Learning Copperplate...

[fuchsiaprincess]

I have a question (see the last two lines "gentle and kind") : which way should one join onto the 'n'?

The first way

 

Ken

 

Thank you kindly for your prompt reply, Ken! I have come across the second way of joining occasionally, and was confused. Are there any hard and fast rules with regard to joining letters in Copperplate?

 

Warm regards,

Soki

[caliken]

I have a question (see the last two lines "gentle and kind") : which way should one join onto the 'n'?

The first way

 

Ken

 

Thank you kindly for your prompt reply, Ken! I have come across the second way of joining occasionally, and was confused. Are there any hard and fast rules with regard to joining letters in Copperplate?

 

Warm regards,

Soki

It's actually quite simple, in Copperplate handwriting. All letters can, and usually are, joined front and back. Joins are always over-linked as in your second example, and complete words can be written in a continuous stream without interruption.

The 'joining' rule, is that there are always joins and therefore no rules!

 

Ken

[Murphhans]

A good day. Dick Jackson's book arrived...glad to have a single authoritative source for lessons (that is until Ken's Copperplate book comes along). I found that alternating between Baird lessons and Youtube clips and other Misc sources was not a good practice for a beginner...just too confusing.

[fuchsiaprincess]

I have a question (see the last two lines "gentle and kind") : which way should one join onto the 'n'?

The first way

 

Ken

 

Thank you kindly for your prompt reply, Ken! I have come across the second way of joining occasionally, and was confused. Are there any hard and fast rules with regard to joining letters in Copperplate?

 

Warm regards,

Soki

It's actually quite simple, in Copperplate handwriting. All letters can, and usually are, joined front and back. Joins are always over-linked as in your second example, and complete words can be written in a continuous stream without interruption.

The 'joining' rule, is that there are always joins and therefore no rules!

 

Ken

 

Oh dear! I was afraid that you would say that. So, what makes the top line more preferred than the second line? Is it asethetics due to the spacing?

 

Thank you, Ken!

 

Warm regards,

Soki

[nawybot]

Elsewhere, Ken recommends a proportion of 1:2 for the o-body (and the same proportions for the "x-body," I presume.) This would mean that Ken's x-height should be ten times the width of his shade at its widest. Is that correct, Ken? ....

-- Toby

Toby

 

I tend to refer to the Universal Penman for all basic questions relating to Copperplate...would be interested in your findings.

 

 

Ken

Ken

 

Hi, all,

Okay, my first measurements:

 

1. the largest script in The Universal Penman, gives me a proportion greater than 11:1, x-height to maximum nib width, but not as much as 12:1.

 

2. Recueil Methodique (the French book, page 3) gives me about 13:1.

 

These measurements of course have a large margin for error.

 

-- Toby

[smk]

If you have a colour printer Salman, try changing the guidelines to 10% blue or blue-grey. You will like the result.

 

Did that - and loved it. Its much easier to write over light blue lines than the black ones.

 

The bad news is that blue lines bleed badly. Its as if the paper has become super absorbent where the guidelines are drawn and it makes the results look bad!

 

Has anyone else encountered this? I am using the same inkjet printer and paper as before, the only difference is the ink, which is from the same manufacturer (HP). I get the same (leaky) behavior when I make the lines grey - which might be caused by mixing of the color ink with the black one.

 

Salman

[Achim]

 

Has anyone else encountered this? I am using the same inkjet printer and paper as before, the only difference is the ink, which is from the same manufacturer (HP). I get the same (leaky) behavior when I make the lines grey - which might be caused by mixing of the color ink with the black one.

 

Salman

 

Look in the preferences or setup program of your printer - usually there's a way to restrict grey prints to use just black (manufacturers of ink jet printers tend to hide that option away so that you have to buy more of their hideously expensive colour inks). Then you can print out the sheets with the black&white option and see if it's getting better. I've had enough of ink jet printers - the cost and the unreliability, so I'm happily using a HP CP1515n Color Laserjet for some months now.

[caliken]

The bad news is that blue lines bleed badly. Its as if the paper has become super absorbent where the guidelines are drawn and it makes the results look bad!

Has anyone else encountered this?

 

I've had this problem in the past and the answer, in my case, was simple. After printing the blue lines on my inkjet, I leave the paper to dry out overnight.

Since I started doing this, I've had no problems.

 

Ken

Edited March 2, 2011 by caliken

[caliken]

Oh dear! I was afraid that you would say that. So, what makes the top line more preferred than the second line? Is it asethetics due to the spacing?

That's possibly correct..... but I think that it just flows better over-linked!

 

Ken

Edited March 2, 2011 by caliken

[Wickwack]

Wish work didn't get in the way of practise! After so many days, finally got the chance to do some writing. Salman, you are correct. It felt so alien again after not practising for a few days

http://i1027.photobucket.com/albums/y331/fuchsiaprincess/IMGP2276.jpg

Fuchsiaprincess - what pen/nib/ink are you using? The hairline strokes are so fine. Your writing looks lovely.

