Learning Copperplate...

[crystaltigress]

Well that goes to show all the sumi has rotted my brain. Now I feel silly. Thank you for the gentle reminder to fix my holder... I had been trialing so many nibs out of frustration that when I settled down again with the G it wasn't right. I had read the IAMPETH post when I recieved it, but it was still officially trained for a 404. DOH!

And the G is also finally thinking about accepting the Eternal. Still runs off quite a bit but it's more tolerable. It does well if I don't clean it off and let it dry on the nib over night, which I'm sure is ghastly to ya'll. I'll keep cleaning with alcohol and let the forum know if it does improve. Eternal is such a popular and good product, but seemingly an enemy to G's!

I really do like the looks, smell and feel of the sumi and after this Eternal is used up I will probably be sticking to it. Do you find you have to water it down or do you use it straight out of the bottle? I added a few drops of water to my well but it's been in there for about 6 months.

Thank you again Mickey.

[Mickey]

  On 8/15/2013 at 2:46 AM, crystaltigress said:

Well that goes to show all the sumi has rotted my brain. Now I feel silly. Thank you for the gentle reminder to fix my holder... I had been trialing so many nibs out of frustration that when I settled down again with the G it wasn't right. I had read the IAMPETH post when I recieved it, but it was still officially trained for a 404. DOH!

And the G is also finally thinking about accepting the Eternal. Still runs off quite a bit but it's more tolerable. It does well if I don't clean it off and let it dry on the nib over night, which I'm sure is ghastly to ya'll. I'll keep cleaning with alcohol and let the forum know if it does improve. Eternal is such a popular and good product, but seemingly an enemy to G's!

I really do like the looks, smell and feel of the sumi and after this Eternal is used up I will probably be sticking to it. Do you find you have to water it down or do you use it straight out of the bottle? I added a few drops of water to my well but it's been in there for about 6 months.

Thank you again Mickey.

I'm constantly adding distilled water to my ink pot to maintain the correct flow. Water evaporates, don't you know? When your Eternal runs out, why not move up to the big leagues and try McCaffery's Penman Black or some of the walnut ink Salman recommends. It's dirt cheap and works awfully well.

[crystaltigress]

Here is one of my recent practices... With the G in the wrong place. Hope the pic comes out OK, I'm not sure how the phone did.

[thang1thang2]

How large are your hands? I've found that when my hands were smaller (e.g. 4th grade) I never death gripped pencils, but by 7-8th grade I was death gripping them pretty heavily as they were so tiny to me. If you think it might be because your holder is so narrow, try wrapping some tape around the handle and beefing it up. Additionally you could always buy a fat carrot holder and tape/sand to taste. Or, Brian (uniqueobliques.com) could make you a custom holder after you figure out exactly the diameter your hand loves.

 

After that, it's just a matter of retraining. I would hold the very very very tip of the holder (farthest away from the nib) and hold it straight up and down and just so ever lightly drag the nib around on the paper. That's how light the nib should be on the paper. Now place the holder in your hands, and hold it just light enough to keep it from slipping. Since you'll be pressing so light with the nib, you don't need to hold the holder very hard. If anything, I find trying to keep the nib as light as possible on the holder makes it harder for me to hold the holder tight.

 

As for the practice, it looks good! A lot of letters need work (r, e, l, d, etc) but you're getting there. Might I suggest going to page 1 and practicing the nnnnnnnnnnn exercises Ken laid out? Doing a page of those will make your shading much more even (the shading's actually rather even already) but more importantly it'll give you a sense of space.

 

As for letter practice, I prefer Salman's method over just about everything (with a small addition of mine). Write the letter you're about to practice on top of a blank page of paper with a pencil. Erase as much as necessary to make it absolutely perfect in shape, after that get the oblique holder. Write the letter as perfectly as you can 5 times with your normal gear. Reference the book, do everything you can to make it absolutely perfect. After the end of the 5 times, circle your best effort, cross out the worst effort and find something to critique about every letter. Then repeat with another 5 times.

 

I also suggest starting out at 1cm x-height (10mm). It makes copperplate much easier. Spencerian is more or less impossible to learn at large x heights because you don't get the flow for the letters right. Copperplate is much more refined, constrained and thus can be written easier at larger x-heights because you can see where you're going better.

