Learning Copperplate...

[jon14]

My copperplate leaves a lot to be desired but when I compare it to where I started, I'm encouraged! When I look back at my first attempts, I think 'wow, they're terrible'. Trouble is, at the time I thought they were great. Similar story here I think!

[smk]

Even though this thread is a bit intimidating considering the quality of many posts and samples of Copperplate, I thought I'd give it a shot and post what I've written a couple of hours ago. (Sorry for the bad quality, I only have a cell phone).

 

 

Thank you for sharing your Copperplate. Now that you have posted one we would be looking forward to more from you. What x-height is this written at. I find writing smaller than about 4mm quite hard.

 

... when I compare it to where I started, I'm encouraged! When I look back at my first attempts, I think 'wow, they're terrible'. Trouble is, at the time I thought they were great. Similar story here I think!

 

I believe this is the process most of us go through. There are two parallel skills being developed, the ability to execute and the ability to 'see'. The latter being one's ability to understand the nuances of a script and in my opinion is the harder of the two to develop - at least for me. I do quite enjoy the A'ha moments along the way though.

 

Salman

[Columba Livia]

A plate from a cyclopedia printed in 1880. The classifications may be useful and the flowing grace line capitals I find very elegant with their light shades and a 45 degree slant! The upper ones are 60 degrees. The "grace line", esp. with the ovals at the end could be compared to the capital stems in Spencerian, thought they are not exactly the same.

 

http://i.imgur.com/s34JS.jpg

Edited March 2, 2012 by Columba Livia

[robynsnest]

Where do most of you buy your materials? Thank you.

[Mickey]

Where do most of you buy your materials? Thank you.

 

Two excellent sources:

 

http://www.johnnealbooks.com/

 

http://www.paperinkarts.com/

 

 

Welcome to the neighborhood.

[Bierce]

 

I haven't set aside a whole lot of time to practice lately, but am trying to get back to work on this hand. This sample done with 303 and straight Eternal. I've been working on trying to get pressure consistent, which is a bit more difficult than it might seem it should be. I much favor the current production 303 for this hand, but as others have related, you really need to concentrate to get that thing under control, and not spray on the ups. Light pressure on the ups is the trick; like almost nonexistent.

 

There are just so many dynamics in play with this hand- from paper, ink, pen, pressure, my state of mind, etc, it can be a bit mind numbing. I am however finding over time that I'm whittling down all the seemingly endless options into a set of parameters that work best for my particular approach and quirks of technique.

[smk]

Bierce - its always a joy to see your contribution. The freedom you exhibit in the flowing flourishing strokes is most attractive.

 

The 303 is a bit tricky but so rewarding when you get it right. I have been given an old-style 404 that is a bit more flexible than the current production blue ones that I could not warm up to. Here's the nib in action - (written in response to somebody's question about the kinds of scripts written with an oblique nib in the Pen Turning & Making section - and yes, I messed up the 'g' :embarrassed_smile: ):

 

 

Salman

Edited March 30, 2012 by smk

[willingness]

That is great, as more and more peaple in our country loving copperplate ,Gothic ,while there have no formal and good Guide to learn it，this text is useful，thank you...

[caliken]

This little example of Copperplate handwriting, is from my book.

 

Ken

 

http://i226.photobucket.com/albums/dd289/caliken_2007/Copperplateexample900.jpg

[Columba Livia]

I'm learning copperplate handwriting (technically I believe it would be an angular running hand).

 

The set of materials I'm using for working through this set of lessons are the Gillott 303, a straight penholder, diamine registrars ink and Conqueror diamond white wove. No guidelines or slantlines are used, the paper is not slanted and the pen is lifted off the paper as little as is possible.

 

The slant used in the manual I'm learning from ("The Art of Writing", Cooper, 1860) is 35 degrees! Though I must say I do not have the manual itself, only photocopies of the plates and print-outs of the text.

 

This is copy line 25 of the eighth lesson.

 

http://i.imgur.com/3Lf7F.jpg

[caliken]

I echo these sentiments, posted by beachwalker, and copied over from another thread, today.

 

Speaking of the "Learning Copperplate" thread, I cannot encourage you enough to spend the time it takes to go through all 17 pages - carefully, taking notes along the way. Salman (SMK), who commented to you above, has become a master, if not of the technique (I think he is) then certainly of guiding folks along the way in that thread. It's my hope that that thread remains alive, especially now that I'm pretty close to climbing aboard - as you should as well.

Let's see if we can keep that thread going - there must be more of us who are beginning - or close to beginning - that can learn from that thread AND EACH OTHER and add to it as we go along. I look forward to seeing more of your work, and I promise to share my efforts - perhaps we can meet 'over there.'

