Learning Copperplate...

[Dueller]

Many thanks Ken,

 

I have read so many of the IAMPETH guides that i must have crossed wires somewhere. Using my forearm as a rest/guide and using my wrist and fingers makes it much easier to control the pen

 

Lee

[smk]

Ok - my first attempt at lesson 2. I'm getting the hang of it a bit now - the strokes are more fluid than before and I seem to have finally accepted the slant :-) I was experimenting with my pen hold a little during this exercise so there are a few places that are out of whack.

 

 

What did I learn?

1. There is a sort of a rhythm to the curved weight strokes as the nib comes around, pressure is applied, then released and swing in to the bottom curve. Its lovely when you get it right - which for me is not very often :-( .....yet!

 

2. Patience pays - when I pay attention and imagine what I want to do, like almost seeing the stroke on paper before I draw it, I get excellent results.

 

Goals for next lesson:

1. Get the forms right.

2. Slant control is better but not perfect - this should be bang on by the end of this exercise.

[smk]

Some of the FPN'ers may know this already - After I started this thread here, I was asked to start a parallel thread on another forum (wetcanvas.com) as well. I got some excellent advice on that forum from an accomplished Calligrapher on the proportions of Copperplate letters that I thought I should share with you all.

 

I'm not sure if I'll be able to explain it properly but I'll give it a try anyway. Here's a link to the original post: Proportions in Copperplate

 

After choosing the letter height (x-height), draw your slant guides such that in any two adjacent slant lines the left slant line intersect the waist line perpendicularly above the point where the right slant line intersects the base line. The resulting parallelogram is the width of the letter and connectors.

 

I have prepared a guide sheet according to this advice and am attaching it here for anyone who might wish to use it.

 

CuPl8-guide2-6mm-55deg.pdf

 

This may have been explained elsewhere and I might have just missed it until now but it was enlightening enough for me that I thought I should share it.

 

Happy Practicing,

Salman

[Ghost Plane]

Makes sense to me...

[smk]

BTW, which lessons are you following? I have printed Baird's lesson, but haven't commenced them yet. Still just playing with the practice sheet that Ken provided, until I'm comfortable with the control.

 

I'm going with the lessons as laid out in the manual but do take liberties and play around a bit when it gets too frustrating :-) I think I'm getting a bit more disciplined now. The first lesson in the Baird set is very similar to the one Ken suggested.

 

 

And Salman, I really admire your organised approach to the lessons

 

 

Thank you Soki - I find that if I set manageable goals for myself I'm much more likely to achieve them thus getting a sense of accomplishment as I go along. I hope to string enough of these together to get somewhere with my efforts.

 

Regards,

Salman

[bigstick]

Some of the FPN'ers may know this already - After I started this thread here, I was asked to start a parallel thread on another forum (wetcanvas.com) as well. I got some excellent advice on that forum from an accomplished Calligrapher on the proportions of Copperplate letters that I thought I should share with you all.

 

I'm not sure if I'll be able to explain it properly but I'll give it a try anyway. Here's a link to the original post: Proportions in Copperplate

 

After choosing the letter height (x-height), draw your slant guides such that in any two adjacent slant lines the left slant line intersect the waist line perpendicularly above the point where the right slant line intersects the base line. The resulting parallelogram is the width of the letter and connectors.

 

I have prepared a guide sheet according to this advice and am attaching it here for anyone who might wish to use it.

 

CuPl8-guide2-6mm-55deg.pdf

 

This may have been explained elsewhere and I might have just missed it until now but it was enlightening enough for me that I thought I should share it.

 

Happy Practicing,

Salman

 

The practice sheet looks odd to me, and I know why. Your ascenders and descenders are the same size as x-height. My sources told me to use 1.5x X-height for these spaces, so my guidelines were spaced 9mm-6mm-9mm apart.

[Wickwack]

"The practice sheet looks odd to me, and I know why. Your ascenders and descenders are the same size as x-height. My sources told me to use 1.5x X-height for these spaces, so my guidelines were spaced 9mm-6mm-9mm apart"

 

I agree, my book also states it should always be a ratio of 3:2:3 - that is the proportion of classically balanced miniscule letters. I suppose it just depends on which form you feel more comfortable with...

