogether and how do you like what you got... if you did?

[FLJeepGuy]

I have two Carenes that I traveled extensively with; on the road three weeks per month, home on weekends. They're built about as solidly as you can get, and never once did I have a leakage problem or a failure to start. The Carenes have zero, nada, nil flex to the nibs, but lay down a smooth consistent line every time. I have a fine point in Amber Shimmer (with matching rollerball) and a medium point in black with sterling silver cap. The sections are identical and can be interchanged between the pens. I love the modern styling, finishes, and inlaid nibs of the Carenes. My black/sterling pen is especially beautiful yet understated.

 

Another nice thing about the Carenes is that they have a rubber O-ring where the section screws into the barrel. I think this may play a part in their travel friendliness. I've used them about as hard as anyone can use a pen, taken notes in flights, tossed them in my laptop bag and briefcase, pulled them out in airports to take notes in kiosks between flights and never once worried or had a problem. They always write as long as there is so much as a touch of ink available.

 

I've no experience with the Experts although I've had one on my "to buy" list for a while, but I have absolutely no reservations about recommending the Carenes.

[Dino71]

The shop owner was easy to talk to. I settled on the deluxe in black with a silver cap. Medium is all that is available.

 

He gave me a decent discount so I paid $ 120 for it. Have not inked it yet. Also got a Lamy Studio in brushed stainless XF for $48. Between the two pens, my travel pen needs are addressed.

[Calbei]

That seems to be a very good price! I work that out as being ~74.5*1.2= ~£89... and that beats our beloved Pen Seller From France quite significantly!

 

I hope you enjoy your new pen.

Edited February 25, 2011 by Calbei

[Left FPN]

The shop owner was easy to talk to. I settled on the deluxe in black with a silver cap. Medium is all that is available.

 

He gave me a decent discount so I paid $ 120 for it. Have not inked it yet. Also got a Lamy Studio in brushed stainless XF for $48. Between the two pens, my travel pen needs are addressed.

 

Yes, a good price for the deluxe.

 

You can exchange the nib section if you find it too wide. Don't wait too long and make sure it is as new. All it costs is your postage to your nearest NR Waterman base. They post it back FOC. I think you have to send the complete pen and receipt of purchase.

Edited February 25, 2011 by Force

[Dino71]

That seems to be a very good price! I work that out as being ~74.5*1.2= ~£89... and that beats our beloved Pen Seller From France quite significantly!

 

I hope you enjoy your new pen.

 

Thanks! I hope I do.

 

Anyway, I haggled with the shop owner since I viewed the pen as NOS, which he confirmed. Watermans don't really move fast over here so I think he was all too happy to see me get the pen.

 

Yes, a good price for the deluxe.

 

You can exchange the nib section if you find it too wide. Don't wait too long and make sure it is as new. All it costs is your postage to your nearest NR Waterman base. They post it back FOC. I think you have to send the complete pen and receipt of purchase.

 

Folks on this thread have told me that the Medium on this pen might run closer to a Broad. I don't mind unless I need to make notes on margins. That's why I decided to get the Lamy too. I have a Safari with extra nibs which can also be used in the Studio. Given these two pens, I should be well equipped as far as C/C models go.