Learning Copperplate...

[sniper910]

Ihtzazqamar, try clicking on "use full editor", then choose file. Once you oolen and choose the file, click "attach this file", then add reply. That's how i do mine anyway.

[sniper910]

Thank you for the explanation Ken.I'll work on minimizing my pen lifts and control.

 

Bierce- I had no idea the instructions may be that wrong. Do you know if the angles could be wrong in other scripts too? And as for the ink, thanks for the tip on shaking the pen after wiping it. I'll definitely give it a try. I haven't tried anything with my ink although i think I may need to thicken it. I'm not sure yet and I will probably wait on eroding on my technique before messing with ink thickness. Plus, with paper being a cause too, that's too many factors to worry about for me right now. I'd probably get frustrated and either give up or just settle for what I have instead on getting it right, but good to know. Thank you. And also, how do you go about dipping with your skrip bottle? I've never heard of that before. Since my ink has an eyedropper, i'm just putting one drop on the underside of the nib as needed, but Im almost out of ink in another bottle which, when I clean it out and transfer ink to it, I can just dip.

[caliken]

I had no idea the instructions may be that wrong. Do you know if the angles could be wrong in other scripts too?

 

All the instructions for lettering using an edged nib seem fine. The problem only occurs with the flexible nib scripts.

 

Ken

[smk]

 

Salman: Sir, I still do not know how to upload. I don't see an upload tab. Please guide me through.

 

 

Ihtizaz - if you look a the top of the thread you'll see a line of tabs named Forums, Classifieds, Blog, Downloads etc. The last of these is the 'Upload' tab. When you click on this tab a new window will open which presents you with the option to upload from HDD. On the right of this page is a link to the usage manual for the upload facility. It tells you how to use this feature in detail.

 

Feel free to drop me a PM if you're still having trouble.

 

Regards,

Salman

[Bierce]

Thank you for the explanation Ken.I'll work on minimizing my pen lifts and control.

 

Bierce- I had no idea the instructions may be that wrong. Do you know if the angles could be wrong in other scripts too? And as for the ink, thanks for the tip on shaking the pen after wiping it. I'll definitely give it a try. I haven't tried anything with my ink although i think I may need to thicken it. I'm not sure yet and I will probably wait on eroding on my technique before messing with ink thickness. Plus, with paper being a cause too, that's too many factors to worry about for me right now. I'd probably get frustrated and either give up or just settle for what I have instead on getting it right, but good to know. Thank you. And also, how do you go about dipping with your skrip bottle? I've never heard of that before. Since my ink has an eyedropper, i'm just putting one drop on the underside of the nib as needed, but Im almost out of ink in another bottle which, when I clean it out and transfer ink to it, I can just dip.

 

Again, I agree with Ken. I just skimmed through it again, and the broad edge stuff looks ok, although I only paid attention to the most common hands. I admit though, I haven't used the book much. I started out with books to learn the basics, but eventually wound up going to primary source materials to use as exemplars as much as possible (online auction houses with manuscript /book sections are great for hi-res images). Maybe the angle is right for the way Harris does roundhand, but I can't believe that's the easiest way.

 

As far as the ink and paper and stuff, that came to me after much hair was pulled out, trying everything I could find in the garage or the kitchen, but eventually I found a few standbys that work without fail, as I have no doubt you will if you keep experimenting. Changing one ingredient affects the properties of all the other ingredients as well, which is why it felt like I was trying to put socks on an octopus and getting nowhere. Your personal technique (pressure, etc.,) is also in that mix. I still catch myself blaming the ink from time to time, and then realizing that, no, I had been putting even the most subtle overall increase of pressure on the pen without thinking. Also, for me, some styles require different "speed" inks...for instance, engraver's text ink for me is about three times as thick as the ink I use to if I want to flourish around said text, a'la George Bickham.

 

Remember, we're involved in a pretty arcane endeavor, and reliable information can be dificult to find. A tip here, a tip there, and it all adds up over time. I do agree with your idea to work with what you have though. I need to be careful to not let the quest for the "perfect" materials hone in on my practice.

 

Regarding the Skrip bottle, you can probably search for an image of it, and it'll be self-explanatory when you see it with the lid off how it works. You're supposed to tip the jar with the lid on to fill the well, but it's easier to just use an eyedropper when you're going thru copious amounts of ink. I've seen them on eBay from time to time as well pretty cheap.

I don't know if other companies had a bottle with a built-in well; I just happened to come across Skrip's.