Edit: Mastering Copperplate Calligraphy" by Eleanor Winters

Edited February 12, 2011 by Wickwack

[caliken]

My sources told me to use 1.5x X-height for these spaces, so my guidelines were spaced 9mm-6mm-9mm apart"

I agree, my book also states it should always be a ratio of 3:2:3 - that is the proportion of classically balanced miniscule letters.

 

+1

[fuchsiaprincess]

Soki,

 

It's looking good and you're making excellent progress.

 

Just a couple of points which may help. Your shaded downstrokes are a bit heavy for Copperplate letters at that size. If you try lighter-weight shaded strokes, it'll look better and will be easier to control consistently (and your nibs will last longer!)

 

When you come to write letters with ascenders and descenders, if you leave two blank lines between the lines of writing, there will be room for the ascenders and descenders without clashing or overlapping.

 

Upstroke hairlines should be formed with the lightest possible touch - just the weight of the nib on the paper is sufficient.

 

Please excuse me if I am stating the obvious, but there may be some who are just starting out who are new to all this. :embarrassed_smile:

 

 

Thank you very much, Ken! Any tips and critique is much appreciated.

 

I shall try to be much lighter with my pressure. I think I applied the amount of pressure I did because I couldn't get the ink to 'travel' down the tines (if that makes sense).

 

Back to my desk now …..

 

Warm regards,

Soki

 

PS - Salman, terribly sorry that I attributed the grid to Ken; Just realised that you shared it with us. Thank you! Love your work!

[Dueller]

 

 

The resulting parallelogram is the width of the letter and connectors.

 

 

 

Happy Practicing,

Salman

 

Have not tried this yet but it would seem that you would have to fit a wide letter like W into the same space as a thin letter like I or the other way round.

 

I am a journeyman printer, and worked on "hot metal" ie. the little lead letters we used to assemble by hand to make a page and fitting an I onto the same space as a W would give a lot of "white" either side.

 

When you try it could you post a picture and prove me wrong as it would seem to be a much easier way to layout text.

 

Lee

[caliken]

Have not tried this yet but it would seem that you would have to fit a wide letter like W into the same space as a thin letter like I or the other way round.

 

I am a journeyman printer, and worked on "hot metal" ie. the little lead letters we used to assemble by hand to make a page and fitting an I onto the same space as a W would give a lot of "white" either side.

 

When you try it could you post a picture and prove me wrong as it would seem to be a much easier way to layout text.

 

Lee

 

I agree with Lee.

 

The proportions of the minuscule letter o have traditionally been the basis for overall letter construction. As in this exemplary piece of lettering by Willington Clark, the minuscule o is about 2 : 1 ratio. The width of the other letters, the stroke width and the inter-letter spacing, are assessed by eye.

 

http://i226.photobucket.com/albums/dd289/caliken_2007/WillingtonClarkx900.jpg

 

Ken

Edited February 13, 2011 by caliken

[Achim]

My sources told me to use 1.5x X-height for these spaces, so my guidelines were spaced 9mm-6mm-9mm apart"

I agree, my book also states it should always be a ratio of 3:2:3 - that is the proportion of classically balanced miniscule letters.

 

 

That explains that my letters look so condensed - the Dick Jackson templates use about 2:1:2. I made some templates with 9-6-9 mm and will try that (I guess it's easier since the difficult upstrokes for "b", "l" etc. don't have to be that long). Attached are PDFs of the guide sheets - one in light blue to print directly on your writing paper, the other one in black with thicker lines to use under the paper. For the quite opaque 100g paper it's easier on the eyes to print the thin blue lines directly.

 

Achim.

Copperplate 9-6-9mm blue.pdf

Copperplate 9-6-9mm fat black.pdf

[Wickwack]

Here are my next samples. I'm finding it hardest to keep my slant. I think once I get that mastered, the formations will come easier.

