Learning Copperplate...

[caliken]

  On 8/15/2011 at 11:00 AM, Oliwerko said:

I decided to go slowly and carefully rather than to rush to anything fast and develop some nasty bad habits.

Well done! This is exactly the right attitude to adopt when tackling this difficult script. It does take time and a great deal of patience. You're displaying both characteristics in your approach to getting the feel for even, balanced, diagonal strokes. It's so tempting to go rushing in with full pages of text before attaining sufficient control over the flexible nib. You've made a very good start and I, for one, look forward to seeing your development as you work through the various basic strokes; letters; words and finally texts.

 

Salman, who started this topic, has led the way by demonstration and, in a relatively short space of time, has reached the stage of produced some very fine Copperplate.

 

caliken

[caliken]

  On 8/14/2011 at 7:32 PM, ihtzazqamar said:

Hello. I am new to this forum and am learning copperplate now a days. Seeing the posts in this thread, I am at square one right now. Hope to learn and improve by participating.

At this moment, copperplate means to me 'thick down strokes and thin up strokes'. I still have to learn to maintain x height, slant angle and consistent shading. I only have few nibs, a couple of straight holders, my sons notebook to write on and fountain pen ink to go with.

Here is my first submission. Please feel free to guide me.

Thanks

Ihtzaz

It's interesting to see this, your first submission - if you stick with it, you won't recognize your writing in a few months! You've made a good start with an unbderstanding of the 'thick downstrokes and thin upstrokes'.

 

Just a couple of points - it's best to start with lined paper with slope guide lines at 35 degrees from the vertical. At the moment, your writing is too upright to be considered Copperplate. This is usual when starting with a straight pen. Buy an oblique penholder. The plastic ones are quite inexpensive and will make writing at the correct slope, much easier.

You won't like this, but I suggest following the examples set by others on this thread, beginning with exercises to develop stroke control, before writing words and text. This really does pay dividends quite quickly and you will soon feel more in control of the flexible nib.

This has developed into a really valuable thread IMO and it's fascinating to see how others are developing confidence and clarity in their Copperplate as they study and practice. It does take some time, but eventually there comes that moment when you control the pen and not the other way round!

 

caliken

[ihtzazqamar]

caliken: Thanks a lot for the feedback. I understand that I have to learn and practice a lot. I will be practicing the slant angle. Will post to get feedback when I see some improvement myself. The nibs, oblique holders etc are not available in Islamabad. I have ordered a few from JNB and will get them by the end of this month. Thanks again.

Ihtzaz

[Oliwerko]

Thanks for encouragement Ken! I am a musician myself, so this approach is something I know works, and that there is no way around it. I also find it good to go slowly so I don't get bored by doing downstrokes all the time. I'm also learning some broad nib lettering at the same time, so when I get bored with pointed nibs I switch for broad, and the other way around. So far it's much fun!

 

And yes, this thread is definitely a very valuable resource, it's one of the reasons I got going in the first place.

[sniper910]

right now i'm practicing my strokes and lettering with a 7mm x-height. should i maybe practice with a smaller one while i work on the strokes? i'm gonna completely start over from square 1

[smk]

Ihtizaz- its lovely to see you join in. You are off to a good start. I wholeheartedly agree with Ken's advice. It has proved invaluable to me.

 

Its good to know you've ordered the stuff from JNB - what exactly did you order? I found the adjustable holders to be much better for the learning phase than the fixed plastic ones. Nibs make a big difference too. A very solid workhorse nib for learning is the Brause 66EF.

 

Oliwerko - a very nice start. I found that the paper picked up oils from my writing hand as I worked my way down the sheet and the bottom part of the sheet would display unusual behavior. I started placing a scrap sheet of paper under my writing hand as I practiced and it helped a lot.

 

  On 8/15/2011 at 9:29 PM, sniper910 said:

right now i'm practicing my strokes and lettering with a 7mm x-height. should i maybe practice with a smaller one while i work on the strokes? i'm gonna completely start over from square 1

 

I started with 6mm but made better and rapid progress when I switched to 10mm x-height. The larger letters allowed me more time to form the stroke and any irregularities were more readily apparent. I needed nibs that were on the more flexible side and loved the Gillot 303 for this size. My favorite quickly became the Esterbrook 357 and I still love it.

