Learning Copperplate...

[Murphhans]

I wanted to take a moment to express my gratitude to everyone who's participating in this thread (with special thanks to Salman for starting it and to Ken Fraser for the expert insight and various recommendations for materials & books). I stumbled upon this thread when it started, and it has inspired me to give copperplate a strong effort (previously I had dismissed this hand as an impossibility for all but professional calligraphers).

 

So, I took the leap, purchased the recommended supplies and have started on the Baird lessons from IAMPETH's site (Dick Jackson's "Copperplate Calligraphy" is enroute). My first efforts were horrid (I have no background in calligraphy, drawing, or any art/craft for that matter), but I persisted, with my moods alternating from disgust, to frustration, to muted hope, to muted joy, to frustration, etc. But I have found that, sure enough, with enough repitition and patience things just start to happen.

 

What had previously felt profoundly awkward, namely wielding an oblique holder with a delicate gillot flex nib, has become almost natural feeling. And the pratice of striving for shaded undulations and crisp slanted lines has turned into a sort of meditative experience (even my breathing seems to regulate and fall in sync with my hand's rythym).

 

Although I'm only a few days into my effort (and despite my letter forms and spacing still being out of whack) it's been wonderful and rewarding so far, and I am strongly motivated to continue. To anyone reading the thread who's hesitent to take on learning copperplate, I strongly encourage you take the plunge & put in the hours on the basic excercises. I've even seen improvements in my 'normal' handwriting...maybe something to do with fine motor control and a new eye for balance and proportion.

 

So anyway, thank you all! I hope to see members' further progress posts with tales of lessons learned and experiences of calligraphic breakthrough.

 

Once I figure out posting photos, I'll quit the penmanship-voyeurism and post some of my own efforts (I'm quite new to fpn).

 

Cheers,

 

John

[Ghost Plane]

Welcome! I'm glad to hear of your progress.

[Wickwack]

Welcome Murphans! Glad you found this topic. I agree about the meditative part of calligraphy. Even though I don't have an artistic talent I found practicing "hands" has proven to be "my thing artistically!" Practice, practice, practice but don't get frustrated! Have fun with it! I've been experimenting with various dip pen nibs and that in itself will give you quite a lesson! Enjoy and glad you're here! :clap1:

[smk]

Murphhans - so glad you decided to join in. I too had previously thought this hand beyond my abilities. I am still struggling with the basics but I think with perseverance and some guidance I will be able to make it one day. I'll be looking forward to your contribution.

 

--

 

I have been out of town for a couple of days and have not had time to practice regularly. i did start with lesson 3 from Baird but I find that even a few days without practice has affected whatever little skill I had developed.

 

Here's my practice sheet - with visible regression in form :-(

 

 

What did I learn? Regularity in practice is important. Even if its for a short time. I will make sure I get some practice time in every day.

 

Goals:

1. Develop a regular practice schedule and stick to it.

2. Practice previous lessons for one session to get the form back on track.

 

Salman

[smk]

Still working on the Oval letters. Shapes not too bad, but i will have to concentrate on weight.

 

 

Some of the letters on this sheet are stunning. Most of the 'e', 'c' and 'r's are bang on target. A very good exercise, you should be well pleased with this one in my opinion.

 

Salman

[Achim]

Yesterday I tried a Gillott 404 - and it was a horrible experience! I quickly returned to the Leonhardt Principal. Today I tried an Esterbrook 356 - I like it a lot for Spencerian, but for Copperplate it has maybe a bit too much flex, it's quite difficult to make consistently thick downstrokes.

 

I was not really happy about my results today, but anyway - here's today's pangram using this nib:

Edited February 23, 2011 by Achim

[Dueller]

Yesterday I tried a Gillott 404 - and it was a horrible experience! I quickly returned to the Leonhardt Principal. Today I tried an Esterbrook 356 - I like it a lot for Spencerian, but for Copperplate it has maybe a bit too much flex, it's quite difficult to make consistently thick downstrokes.