 

I never tried putting one drop of ink on a flexible pen. That's an interesting idea.

[ihtzazqamar]

my order of nibs have arrived from JNB. Gillot 303, 304, 170 and Leonardt Principal EF along with a couple of straight and oblique holders. Will be testing these now. I cannot dip the oblique holder in my ink pot. Is there a special ink pot for this? I am trying to find one with wide enough mouth.

 

Upload problem: It turns out that I need to be a Gold member to use the facility. So I am posting more now a days. Still practicing though and getting better.

 

Ihtzaz

[caliken]

I cannot dip the oblique holder in my ink pot. Is there a special ink pot for this? I am trying to find one with wide enough mouth.

Higgins Eternal ink containers have a wide enough opening for use with oblique nibs holders. If you're using a different ink, shallow, screw-top face cream containers do the job.

 

Ken

Edited August 25, 2011 by caliken

[sniper910]

my order of nibs have arrived from JNB. Gillot 303, 304, 170 and Leonardt Principal EF along with a couple of straight and oblique holders. Will be testing these now. I cannot dip the oblique holder in my ink pot. Is there a special ink pot for this? I am trying to find one with wide enough mouth.

 

Upload problem: It turns out that I need to be a Gold member to use the facility. So I am posting more now a days. Still practicing though and getting better.

 

Ihtzaz

 

 

I'm having the same problem with one of my ink bottles, so i just use my dropper and apply one drop to the underside of the nib, then wipe off the excess. It seems to be working so far, until I get a different bottle for my ink. I hope this helps

[sniper910]

Just a couple of problems I'm having now. First one is, when starting the upstroke after a straight downstroke, as in the letter m or n, there seems to be too much ink on the nib causing my upstroke to be too thick unless I lift my pen and start away from and a little higher up on the stroke. Is there a way to fix this? Second, in oval letters like a, o, c, and d, after writing your connecting stroke, do you lift and start the letter from the top, or continue the connecting stroke to the top and finish the letter in one stroke? If I do it this way, I always seem to run into problems with the oval being either misshapen or too small. I've seen both variations and wondering which is the proper way

[smk]

I cannot dip the oblique holder in my ink pot. Is there a special ink pot for this? I am trying to find one with wide enough mouth.

 

I'm having the same problem with one of my ink bottles, so i just use my dropper and apply one drop to the underside of the nib, then wipe off the excess. It seems to be working so far, until I get a different bottle for my ink. I hope this helps

 

I don't like dipping directly into ink bottles and have collected a number of small jam jars (the ones that are about a couple of inches high). These jars have a wide enough mouth to allow the oblique holder to dip easily and I'm not taking any risks with contaminating the ink in the bottle. It also comes in handy when you want to use fountain pen ink with dip pens by adding a drop or two of gum arabic.

 

Salman

[smk]

Just a couple of problems I'm having now. First one is, when starting the upstroke after a straight downstroke, as in the letter m or n, there seems to be too much ink on the nib causing my upstroke to be too thick unless I lift my pen and start away from and a little higher up on the stroke. Is there a way to fix this? Second, in oval letters like a, o, c, and d, after writing your connecting stroke, do you lift and start the letter from the top, or continue the connecting stroke to the top and finish the letter in one stroke? If I do it this way, I always seem to run into problems with the oval being either misshapen or too small. I've seen both variations and wondering which is the proper way

 

You might be using ink thats too thin for this application or not releasing the pressure enough for the tines to snap back properly. I had the latter problem and fixed it by stopping completely at the end of the shaded stroke, lifting the nib off the paper, putting it back where I lifted it from and continuing.

 

As for the rounded letters after the connector, I lift my pen and start the stroke at the top. I don't know if there is a particular 'correct' way to do this but this gets me consistently good results without slowing me down so I use it.

 

Salman

[fuchsiaprincess]

Thanks smk, I'll keep that in mind. I've never been one to keep practice sheets or drafts in anything, which is why I've never posted practice sheets here. I usually review them then just toss them in the trash. Maybe putting some up here will help in catching what needs work and any bad habits

 

It is actually a good idea to keep your practise sheets in a folder and keep track of your progress. You will be amazed at the improvement!