 

Looking forward to more contributions. I need to brush up with some practice too and will add stuff as I go along.

 

Salman

 

Edited for clarity and formatting.

Edited August 15, 2011 by smk

[sniper910]

Thanks smk, I'll keep that in mind. I've never been one to keep practice sheets or drafts in anything, which is why I've never posted practice sheets here. I usually review them then just toss them in the trash. Maybe putting some up here will help in catching what needs work and any bad habits

[ihtzazqamar]

well, I have ordered, from JNB, few Gillot 303, 304 and some other. Also a couple of cheap oblique holders and straight holders.

I have been practicing my slant angle and would further advice. I am posting three samples. In the first, I used a graph paper, drew slant lines by hand. In the second sample, I used a thin Bond paper over a guide sheet. The third sample is on a plain paper, no guides whatsoever.

 

Sample #1

 

Sample # 2

 

Oh, I am out of quota. How to overcome this problem. Please help.

[rhr2010]

I enjoyed reading some parts of this long thread, while I am moving baby steps towards learning Copperplate. I would like to hear from the experts if it is possible to achieve decent results in Copperplate by using a standard flexible fountain pen. I will try an oblique pen holder as soon as it gets in the mail, but I would like to use this wonderful hand with my flexible fountain pens. A fountain pen would allow me to "doodle" in this hand wherever I am, while most likely a dip pen would be staying at home. In order to achieve the result, I rotate the sheet in such a way that the 55 degrees lines are perpendicular to my chest.

[Mickey]

Here are two videos. The first demonstrates what is possible with a very flexible FP and the second shows that beautiful copperplate is possible with a straight pen. Put together, I think they answer your question.

 

 

[caliken]

For those who feel that they will never get to grips with Copperplate or Spencerian have a look at this astonishing "before & after" example.

 

caliken

 

before & after

Edited August 17, 2011 by caliken

[rhr2010]

Thank you Mickey, very interesting videos. They do answer my question. On the other hand, I have been practicing with several flexible fountain pens and therefore I didn't doubt that it is possible to write Copperplate with a fountain pens. The question was more, would an experienced calligrapher ever use a fountain pen for Copperplate or Spencerian? Maybe not in a formal document, but in writing a note? Also, in the teens and twenties when flexible fountain pens were very popular, which style of writing was the most popular, if any?

 

[smk]

  On 8/17/2011 at 8:32 PM, ihtzazqamar said:

well, I have ordered, from JNB, few Gillot 303, 304 and some other. Also a couple of cheap oblique holders and straight holders.

I have been practicing my slant angle and would further advice. I am posting three samples. In the first, I used a graph paper, drew slant lines by hand. In the second sample, I used a thin Bond paper over a guide sheet. The third sample is on a plain paper, no guides whatsoever.

 

The graph paper is a good idea - you can change the x-height at will. While it gives you this flexibility I feel it might also be a bit distracting for practice. I found that printed sheet with the guidelines barely visible gave me the best results.

 

Also, I highly recommend practicing the basic strokes that are recommended by the experts in the beginning. It helps a lot with forming the letters and make progress quicker for the later lessons. You can always have some fun with writing complete words but I won't recommend learning Copperplate that way.

 

  Quote

Oh, I am out of quota. How to overcome this problem. Please help.

 

Use the 'Upload' tab (it opens a new window) to upload your pictures. Once uploaded, the page shows you links to the image that you can copy and paste into your post. There are not quota limits if you upload this way.

 

Salman

[Mickey]

  On 8/18/2011 at 2:40 AM, rhr2010 said:

Also, in the teens and twenties when flexible fountain pens were very popular, which style of writing was the most popular, if any?

 

 

Palmer was the most frequently taught method in the US in the teens and 20s, though older people would likely have been schooled in Spencerian or one of its contemporary commercial hands. I have a number of family letters written around that period by people born in the 1870s. The letter forms are generally Spencerian but the spacing is tighter and the ascenders and descenders curtailed (c 1.5 time x height). I don't think writing style (method) contributes to what you noticed as much as familiarity with the tools. Consider how you would write if you'd grown up with flexible pens, rather that the nails most of us started with.

 

As for how calligraphers write casually, I imagine however the mood and circumstance strikes them.