Edited June 8, 2012 by caliken

[caliken]

Here's another contribution to help to keep the Copperplate pot boiling.

 

Ken

 

http://i226.photobucket.com/albums/dd289/caliken_2007/goldframe1602.jpg

Edited June 8, 2012 by caliken

[smk]

I echo these sentiments, posted by beachwalker, and copied over from another thread, today.

 

Wow - you just made my day Ken.

 

I'm glad that a record of the collaborative learning effort is helpful to others. You have provided inspiration and guidance that has helped keep us progressing in the right direction. I do hope others take advantage of whats already there and add to the knowledge base.

 

Regards,

Salman

[Najdorf]

-

Edited June 11, 2012 by Najdorf

[beachwalker]

It's time to commit - after taking a basic course in Copperplate this past April, and after spending countless hours going over videos on line, and so many of the prior entries in this thread, and in just flat out practicing, I think I've reached the point of wanting to expose my efforts to this group, knowing that guidance will be given with the best of intentions. I've been amazed at what Salman (SMK) has accopmlished since his first post in this thread that began so simply. And I'me awed by the consistency in guidance that both Salman and Caliken, and so many others, have shared here. So, here goes.

 

My equipment, for the present, is as basic as you can get (John Neal order on the way for more nibs and holders). The only holder I have, for now, is the basic Speedball oblique holder, and my nib is a Hunt's 103. My paper, so far, is from a smooth surface drawing pad (9x12, from Utrecht Art Supply) and the ratio that I have been using is 2:1:2, rather than the 3:2:3 - it's what I started with and haven't seen the need (or had the courage) yet to shift and try something different. My x height is 1/4 inch, and the ink is Higgens Eternal, gum arabic added.

 

My biggest concern is the shakyness evident in laying down the strokes - I'm not sure it's age, or too much coffee, or trying to do something requiring such fine motor skills after doing something quite different - like chopping wood. I'm a painter and avid sketcher, and haven't had any issues with hand steadiness there, so far (knock on wood), so I'm hoping that, with lots of practice it's something I can over come. Otherwise, there are lots of issues. On the attached there are some arrows pointing to issues - not reaching the top and bottom lines, sloppy ending downstrokes, etc. A couple of things that I've tried hard to mind are maintaining the slope and using the proportions for lower case given by Caliken earlier in this thread. What I'd really like is some sense of any proportions used in the upper case - for example, in Caliken's Sheraton Tea post just above, there are two 'T's, with a slightly different sizing/style on each, but both have roughly the same proportions as the other capital letters - is it a matter of just develping a feel for what seems right for the project, or is there some guiding proportion to keep in mind?

 

Hope that this threat keeps going forward - it would be a real shame to have it end, only to be restarted, to cover the same ground, in the future. Thanks for you assistance.

 

John

Edited June 12, 2012 by beachwalker

[eduardp]

My biggest concern is the shakyness evident in laying down the strokes - I'm not sure it's age, or too much coffee, or trying to do something requiring such fine motor skills after doing something quite different - like chopping wood. I'm a painter and avid sketcher, and haven't had any issues with hand steadiness there, so far (knock on wood), so I'm hoping that, with lots of practice it's something I can over come. Otherwise, there are lots of issues. On the attached there are some arrows pointing to issues - not reaching the top and bottom lines, sloppy ending downstrokes, etc. A couple of things that I've tried hard to mind are maintaining the slope and using the proportions for lower case given by Caliken earlier in this thread. What I'd really like is some sense of any proportions used in the upper case - for example, in Caliken's Sheraton Tea post just above, there are two 'T's, with a slightly different sizing/style on each, but both have roughly the same proportions as the other capital letters - is it a matter of just develping a feel for what seems right for the project, or is there some guiding proportion to keep in mind?

 

 

Although I'm in no position to give advice as I'm only starting my way in Copperplate, I'm also struggling with the shakiness and the steadiness of the strokes and I've observed it only when I used a bigger height (I'm using 8mm now to be clearer). The solution, not "mastered" yet, is something I've learned when I've taken some piano lessons and I was struggling in learning to read the music sheets - you don't have to read the note you're actually playing, but read forward at least one measure. I did not mastered this on piano, that's one of the reason I'm still at a child level, but I've seen it's working on writing too. When I'm to obsessed of making the lines perfect it is a mess, when I just let them flow and not care so much of what I'm doing and just looking on what it is supposed to be the result is much better. It work in 5-10% of cases, but hope to get better. :embarrassed_smile:

 

Anyhow nice start.

[ljkd13]

It's time to commit - after taking a basic course in Copperplate this past April, and after spending countless hours going over videos on line, and so many of the prior entries in this thread, and in just flat out practicing, I think I've reached the point of wanting to expose my efforts to this group, knowing that guidance will be given with the best of intentions. I've been amazed at what Salman (SMK) has accopmlished since his first post in this thread that began so simply. And I'me awed by the consistency in guidance that both Salman and Caliken, and so many others, have shared here. So, here goes.