Wick

[fuchsiaprincess]

Hi Wick,

 

Thank you very much for your compliment. The nib is a Gillot 303. The ink is a bottle of blue ink simply labeled 'Indigo'.

 

I have recently bought some Brause Rose nibs - the hairlines aren't as fine, but the writing experience is much smoother. and the nib doesn't catch on the paper anymore.

 

Hope this helps.

 

Warm regards,

Soki

[Wickwack]

Hi Wick,

 

Thank you very much for your compliment. The nib is a Gillot 303. The ink is a bottle of blue ink simply labeled 'Indigo'.

 

I have recently bought some Brause Rose nibs - the hairlines aren't as fine, but the writing experience is much smoother. and the nib doesn't catch on the paper anymore.

 

Hope this helps.

 

Warm regards,

Soki

 

Hi Soki,

I have both of those nibs (actually just got them about 2 weeks ago). The blue ink is so pretty but combined with your skilled letterforms it looks beautiful. I just got some new smooth laser jet paper which is working much better that the 25% cotton I started out with. Practice really is the key isn't it? This topic keeps me on track for sure. Thanks for posting your examples - it gives me motivation!

 

Wick

[smk]

 

Look in the preferences or setup program of your printer - usually there's a way to restrict grey prints to use just black (manufacturers of ink jet printers tend to hide that option away so that you have to buy more of their hideously expensive colour inks). Then you can print out the sheets with the black&white option and see if it's getting better. I've had enough of ink jet printers - the cost and the unreliability, so I'm happily using a HP CP1515n Color Laserjet for some months now.

 

Thanks Achim - this is good to know. I couldn't find the option on the first pass and saw Ken's reply (which worked) before investigating further. I'll make a note of this for future reference - it might come in handy.

 

 

I've had this problem in the past and the answer, in my case, was simple. After printing the blue lines on my inkjet, I leave the paper to dry out overnight.

Since I started doing this, I've had no problems.

 

Ken

 

Thanks Ken - this simple solution worked for me too.

 

Here's a scan of my bleed-free practice - the scanner didn't pick up the faint grey lines but they are there!

 

 

I think I'm getting the hang of most of it now. I'll post something worth showing soon.

 

Salman

[Wickwack]

Beautiful Salman! Can you post a link to the guideline paper with the gray lines? Or did you just set your printer to grayscale? The printer I'm using doesn't have a grayscale option.

[smk]

Beautiful Salman! Can you post a link to the guideline paper with the gray lines? Or did you just set your printer to grayscale? The printer I'm using doesn't have a grayscale option.

 

Sure. Here's the link: CuPl8-10mm-55deg-grey-halves.pdf. This is set to 10 mm (its BIG) for the x-height and the same for the ascenders and descenders - you may not like this as this is mainly for my practice for the non-ascender/descender letters.

 

I can make you one in the proportions you want - just let me know the size.

 

Regards,

Salman

[Achim]

Here's a deep and thought provoking poem for the weekend

33% of original size (6 mm x-height).

[Achim]

Here's my latest attempted ripoff of Ken's magnificent work, complete with missing words.

 

 

I'm left handed, and using a Speedball plastic oblique, gingerly custom-crafted *cough* with a candle and two pairs of vice grips for that perfect attack angle. After a while, I get seasick from writing upside down. Flourishes are a whole 'nother thrill ride I'm still muddling through.

 

Sorry for replying that late - but congrats anyway - this is very accomplished work, even for a lefty :clap1: . How long are you studying and exercising Copperplate?

[fuchsiaprincess]

Beautiful Salman! Can you post a link to the guideline paper with the gray lines? Or did you just set your printer to grayscale? The printer I'm using doesn't have a grayscale option.

 

Sure. Here's the link: CuPl8-10mm-55deg-grey-halves.pdf. This is set to 10 mm (its BIG) for the x-height and the same for the ascenders and descenders - you may not like this as this is mainly for my practice for the non-ascender/descender letters.

 

I can make you one in the proportions you want - just let me know the size.

 

Regards,

Salman

 

Do you have a special program for making grids, Salman? Or perhaps you're just talented

 

Warm regards,

Soki

[smk]

 

Do you have a special program for making grids, Salman? Or perhaps you're just talented

 

Warm regards,

Soki

 

Soki - I use a program called Omnigraffle. Its kinda like Visio but on a mac, and better :-) In fact I love this application and use it for all kinds of things it wasn't really intended for. I've been toying with the idea of writing a program to do the grids for me but it doesn't take long to whip one out manually so the motivation isn't really there.

 

Salman

[smk]

Here's a deep and thought provoking poem for the weekend

33% of original size (6 mm x-height).

 

This is really nice. Thanks for your regular posts, I always enjoy your contributions.

 

Salman