[crystaltigress]

Thang, my hands are very small. I wear a size 5 ring. But because I've been aware my grip is "stressed" I bought a 5/8 century to begin with. I've always preferred chunkier pens, they just feel more comfortable to me. I have cut a plastic pencil grip as well and am in the middle of testing to see if more 'meat' feels more to my liking.

Drooled over Brian's work a few times already, but feel it could be more in a personal reward category... Lol

 

As for your tips, (and Mickey's as well) I am taking them to heart. It's a good possibility that I've practiced all the hands I've learned too small. Plan on making a new guide sheet today, to bump up from 6 mm to 9. The one I use from JNB goes in 3 mm increments.

 

After adjusting for the G I did find my slant improved.

 

Thanks for the kind words, It is good to know the shading is fairly even, I was worried about it being proportionate. Is the letter spacing OK for the most part? I know the gap around the capital O in Olympian was off.

 

Appreciate you both, and thank you for giving me focus to keep trying !

[varejart]

Hello guys! This is how my calligraphy looks like after 8 months.
Take a look:

 

The whole alphabet:
http://i1281.photobucket.com/albums/a515/varejart/share_zps2adbb2da.jpg

 

http://i1281.photobucket.com/albums/a515/varejart/share1_zps00339a08.jpg

 

(in these copies were used a Nikko G nib and Moon Palace Sumi Ink)

[crystaltigress]

Looks great Vareart! Have you tackled majuscules yet?

[varejart]

@crystaltigress, thank you so much! I decided to study Engrosser's Script again more carefully this time. Now that I've finished the lower case letters with a huge improvement. From now I'll study the capitals then I'll post.

[smk]

  On 8/15/2013 at 4:28 AM, crystaltigress said:

Here is one of my recent practices... With the G in the wrong place. Hope the pic comes out OK, I'm not sure how the phone did.

 

I cannot add anything to Mickey's and thang1thang2's advice.

 

I would, however, like to say that there are a lot of things 'right' in the script on your practice sheet - in particular, you have a very well developed compound curve (the last stroke of m, n, h). The shading is fairly even and the overall look is well balanced. While it may seem like an uphill battle at times, you have come a long way in learning a very difficult hand. I will be looking forward to your next practice sheet.

 

Salman

[smk]

  On 8/18/2013 at 4:24 PM, varejart said:

Hello guys! This is how my calligraphy looks like after 8 months.

 

 

This is good stuff varejart - you have every right to be proud of it.

 

Salman

[crystaltigress]

Salman, I so appreciate your words, the forum here has given me incentive when I was about to give up! I have taken some advice, and I'm in the processes of adjusting my practice to the larger size. I'm now working with 9 mm, and for some reason I do tend to overuse the slant lines in making the forms.

I have noticed that it's not like riding a bike, there is a definate warm up period when you've been away from it. Silly responsibilites, do they not know I've better things to do?

I have also noticed a SLIGHT improvement in my grip after allowing for the nib in the oblique, also have been trying my best to use the fountain pens I've recently tweaked. One is not up to par yet but the other is light years away from where it was. Eventually I hope to find one (or a few) that has the size and weight I'm looking for, but in the meantime I find I'm not gripping so tight and I'm sure that helps my calligraphy all the way around. How could it not?

 

In retrospect, I know we are our own worst critics, and even the masters probably had moments where they just didn't think the work was good enough.... more frequently then not. If I even get to the point where I'm satisfied, I'll say.... ok, what to improve next? Just like any other hobby or art, there is always more to learn. It is the journey, not the destination!

[sniper910]

crystaltigress, your practice sheet looks great!!

[varejart]

@crystaltigress, you're very good. I just saw your practice sheet. Never ever stop practice.

@Smk, thank you very much! I think you have one of my firsts practice sheets on your message box here in FPN.

[thang1thang2]

  On 8/22/2013 at 4:17 AM, crystaltigress said:

 

In retrospect, I know we are our own worst critics, and even the masters probably had moments where they just didn't think the work was good enough.... more frequently then not. If I even get to the point where I'm satisfied, I'll say.... ok, what to improve next? Just like any other hobby or art, there is always more to learn. It is the journey, not the destination!