[sniper910]

i've been working on my copperplate strokes. need pointers for improvement. especially the top and bottom curves. i seem to have a problem keeping the ink flowing smoothly on the upstroke and making the curves nice and round. also, do you lift your pen at the end of up and down strokes like explained on iampeth? i've seen people write multiple letters without a penlift, and i'm wondering what the proper way is

[caliken]

  On 8/20/2011 at 4:20 AM, sniper910 said:

i've been working on my copperplate strokes. need pointers for improvement. especially the top and bottom curves. i seem to have a problem keeping the ink flowing smoothly on the upstroke and making the curves nice and round. also, do you lift your pen at the end of up and down strokes like explained on iampeth? i've seen people write multiple letters without a penlift, and i'm wondering what the proper way is

 

The style of lettering on Iampeth is Engraver's or Engrosser's script which is a drawn version, hence the pen lifts.

Copperplate Handwriting is the handwritten form with few, if any, pen lifts.

 

Both derive from English Roundhand.

 

You are making real progress with your exercises IMO. They are looking really good, even and controlled.

 

caliken

[Bierce]

I agree with Ken's assessment of Harris' instruction. I was given the C's bible as a gift years ago, and only in retrospect do I see the flaws in it. It's almost as if the pen angles are just stock photographs that were dropped in to what the editors thought was a decent angle. I keep the book for sentimental value, but that's about it. My most valuable help for pointed pen as a complete beginner was the Vitolo series at IAMPETH. Just to actually see it done was invaluable.

 

As far as ink flow, blobbing, pooling, etc.; a very small but welcome "Eureka" moment for me was discovering that giving the pen one shake after the wipe on the jar lip worked wonders. Dip, wipe, one shake (almost like you're releasing a yo-yo) straight into the jar, and the blobs and thickness at the start of the writing- *poof* gone. Worked for me, anyway. Have to shake after the wipe though, or you just pick up the ink on the lip of the jar again, defeating the purpose.

 

Another great help was when I scored a "Skrip" bottle at an antiques store...it was fifty cents, I had no intention of using it (just got it for fun), but that inside well is incredible for getting just the right amount of ink on the pen consistently. I fill the jar with ink, then use an eyedropper to fill the inside well from the jar itself (must keep the well filled to the brim, so I'm eyedroppering every ten minutes or so as I write).

 

I also found that the .25 oz "Carmex" lip balm containers work perfectly for dipping pens. They're like 75 cents; just clean the balm out or use it or whatever, and they're perfect for dipping. Get a few, and you can keep your different ink mixes in them; just label the lids, and make sure they stay filled (eyedropper again).

 

I remember getting the ink mix just right being very frustrating. There exists a perfect mix of ink to water to thickener, which I'll never achieve, but I've managed to get in the ball park consistently. I've found that even humidity or temperature differences affect the lay of the ink.

 

I also agree with Salman's point that paper is very important. The ink must not dry through absorption; instead it has to sit on top of the paper, otherwise the hairlines thicken.

 

Oh, and a big "yes" on the oblique. I figured "hey, for once in my life, I get to rub being lefty into the righty's face now and use a straight penholder!" Wrong. The advantages to the oblique are overwhelming for me.

 

I still have a ways to go, but there is not much more frustrating than your progress being hamstrung by your tools so you can't even get out of the gate and onto the track.

Edited August 20, 2011 by Bierce

[ihtzazqamar]

Hello. I am practicing. Took the advise and have started practicing through Baird's lessons.

For those who are beginners like me...listen to the experts and go through practice sheets. It DOES make a huge difference.

 

I will post when I am comfortable with the first sheet (Baird's).

Salman: Sir, I still do not know how to upload. I don't see an upload tab. Please guide me through.

 

Regards

Ihtzaz

[Ghost Plane]

It's in the "Add Reply" rather than the "Fast Reply" window underneath the thread.

[ihtzazqamar]

I am still not able to upload. Tried to go through gallery option, but I do not see a gallery tab at the top of the page as the Help says. Anyway, I have uploaded an image in my flickr account.

The following in my first practice sheet. When I am practicing, it is better but when I prepare a sample for uploading, it does not come out that good.

 

http://farm7.static.flickr.com/6081/6065500589_e2a0cd7132_b_d.jpg

 

Thanks

ihtzaz