[sniper910]

thanks for the tips salman. i'm not sure what i'm gonna do about the ink bottle for now, so i'm still using the dropper until i get some empty short bottles, probably when i use up the ink in one of my speedball bottles. they're also about one inch high and wide enough to dip. as for the lettering, i wasn't sure. when i watched some other videos, it doesn't look like the pen lifts when forming those letters, so it's good to know how other people deal with those problems. i'm thinking about possibly changing ink, or making it just a little thicker, eventually.

 

fuchiaprincess, yeah i should have kept all my old sheets too. i just never really liked looking back at rough drafts and the learning process, which also goes with all my drawings. i always threw away mistakes and drafts, keeping only the final product. but keeping these sheets are helping to teach my my mistakes. my wife also told me to keep all of them in a sketchbook so that i can look back on my progress. i'm still debating that one. thank you

[1946]

One of my very infrequent replies to forum. Last year I purchased two very beautiful oblique pens from 'Paper& Ink Arts' and along with those I also bought an 'Yoropen', but, this is not exactly a pen, but an oblique pencil with small replaceable leads. I find this a very handy tool for practice and any mistakes no matter how bad can be erased. As this is a round lead pencil it can be used with either left or right hand or as a normal pencil, in a vertical position. The oblique angle of the lead holder is just slightly smaller than the standard pen. Check it out.

I very much admire the work of all people on this forum, and follow it with great interest. Please keep up the great work as hand writing seems to be somewhat of a dieing art.

Disclaimer: I am in no way connected with either Paper&Ink Arts or Yoropen and you purchase of your own free will.

[fuchsiaprincess]

thanks for the tips salman. i'm not sure what i'm gonna do about the ink bottle for now, so i'm still using the dropper until i get some empty short bottles, probably when i use up the ink in one of my speedball bottles. they're also about one inch high and wide enough to dip. as for the lettering, i wasn't sure. when i watched some other videos, it doesn't look like the pen lifts when forming those letters, so it's good to know how other people deal with those problems. i'm thinking about possibly changing ink, or making it just a little thicker, eventually.

 

fuchiaprincess, yeah i should have kept all my old sheets too. i just never really liked looking back at rough drafts and the learning process, which also goes with all my drawings. i always threw away mistakes and drafts, keeping only the final product. but keeping these sheets are helping to teach my my mistakes. my wife also told me to keep all of them in a sketchbook so that i can look back on my progress. i'm still debating that one. thank you

 

How about these for inkwells?

[Ghost Plane]

I like the colored ones! Or the plastic measuring cup off the top of cough syrup bottles or for children's liquid medicines? Not that I have a lot of friends with sick children lately

[ihtzazqamar]

I just tried a regular tea cup, upside down. The base provided a reasonable ink pot for the oblique pen, Used a syringe to transfer the ink, did my practice and transferred the leftover back in the bottle.

 

I was struggling with my ascender loops like in b and l. Using oblique holder helps to overcome this type of difficulty.

[sniper910]

thanks fuchsiaprincess, never thought of that. so simple, yet would do the job and inexpensive. i'll check around at party stores for those. now i feel like a doofus for not thinking of that. or the measuring cup like ghost plane mentioned. even easier! there i was making things so much more complicated than they needed to be.

 

ihtzazqamar,yes the oblique holder helps so much. when i first started, i was using a straight holder like i use with edged nibs, and couldn't understand why i couldn't get things to work. then people here mentioned the oblique holder. it made so much difference!

 

and i also received my copy of ken's copperlplate handwriting book today. looking forward to going home and putting in some practice. very helpful

Edited August 29, 2011 by sniper910

[fuchsiaprincess]

thanks fuchsiaprincess, never thought of that. so simple, yet would do the job and inexpensive. i'll check around at party stores for those. now i feel like a doofus for not thinking of that. or the measuring cup like ghost plane mentioned. even easier! there i was making things so much more complicated than they needed to be.

 

ihtzazqamar,yes the oblique holder helps so much. when i first started, i was using a straight holder like i use with edged nibs, and couldn't understand why i couldn't get things to work. then people here mentioned the oblique holder. it made so much difference!

 

and i also received my copy of ken's copperlplate handwriting book today. looking forward to going home and putting in some practice. very helpful

 

You're very welcome! That's what we're here for

[sniper910]

here are the next bunch of exercises in strokes. slowly getting a little more control, but still having problems coming up from shaded strokes line in "m". i'm trying to concentrate a little more on evenly spacing strokes within the letter, which sometimes works, and other times doesn't. also i started practicing the long stroke as in "t". this is much harder than i thought, especially trying to keep the entire stroke consistent