 

These are the guidesheets I copied onto Staples Fine Laser Paper / 25% cotton / 32lb

http://www.iampeth.com/lessons/guidesheets/Copperplate%20practice%20sheets%20by%20RBH.pdf

[Achim]

Here's today's work with the newly sized guidelines with 6mm x-height. This time using a Leonardt Principal nib in a Century oblique penholder (except the second part of the first page, which was done with an Esterbrook 356 as marked). 50% of original A4 size.

 

 

I even tried some capitals in a bout of overestimating myself, omg those are difficult (especially the "E", I couldn't get the right overall slant) - but fun to do nevertheless!

 

 

Best, Achim.

[Achim]

Here are my next samples. I'm finding it hardest to keep my slant. I think once I get that mastered, the formations will come easier.

 

Ken had a tip that works quite well for me: turn the paper to the left so that the slant line lies perpendicular to yourself (i.e. 35° to the left in the case of Copperplate, 38° for Spencerian). Now you "only" have to drag the nib towards you to have the right slant.

[Dueller]

While praticing, don't for get to take breaks and stop as soon as you get slightly tired. I have found that as soon as my arm gets a bit tired, the quality begins to drop and that can be a bit depressing. It's not that you are "not achieving" it's just overdoing it is the cause of many problems.

 

Stop and have a nice cup of tea or coffee.

 

Lee

[Wickwack]

Here are my next samples. I'm finding it hardest to keep my slant. I think once I get that mastered, the formations will come easier.

 

Ken had a tip that works quite well for me: turn the paper to the left so that the slant line lies perpendicular to yourself (i.e. 35° to the left in the case of Copperplate, 38° for Spencerian). Now you "only" have to drag the nib towards you to have the right slant.

Thanks! I'll certainly try that, your work is phenomenal! Between you and Ken we all here have a great benefit of your talents - look what I found for making your own custom guidesheets:

 

http://www.scribblers.co.uk/acatalog/Guideline_Generator.html

[smk]

The practice sheet looks odd to me, and I know why. Your ascenders and descenders are the same size as x-height. My sources told me to use 1.5x X-height for these spaces, so my guidelines were spaced 9mm-6mm-9mm apart.

 

I do have the lines spaced evenly at 6mm. This is according to the guide sheets provided by Dr. Vitolo on iampeth.com (here) for his tutorials. Since I had decided to use his video lessons for guidance in forming letters I simply copied his line spacing. He draws the ascenders and descender to just shy of two line spaces above and below.

 

The recommended scale I have seen for Copperplate is a ratio of 3:2:3. However, there are some available on iampeth.com with different ratios of x-height to ascenders and descenders. The guide sheet Wickwack has downloaded from iampeth.com (and shown above) has guidelines that have the ascenders and descenders at two, three and four times the x-height all on the same sheet.

 

I guess I should have explained this with the guide sheet. Sorry for causing any confusion.

 

Salman

[Wickwack]

:clap1:

Here's today's work with the newly sized guidelines with 6mm x-height. This time using a Leonardt Principal nib in a Century oblique penholder (except the second part of the first page, which was done with an Esterbrook 356 as marked). 50% of original A4 size.

 

 

I even tried some capitals in a bout of overestimating myself, omg those are difficult (especially the "E", I couldn't get the right overall slant) - but fun to do nevertheless!

 

 

Best, Achim.

[smk]

 

The resulting parallelogram is the width of the letter and connectors.

 

 

Have not tried this yet but it would seem that you would have to fit a wide letter like W into the same space as a thin letter like I or the other way round.

 

I am a journeyman printer, and worked on "hot metal" ie. the little lead letters we used to assemble by hand to make a page and fitting an I onto the same space as a W would give a lot of "white" either side.

 

When you try it could you post a picture and prove me wrong as it would seem to be a much easier way to layout text.

 

Lee

 

My mistake - I didn't quite explain it right. The original post talks about the space as the counter (the inside space of a letter) as the size of the parallelogram so the letter 'o' and 'i' would be one of these parallelograms, the letter 'n' would take two, the 'm' three. The 'w' would take two of the parallelograms.

 

This is guidance for helping with getting a sense of the letter shape when starting out. There are other guidelines as well as Ken has noted above in his post. I am merely sharing what I thought was useful information with the best intentions.

 

Salman