 

I have a selection of nibs that i use depending on X-height, but my least favorite is the "404", i can't find anything good about it. I prefer a "303" or a "Hunt 22" although i'm beginning to like the "Brause rose" as well.

 

Lee

[nawybot]

In classic Copperplate, the width of a straight downstroke is 1/5th of the width of a letter, as in the minuscule h for example

Ken

 

Hi, Ken and others,

 

Just found this thread, for which I thank you all.

 

I have been trying for the last year to adapt my handwriting to look more like Roundhand. Yesterday I had a major insight courtesy of Dr. Joe, when I read his post on IAMPETH about the relationship of the letterforms--especially the joins on the baseline--to the invisible ellipses that govern Engrossers' Script. Trying to observe and obey those invisible ellipses in my own "Roundhand" imitation seemed to immediately and dramatically improve my handwriting, even at a moderate speed.

 

In the quote above, Ken answers one burning question for me about letter size and seems to imply another answer to a question that has bothered and eluded me for a long time. That is, what is the "correct" HEIGHT of "Copperplate" miniscules, AKA the proper "x-height?"

 

In Italic handwriting, Arrighi and other tutors say, right at the beginning, that the height of your miniscules (your "x-height") should be 5 times (some say a little more, some say a little less) your stroke at its widest. This is easy even for beginners to determine for Italic forms, since Italic nibs are quite rigid. Not so easy to determine with a flexible nib!

 

Elsewhere, Ken recommends a proportion of 1:2 for the o-body (and the same proportions for the "x-body," I presume.) This would mean that Ken's x-height should be ten times the width of his shade at its widest. Is that correct, Ken? (I could measure and find out, of course. I just want to know if this is your conscious choice.)

 

I thought another good way of answering this question--and of obtaining a range of recommendations instead of just one hard-and-fast rule--would be to measure a range of exemplars in the Universal Penman. I'm sure the x-height-to-shade-width distance varies, depending on the calligrapher. I tend to like rather elongated Roundhand, myself.

 

I'm interested in hearing any corrections and different opinions.

 

-- Toby

Edited February 24, 2011 by nawybot

[caliken]

All of those who have posted on this topic, are making great progress and are on the point of a breakthrough.

 

Great thread!

 

Copperplate handwriting is alive and well!

 

Ken

Edited February 24, 2011 by caliken

[Wickwack]

My paper is a bit to scratchy - the nib catches and sometimes even picks up bits of fiber (and I don't press hard) It's Staples Laser 25% cotton/32lb. Can someone tell me which paper is super smooth? So far, so good - it feels good when I can just keep writing without having to refer to the instructions on making a letter! Loving all the examples here!

[nawybot]

Can someone tell me which paper is super smooth?

 

I can vouch for the brands Clairefontaine and Rhodia (both available in the U. S.) They are expensive, but good for pointed, flexible pens.

[Achim]

Can someone tell me which paper is super smooth?

 

I can vouch for the brands Clairefontaine and Rhodia (both available in the U. S.) They are expensive, but good for pointed, flexible pens.

 

Mondi IQ Selection is what I use since Ken recommended it. My favourite, since it's even smoother, but also much more expensive is Conqueror CX22 smooth/satin (it even has a watermark which is quite rare today).

[caliken]

Elsewhere, Ken recommends a proportion of 1:2 for the o-body (and the same proportions for the "x-body," I presume.) This would mean that Ken's x-height should be ten times the width of his shade at its widest. Is that correct, Ken? (I could measure and find out, of course. I just want to know if this is your conscious choice.)

 

I thought another good way of answering this question--and of obtaining a range of recommendations instead of just one hard-and-fast rule--would be to measure a range of exemplars in the Universal Penman. I'm sure the x-height-to-shade-width distance varies, depending on the calligrapher. I tend to like rather elongated Roundhand, myself.

