Learning Copperplate...

[caliken]

Salman

 

I've never seen the correct ratio of 2 :1 for the letter o explained in this way before, and its a very useful guide. The letter o is generally chosen as the yardstick for letter proportion.

 

In classic Copperplate, the width of a straight downstroke is 1/5th of the width of a letter, as in the minuscule h for example

 

The example I posted earlier, by Willington Clark, is IMO the ideal for Copperplate.

 

This topic, which you started, is really interesting. The many views expressed are fascinating and you have good insight and grasp of the subject (not to mention an excellent Copperplate hand!)

 

Please keep posting!

 

Ken

Edited February 13, 2011 by caliken

[Ink Sandwich]

This is EXACTLY the kinda thing I've been looking for...I'm a lurker, and I've been following this thread...even ordered "The Universal Penman" last night. Here's the question...I just bought a Pelikan 800 with the EF nib, and while I LOVE the pen, it obviously wasn't designed for Copperplate or Spencerian. Is there a pen that works well for both, as well as being a fine, everyday writing instrument...do I just need a different nib made, if so which one, or an entirely different pen...Additionally, the guide sheet is FABULOUS...

 

You might wanna try the P470 Pelikan Steno.

It's specially designed for writing German shorthand (for which you really need a flexible nib), but it's also a good daily writing instrument. Don't expect it to be as flexible as nibs you use with a nib holder, and the Noodler's flex pen is also slightly more flexible. But I also use it to practice Copperplate, and it you're writing large enough you can see the different strokes.

[Achim]

You might wanna try the P470 Pelikan Steno.

It's specially designed for writing German shorthand (for which you really need a flexible nib), but it's also a good daily writing instrument.

 

I wouldn't recommend it for anything than the intended use. The variation in line width is barely noticable and the pressure needed quite high - just enough for the distinction needed for German shorthand (e.g. if a consonant is written fatter, the preceding vowel is an "a" instead of an "e"). And even for shorthand I prefer a standard 2B pencil.

As a robust monoline workhorse with a fine nib the Steno pen is nice, though - especially since it's quite cheap.

[Ink Sandwich]

^^ Agreed, it is somewhat stiff, even for German shorthand. I could put it to some use however when writing large enough

[Wickwack]

Thanks Ken & Achim for the tip of holding the paper with the slant lines perpendicular to me - I saw a difference immediately! Still not quite right but it's much easier to slant. After doing just a few lessons I can see how important it is to learn all the parts of a letter before jumping right in and writing as if it is standard cursive. I've got a Brause Rose 76 coming in the mail which I'm excited to try.

- I see I need to improve the structure of my outgoing curves. I'm sure this will be quite a work in progress... but what fun along the way!

[fuchsiaprincess]

Today's practise sheet :

http://i1027.photobucket.com/albums/y331/fuchsiaprincess/IMGP2269.jpg

 

Please feel free to critique (bearing in mind I did it with a splitting headache )

[Ghost Plane]

I think you need to look at the width of your letters. They are inconsistent, as are the connectors. Perhaps using Salman's grid would give you a better feel for how many pieces of a letter belong in each area?

[smk]

I haven't had much time to practice lately. I've done 2 sheets since the last post and here's where I'm at for now. These words are written with the strokes learned in the first two lessons:

 

 

 

What have I learned?

1. I need to make the square ended strokes a bit short if I'm going to fix the ends later - fixing the strokes afterwards makes them a bit longer as is evident in the 'm's and 'n's in this exercise. This is more noticeable in the scan than on paper.

 

2. Relaxing the hand helps a lot - especially if you're making the 'o's in one stroke (the second option in Dr. Vitolo's video on 'o')

 

Goals for next lesson

1. Start with lesson 3 from W.A. Baird.

 

2. Pay attention to the square ended strokes.

 

I will appreciate any other pointers.

 

Salman

 

Edit: Please ignore the first line in black as that was a warmup exercise.

Edited February 15, 2011 by smk

[smk]

Thanks Ken & Achim for the tip of holding the paper with the slant lines perpendicular to me - I saw a difference immediately! Still not quite right but it's much easier to slant. After doing just a few lessons I can see how important it is to learn all the parts of a letter before jumping right in and writing as if it is standard cursive. I've got a Brause Rose 76 coming in the mail which I'm excited to try.

- I see I need to improve the structure of my outgoing curves. I'm sure this will be quite a work in progress... but what fun along the way!

 

This shows good progress Rhea. If I may suggest, I think at this point another hour or so of the basic drill that Ken posted will help solidify your basic skills. You show much more control now compared to when you started, its time to put this control to good use.

 

I want some of those Brause Rose 76'ers too! Have to wait for a bit though. I guess I'll give myself a present when I learn the miniscules and will attack the majuscules with fresh and sharp Rose 76'ers :-)

 

Salman

[smk]

Today's practise sheet :

 

Please feel free to critique (bearing in mind I did it with a splitting headache )

 

Aha - nice forms there Soki. I found that consistency in the slant will fix a lot of problems. What helped me a lot was to follow Ken's advice from another post on how to keep the slant consistent - he advised that if you rotate the paper anti-clockwise until the slant guides are perpendicular to your body you'll find it easier to keep the slant consistent. This is mentioned by Achim in this post as well. I rotate my paper about 5 degrees more to get a consistent and natural slant angle for my hand.

