Learning Copperplate...

[caliken]

Ken, I compared the miniscules in the Winters book to those in the Universal Penman book, and I think I know exactly what you are talking about. In the Winters book, she instructs to make the exit strokes rounded, and ending up parallel to the shaded stroke. Its almost like a perfect "u" shape, but on a 55 degree slant. See my last line, where I wrote the entire alphabet (unjoined), and look at the exit strokes of the l, m, and n. They end up parallel to the 55 degree slant, but in the Bickham examples they flatten out a bit before joining the next letter.

That's it, exactly.

 

IMO it's much better to take your exemplars from the original source i.e. The Universal Penman.

 

Ken

[caliken]

Also, I really need to order an oblique penholder. Is there a recommended one, or are they all about the same? I saw some on John Neal that looked nice, but don't really know what the differences are.

Brian

 

Whichever one you choose, it should have an adjustable flange so that you can make subtle modifications to suit your hand.

 

http://www.iampeth.com/videos/pages/vitolo_adjusting_the_flange.htm

 

You're in for a pleasant surprise. Writing Copperplate with an oblique holder, is so much easier.

 

Ken

Edited November 2, 2011 by caliken

[Mickey]

When I'm too lazy to go get the Windex, I'll stick a nib in my mouth to remove the oil, but I don't recommend it.

 

I am equally lazy and do the same, but I do recommend it!......works every time.

 

Ken

 

Absolutely, (much better than Windex) but living in America, where every 3rd person seems to be an attorney, I'm happy to provide information, but more careful giving recommendations.

Edited November 2, 2011 by Mickey

[gibsona9]

Thanks for the nib prep tips.... I am lazy too, and even before reading the "saliva" recommendations, that's the route I chose! Seemed to work, but it left a bitter taste in my mouth (literally)! Not bad, though, and super easy.

 

I suppose my next task is to work on letter joins and spacing, although I confess I am sorely tempted to move on to Uppercase letters. I'd like to get at least one version of each letter ingrained in my brain, so that I have something to fall back on if I'm ever writing and don't have a good example handy.

 

And what I really want to work on is flourishes... Mine are TERRIBLE (not even gonna post the few I've tried). Is it true that letters are more finger-motion, and flourishes are more arm-motion with fixed fingers? But I will be a good boy and hold off....first things first!

 

Can't wait to try the Estie nibs (in the mail from *bay) and the oblique holder (in the mail from Soki -- thanks!).

 

One other thing... I saw this on the web last night: some "official" calligraphy from the White House. Seems that this style is a bit more compressed laterally than the Bickham standard. I really love the look of it, though. The not-quite-joined-strokes look is kind of interesting, too.

 

[caliken]

I saw this on the web last night: some "official" calligraphy from the White House. Seems that this style is a bit more compressed laterally than the Bickham standard. I really love the look of it, though. The not-quite-joined-strokes look is kind of interesting, too.

 

Upward hairlines are sometimes detached from the main body of a letter to avoid dragging out wet ink.

In this case, the calligrapher has taken this practice to extremes and has detached every hairline upstroke which might carry ink from a shaded stroke. There are 13 penlifts in the word 'country' alone!

 

This is an American Engrosser's or Engraver's script which is a drawn form of Copperplate and is attractive in its own right.

 

However...if the second line (beginning with 'nation') is taken to be correct, then the first line is compressed slightly and the third line is extended to justify the writing to both left and right. Look at the 'tion' of recognition and compare it with the 'tion' of consecration and you'll see what I mean. Also, to achieve justification, the inter-word spacing in the first line, is too tight.

I know that this is a common practice but I prefer to produce writing as evenly as I can, and let the justification take care of itself.....just my personal preference.

 

Ken

Edited November 3, 2011 by caliken

[caliken]

And what I really want to work on is flourishes... Mine are TERRIBLE (not even gonna post the few I've tried). Is it true that letters are more finger-motion, and flourishes are more arm-motion with fixed fingers?

 

That's certainly the case with me - finger writing with small lettering, moving gradually through combined movement as the lettering gets larger and finally, flourishing with arm movement only, with fixed fingers and wrist, just as though the pen is an extension of my arm. Flourishing is a form of drawing.

 

Ken

[jon14]

This was my attempt at flourishing - definitely too much finger movement and not enough 'arms'. The left hand flourish was spoiled by an inexplicable ink flow problem!

[gibsona9]

Two things:

 

1) Jon14, it is very nice, I like it! Flourishes are very difficult, for me anyway. I realize that arm movement should help smooth out the curves, but for me it ain't happenin yet, ha!

 

2) I ordered a lot of 10 Esterbrook 357 dip nibs from *bay, and they arrived today! Tested one out, and it seems to be superb for Copperplate, as many have said in various articles. Nice hairline, nice "snap" back from shade to hairline. Can't wait to receive the loaner oblique penholders that Soki was kind enough to drop in the mail! Woo hoo!