 

I'm interested in hearing any corrections and different opinions.

 

-- Toby

Toby,

 

I tend to refer to the Universal Penman for all basic questions relating to Copperplate (originally English Roundhand) so I think your idea is a good one. I've never taken specific measurements and would be interested in your findings.

 

 

Ken

 

Ken

Edited February 24, 2011 by caliken

[Bierce]

Here's my latest attempted ripoff of Ken's magnificent work, complete with missing words.

 

 

What is making me absolutely nuts is the wonderful consistency of spacing and line width Ken gets with his examples, that I can't seem to cop. I keep getting inconsistencies in my line widths, and the more careful I try to be about it, the worse it seems to get. Another problem is that if I get the ink watered enough for smooth hairlines, I can't seem to get squared off tops and neat terminations, but if it's thicker, I get skips in the hairlines.

 

I'm left handed, and using a Speedball plastic oblique, gingerly custom-crafted *cough* with a candle and two pairs of vice grips for that perfect attack angle. After a while, I get seasick from writing upside down. Flourishes are a whole 'nother thrill ride I'm still muddling through.

Edited February 25, 2011 by Bierce

[smk]

 

I thought another good way of answering this question--and of obtaining a range of recommendations instead of just one hard-and-fast rule--would be to measure a range of exemplars in the Universal Penman. I'm sure the x-height-to-shade-width distance varies, depending on the calligrapher. I tend to like rather elongated Roundhand, myself.

 

I'm interested in hearing any corrections and different opinions.

 

-- Toby

 

Hi Toby - I also find the broad-nib instructions much easier to follow with the letter proportions described in terms or nib width.

 

I have found that there is fair degree of variation in proportion of the Copperplate letters, even among the exemplars from various masters. I suspect an eye for proportion and balance needs to be developed more for this hand than others.

 

You might find this book useful. It was recommended to me by another FPN member (marieD). Recueil Méthodique de Principes d' Ecriture has somewhat technical instructions on letter forms. I can't read the text but the diagrams are pretty useful.

 

Salman

[nawybot]

Hi Toby - You might find this book useful. It was recommended to me by another FPN member (marieD). Recueil Méthodique de Principes d' Ecriture has somewhat technical instructions on letter forms. I can't read the text but the diagrams are pretty useful.

 

Salman

 

Hey, Salman!

 

I think that recommendation was in your wetcanvas thread. I'm following your progress both here and there.

 

When I read MarieD's note I looked at that book. I can read French, sort of, kind of, maybe, with the aid of a good F-E dictionary. Is there a diagram you'd like me to take a swing at translating for you?

 

Purely at your own risk, of course..

 

-- Toby

[fuchsiaprincess]

Wish work didn't get in the way of practise! After so many days, finally got the chance to do some writing. Salman, you are correct. It felt so alien again after not practising for a few days

http://i1027.photobucket.com/albums/y331/fuchsiaprincess/IMGP2276.jpg

[Achim]

Wish work didn't get in the way of practise! After so many days, finally got the chance to do some writing. Salman, you are correct. It felt so alien again after not practising for a few days

 

Wow! Very nice. May I ask where your letter forms come from? They look quite different than the Jackson ones I use - e.g. the "b" with the rounded right side.

Edited February 26, 2011 by Achim

[smk]

Is there a diagram you'd like me to take a swing at translating for you?

 

Purely at your own risk, of course..

 

-- Toby

 

I might take you up on that if (read: when) I get stuck :-) Thanks in advance.

 

In other news; I think I'm getting back on track now. Here's my exercise from yesterday. I intend to do no.s 3 & 4 today.

 

 

Salman

[Wickwack]

Wish work didn't get in the way of practise! After so many days, finally got the chance to do some writing. Salman, you are correct. It felt so alien again after not practising for a few days

http://i1027.photobucket.com/albums/y331/fuchsiaprincess/IMGP2276.jpg

Spectacular!