 

I believe the inconsistent width that GP noticed is mainly due to the variation in the slant. If you notice the wider letters are the ones that are more upright.

 

The transitions and compound curves are nice. And those hairlines are very delicately done - beautiful.

 

Salman

[smk]

Salman

 

I've never seen the correct ratio of 2 :1 for the letter o explained in this way before, and its a very useful guide. The letter o is generally chosen as the yardstick for letter proportion.

 

In classic Copperplate, the width of a straight downstroke is 1/5th of the width of a letter, as in the minuscule h for example

 

The example I posted earlier, by Willington Clark, is IMO the ideal for Copperplate.

 

This topic, which you started, is really interesting. The many views expressed are fascinating and you have good insight and grasp of the subject (not to mention an excellent Copperplate hand!)

 

Please keep posting!

 

Ken

 

Thank you Ken.

 

I was hoping to generate some interest and I'm glad to see the participation. Its inspiring to see the progress everyone is making. The beautiful examples by Achim are motivating in their own right.

 

The Willington Clark example you posted is breathtaking. I find that I'm beginning to notice the nuances in various hands now more than before - and I've barely scratched the surface. I'm going to try and get a copy of 'The Universal Penman' as you suggested.

 

Salman

[fuchsiaprincess]

Ghost and Salman,

 

Thank you very much! I shall continue to work on my width and slant. Your powers of observation are amazing I shall try Ken's tip on rotating the paper.

 

I think I might print my next lot of grids on a smoother paper. The G Lalo cotton paper is really nice, but the nib still catches, even though I'm becoming better at controlling the amount of pressure that I use.

 

Yes, practise time is at a premium. That's why I did a quick session last night in spite of my headache.

 

Warm regards,

Soki

[Ghost Plane]

Salman,

In your next to last line, the letters are noticeably of different heights. I'm not sure why, but the ripple effect is unusually noticeable on that line and, to a lesser extent, the last.

 

The width looks fairly uniform to my amateur eye.

 

Soki,

Try some really smooth paper - perhaps Clairefontaine. I have trouble on Lalo paper with my IB, Delta stubs, and OB nibs similar to what you describe [except that I haven't broken a nib]. They simply catch in the grain of the fibers.

[fuchsiaprincess]

Salman,

In your next to last line, the letters are noticeably of different heights. I'm not sure why, but the ripple effect is unusually noticeable on that line and, to a lesser extent, the last.

 

The width looks fairly uniform to my amateur eye.

 

Soki,

Try some really smooth paper - perhaps Clairefontaine. I have trouble on Lalo paper with my IB, Delta stubs, and OB nibs similar to what you describe [except that I haven't broken a nib]. They simply catch in the grain of the fibers.

 

Thanks, Ghost! I shall try that.

 

BTW, I don't think it's Salman's fault - in Copperplate, the loop of the 's' is written above the line, thus making it look taller than the rest of the letters.

 

Warmest regards,

Soki

[Ghost Plane]

Ah, but is the base of the C supposed to be above the other letters? That's what gives the rippled appearance to my eyes. Perhaps I look more at the base of the letters?

[smk]

Ah, but is the base of the C supposed to be above the other letters? That's what gives the rippled appearance to my eyes. Perhaps I look more at the base of the letters?

 

Good observation GP - no the 'c' is not supposed to be any higher than the other letters.

 

In this exercise I went back and touched up the strokes that are supposed to end squared off. I made them a bit longer than they were supposed to be in doing this which resulted in the uneven baseline. This is very much noticeable in the last word (more) in the exercise where the first two strokes of the 'm' and the stem of the 'r' protrude beneath the baseline.

 

I will leave them a bit short from now on to allow for retouching - or better yet, I should practice to get them right in the first go!

 

Salman

[Achim]

Done after work this evening - already quite tired and it shows. Just some old anarcho-patter for fun. And don't panic - I'll stop posting examples for a while now, since this won't get much better fast (but hopefully steadily).

 

[caliken]

Done after work this evening - already quite tired and it shows. Just some old anarcho-patter for fun. And don't panic - I'll stop posting examples for a while now, since this won't get much better fast (but hopefully steadily).

 

 

Nice work, Achim. Good parallel strokes with evenly balanced weight. Of the letter construction, I particularly like (at random) the 'g' of 'giraffe' : the 'f' & 'm' of 'form' : the 'n' of 'never' : the word 'never' : etc.

 

Please keep posting.

 

I thought I'd throw this contribution of Copperplate handwriting (as opposed to carefully written script) into the mix.

Nothing special - just an attempt to show how Copperplate handwriting can work with a fairly large piece of text, admittedly written more slowly than in Italic, for example.

 

caliken

 

http://i226.photobucket.com/albums/dd289/caliken_2007/ThanksgivingProclamation910.jpg

Edited February 17, 2011 by caliken

[caliken]

 

IMO this shows a considerable improvement since your first posting, with some beautifully formed letters.

 

Ken

[bigstick]

Oh, Ken wyes instead of thorns?