 

Have a great weekend,

Brian

[fuchsiaprincess]

Haven't practised in ages… so I'm living vicariously through your practise, Brian

 

I wrote this today, as a small gift to a friend who has recently lost her mum :

 

http://i1027.photobucket.com/albums/y331/fuchsiaprincess/Thess413-18.jpg

 

 

Pen : Wahl Eversharp Decoband

Ink : Diamine Meadow

Paper : Tudor "Parchment"

 

 

So, it's not really Copperplate written with an oblique pen-holder, but thought I'd share it with you guys anyway.

 

Regards,

Soki

[caliken]

Soki,

 

This is a good demonstration of how conventional study of an historic script, can be well developed into personal handwriting.

 

The result is beautifully balanced throughout, with perfect control over slope consistency - most attractive.

 

Well done & thanks for posting!

 

Ken

Edited November 6, 2011 by caliken

[Hex]

Very nice Soki and thanks for posting the details about pen, ink, etc.

I was wondering how you did it.

I would treasure something like that forever, and I am sure your friend is very comforted.

[gibsona9]

Soki,

 

Wonderful verse, wonderfully executed -- I'm sure it will be a great comfort to your friend in her "time of need".

 

As a fellow believer, I hope to use my calligraphy in similar ways -- solo deo gloria!

 

Brian

 

PS - Look forward to getting the oblique holders!!! I'll PM you when they arrive...

[fuchsiaprincess]

Thank you very much for the compliments, everyone!

 

Ken, you are absolutely correct. Despite not having practised my Copperplate formally with an oblique penholder, I have indeed been using it when writing with my flexible FPs.

 

Warm regards,

Soki

[hlyuqi]

Long time no see,everyone!I've been busy before,but I didn't stop writing.And this is my latest practice of Engravers Script:

http://i1130.photobucket.com/albums/m532/hlyuqi1/d4628535e5dde711089087b3a7efce1b9d1661w31.jpg

[ihtzazqamar]

Long time no see,everyone!I've been busy before,but I didn't stop writing.And this is my latest practice of Engravers Script:

http://i1130.photobucket.com/albums/m532/hlyuqi1/d4628535e5dde711089087b3a7efce1b9d1661w31.jpg

 

Very nice hand. Somehow I see some Spencerian touch in the sample. The ascenders/descenders may be a bit longer than I am used to in Copperplate 3:2:3 aspect ratio.

[hlyuqi]

Long time no see,everyone!I've been busy before,but I didn't stop writing.And this is my latest practice of Engravers Script:

http://i1130.photobucket.com/albums/m532/hlyuqi1/d4628535e5dde711089087b3a7efce1b9d1661w31.jpg

 

Very nice hand. Somehow I see some Spencerian touch in the sample. The ascenders/descenders may be a bit longer than I am used to in Copperplate 3:2:3 aspect ratio.

But I as I've known,2:1:2 is the right ratio in Engraver's Script.And my problem in confusing Copperplate with Spencerian is still unsolved.But it's better than what I wrote before I think.

[smk]

A very nice example Yuqi. I really like the flourishes you have added here and there. I find them just right - most of my efforts at adding a bit of flourish ends up being too busy.

 

You are right about the 2:1:2 ratio for Engraver's script. Dr. Vitolo's videos and lessons use this ratio as well. I find it quite attractive. My natural tendency is to make the ascenders shorter and the descenders longer which makes the lettering somewhat unbalanced so its easier for me to stick to the 3:2:3 for Copperplate.

 

Thanks for sharing.

 

Salman

[fuchsiaprincess]

Thank you very much, Yuqi! It is absolutely beautiful! Although I personally prefer the 3:2:3 ration, your writing is very pleasing to the eye indeed. BTW, what paper did you use? It looks like some sort of onion skin paper.

 

Regards,

Soki

[hlyuqi]

A very nice example Yuqi. I really like the flourishes you have added here and there. I find them just right - most of my efforts at adding a bit of flourish ends up being too busy.

 

You are right about the 2:1:2 ratio for Engraver's script. Dr. Vitolo's videos and lessons use this ratio as well. I find it quite attractive. My natural tendency is to make the ascenders shorter and the descenders longer which makes the lettering somewhat unbalanced so its easier for me to stick to the 3:2:3 for Copperplate.

 

Thanks for sharing.

 

Salman

Thanks for your reply Salman,I've been missing you and your writing for a long time!In fact,when I Started learning Copperplate,I used 2:1:2,maybe next time I will try 3:2:3.As to flourishing,I just make them simple.Can you send me some your latest writings?My e-mail:lovely997959@gmai.com

 

I'm now studying in a Foreign Language University,I will try my best to improve my English so that we can exchange our thoughts more easily.

 

Kindest regards'

Yuqi

Edited November 13, 2011 by hlyuqi

[hlyuqi]

Thank you very much, Yuqi! It is absolutely beautiful! Although I personally prefer the 3:2:3 ration, your writing is very pleasing to the eye indeed. BTW, what paper did you use? It looks like some sort of onion skin paper.

 

Regards,

Soki

 

Soki,I am sorry because I really have no idea what the paper is it.I can just tell you it is a very large paper,and I cut it to the size as it is now.

 

 

Yuqi

Edited November 13, 2011 by hlyuqi