 

Funny you should mention that. E.A. Lupfer is widely regarded as one of the best overall penman ever made. Yet when he began to learn, after several weeks Mr. Zaner himself took him aside and said he was willing to refund the entire tuition because he saw no indication of Lupfer ever being able to learn the ornamental script. That's how bad he was. Ouch! He stood his ground and said that he came there to learn. This is the result

 

http://www.zanerian.com/LupferEA%20B&AZanerianStory.jpg

[caliken]

I am occasionally asked for recommendations for the study of "Copperplate" writing.

 

I always start with Dick Jackson's "Copperplate Calligraphy" (out of print but still occasionally available on e-Bay.) I'm self-taught in the style using only this book. I disagree with a few of his ideas, but in general, it's an excellent source of instructional information on Copperplate handwriting.

 

If those interested in taking their studies a stage further, there are two great books which are free and available for download from IAMPETH.

 

Firstly, "The Art of Writing" by John Jenkins c1813 contains IMO the clearest and by far, the most comprehensive instructions in Copperplate writing I've ever seen. The examples are truly beautiful and are remarkably close to the 18th century copperplate ideals.

 

Secondly, "Noyes's Penmanship" by Enoch Noyes, contain's equally beautiful examples. His pages of small (x height 2mm) writing are truly accomplished.

 

I urge anyone interested, to download and print off these two books - they're FREE!

 

Joe Vitolo's drawn engrosser's script on IAMPETH, is very fine indeed and is, in general, close to the original style.

 

In "The Zanerian Manual of Alphabets and Engrossing" the pages by E A Lupfer on "Roundhand or Engrosser's script" display good examples with clear instructions but one deviation which seem out of place to me, is the marked tendency to bend certain downstrokes which does nothing to enhance the style IMO. In fairness, the style is just called 'Roundhand' and no reference is made to its 18th century origin.

 

I haven't included "Madarasz Script" here, because I feel that, fine as it is, the departure from 'classic' Copperplate is too great for inclusion in this listing.

 

Finally, but by no means last, beg borrow, steal or (preferably) buy a copy of George Bickham's "The Universal Penman". It's inexpensive and totally indespensable, in my view.

 

There are other books in my collection, but nothing I can wholeheartedly recommend.

 

There will be, of course, be many I haven't found yet (so much to do - so little time!).

 

Ken

Edited August 25, 2013 by caliken

[varejart]

@caliken Wonderful! I'll just finish the study on Engrosser's Script and then refine it, I am following The Zanerian Manual. After the refinements I'll, FOR SURE, study the English Roundhand which appears in George Bickham's book. Such a wonderful book, I gained a copy, and I highly recomend, too, any calligrapher interested in this style to "steal or (preferably) buy a copy of George Bickham's "The Universal Penman". (I laughed so hard, Ken!)

Ken, when you can, send me a message here. I am interested in your book.

[smk]

Crystaltigress - I wholeheartedly agree with your profound observation regarding the learning process. Success is indeed a journey.

 

Varejart - I do remember your first posts and I'm stoked to see your progress. Looking forward to more inspiring progress from you

 

Salman

[caliken]

  On 8/26/2013 at 2:42 PM, varejart said:

Ken, when you can, send me a message here. I am interested in your book.

Thanks, varejart

 

My books are easily available through my website www.kenfrasercalligrapher.com

[caliken]

http://i226.photobucket.com/albums/dd289/caliken_2007/textforFPN2601-1.jpghttp://i226.photobucket.com/albums/dd289/caliken_2007/WillingtonClark850.jpg

Edited August 27, 2013 by caliken

[caliken]

  On 8/18/2013 at 4:24 PM, varejart said:

Hello guys! This is how my calligraphy looks like after 8 months.

Take a look:

 

The whole alphabet:

http://i1281.photobucket.com/albums/a515/varejart/share_zps2adbb2da.jpg

 

http://i1281.photobucket.com/albums/a515/varejart/share1_zps00339a08.jpg

 

(in these copies were used a Nikko G nib and Moon Palace Sumi Ink)

Beautiful lettering Vareart. You are already accomplished at writing in the E A Lupfer roundhand style via the Zanerian Manual.

 

Ken

Edited August 27, 2013 by caliken