 

My equipment, for the present, is as basic as you can get (John Neal order on the way for more nibs and holders). The only holder I have, for now, is the basic Speedball oblique holder, and my nib is a Hunt's 103. My paper, so far, is from a smooth surface drawing pad (9x12, from Utrecht Art Supply) and the ratio that I have been using is 2:1:2, rather than the 3:2:3 - it's what I started with and haven't seen the need (or had the courage) yet to shift and try something different. My x height is 1/4 inch, and the ink is Higgens Eternal, gum arabic added.

 

My biggest concern is the shakyness evident in laying down the strokes - I'm not sure it's age, or too much coffee, or trying to do something requiring such fine motor skills after doing something quite different - like chopping wood. I'm a painter and avid sketcher, and haven't had any issues with hand steadiness there, so far (knock on wood), so I'm hoping that, with lots of practice it's something I can over come. Otherwise, there are lots of issues. On the attached there are some arrows pointing to issues - not reaching the top and bottom lines, sloppy ending downstrokes, etc. A couple of things that I've tried hard to mind are maintaining the slope and using the proportions for lower case given by Caliken earlier in this thread. What I'd really like is some sense of any proportions used in the upper case - for example, in Caliken's Sheraton Tea post just above, there are two 'T's, with a slightly different sizing/style on each, but both have roughly the same proportions as the other capital letters - is it a matter of just develping a feel for what seems right for the project, or is there some guiding proportion to keep in mind?

 

Hope that this threat keeps going forward - it would be a real shame to have it end, only to be restarted, to cover the same ground, in the future. Thanks for you assistance.

 

John

 

The shakiness goes away with time. The more muscle memory you have and the more confidence you have making the letters, the more smooth they will be. I found, when I was learning, that when I had to think about how to make the letter, it was invariably a bit shaky and awkward. Once you intuitively know what the letter looks like, your movements become much more fluid.

 

Your writing looks like a good start. The more you write, the more you will refine each letter. Pay close attention to the little details, like where each line starts and where curves break. A good way to think about copperplate is that all of the lines parallel with your vertical guide lines on the down-stroke should be shaded, giving it the consistency it needs. If it helps, make more parallel guides so you can make sure your large and small letters all fall directly on the line. All of your letters seem a bit more upright than your lines. Extra guides would help this.

 

Another thing to consider is how many strokes each letter is. This is not like spencerian where its meant to be fast and flowy - this is more deliberate. I write "d", for example, as an o, then the ascender, starting top down to finish the letter in 2 strokes.

 

Keep practicing - you're on your way!

[Najdorf]

Im also in the process, still in the minuscule though,

its all about the practice i guess.

for shakeiness i usually imagine the whole route of the pen for every letter somehow it flows better.

lots of mistakes... but it somehow coming together slowly

http://img403.imageshack.us/img403/1668/8copyg.jpg

Edited June 12, 2012 by Najdorf

[smk]

John - its good to have you on board.

 

The solution, not "mastered" yet, is something I've learned when I've taken some piano lessons and I was struggling in learning to read the music sheets - you don't have to read the note you're actually playing, but read forward at least one measure.

 

 

Another thing to consider is how many strokes each letter is. This is not like spencerian where its meant to be fast and flowy - this is more deliberate. I write "d", for example, as an o, then the ascender, starting top down to finish the letter in 2 strokes.

 

That's good advice. Something that works for me with long strokes is to put the pen down at the beginning of the stroke and then look at the point where I want to end up, I bring the pen down to that point while continuing to focus on the end point. It works surprisingly well - trust yourself and draw the line confidently down to where you're looking at.

 

As for the letters being a combination of basic strokes - this is exactly right. I benefited a lot from practicing the basic strokes first. It wasn't apparent immediately but things started falling into place after a while. I don't think one can stress the importance of practicing the basic strokes enough - it's what the letters are made of after all :-)

 

I believe you'll benefit greatly from spending some time on the basic strokes Ken (caliken) suggested on the first page of this thread. It helps not only with control but also in the ability to identify the proper shape and placement of the shades (i.e. the thick parts).

 

Salman

[smk]

Im also in the process, still in the minuscule though,

its all about the practice i guess.

for shakeiness i usually imagine the whole route of the pen for every letter somehow it flows better.

lots of mistakes... but it somehow coming together slowly

 

This shows good control IMO. It took me a while to get to the point where I could see the letter before putting down the stroke.

 

I'm excited that this thread is alive again - gives me an incentive to start working at it again :-)

 

Salman