Learning Copperplate...

[hlyuqi]

hlyuqi these are just superb. You are back with a bang. Hope to see many more from your pen.

 

Salman

Salman

I like writing,so I will always come here.And I hope we can make progress together~

[fuchsiaprincess]

Welcome home, hlyuqi! They are absolutely beautiful :clap1: Thanks for sharing.

 

May I offer one teensy, weensy tip - the bottom of the 'f' would look more 'finished' if it was flat, I think. I hope you know what I'm trying to say.

 

Take care!

 

Regards,

Soki

[Ghost Plane]

But the flow is so beautiful that I like it as it is. Keeps the "rhythm" to my eye.

[sniper910]

Hello everyone. I'm new to the forum and have an interest in the copperplate script. All the scans and images here are beautiful and the progress is coming along. Last year i purchased the speedball beginner kit that comes with about 6 nibs or so. I'm pretty sure at least one of them is made for copperplate. But when i dip and start practicing, I run out of ink before i can finish my first letter. Is there something I can do or is that just how the nib is? Also, am I able to put a reservoir on the nib so I can get more practice, and if so, how?

[fuchsiaprincess]

Hi Sniper,

 

The nibs need to be 'treated' before you use them because they have a protective coating that prevents them from rusting. There are many ways of removing this coating. The way I do it is to place the nib under a naked flame. Others recommended wiping the nib with some alcohol.

 

Hope this helps!

 

PS -

[smk]

Welcome Sniper.

 

I agree with fuchsiaprincess - I suspect you need to clean your nibs for use. There are a number of ways to get the nibs started like holding it over a flame or cleaning with windex or gum arabic etc. You'll find some in this article: Troubleshooting a Calligraphy Dip Pen.

 

Ink makes a big difference too. I find that Higgins Eternal works best for me. Some FP inks work o.k. too but not will al nibs. The experimenting and learning is part of the fun of using dip nibs although it can be frustrating in the beginning when you just want to start practicing. Stay with it, the reward is worth it.

 

One can fashion a reservoir for flexible dip pens but its usually needed for flourishing when you need to make flowing fast strokes that needs constant ink supply. For calligraphy you'll be fine once the nib is started.

 

One more thing, make sure the breather hole in your nib is covered in ink when you start writing. If not, whatever ink is stuck to the tines will fall down in a blob when you put the nib on paper.

 

Does your kit have an oblique holder. I found myself quite frustrated when I attempted to use flex nibs with a regular holder and an oblique holder made all the difference.

 

Good luck - and please do share your progress with us.

 

Salman

[sniper910]

thank you fuchsiaprincess and smk. with my other nibs i'd lightly scrub them with ultra fine steel wool to get off the varnish and they seemed to work at the time. but i tried the windex, and it seemed to work. i would have tried the flame, but i'm at work and can't seem to find any matches around. also, i don't think i was dipping the pen deep enough. i'd getjust the tip of a little of the breather hole in there but not covered. i thought that would be too much ink. right now i'm using dr. ph martins bombay india ink. i think i'm getting a little more out of the pen than previously. thank you. if i'm just starting this hand, and writing around half and inch high, now long should one dipping last before having to refill? just curious and wanting to make sure i'm getting the most out of each dip. thank you again. and smk, your progress is coming along great!!

[smk]

The 'mileage' you get out of a dip varies with each combination of nib, ink and paper so there is no set rule. You'll get a sense of it yourself after using different nibs, inks and paper. On average when writing at about 1cm x-height, I get an 'a' and maybe the initial and last connector out of a fill.

 

I usually dip before shaded strokes to avoid running out in the middle of it. This is not a hand to be hurried and I'm not too worried about dip efficiency.

 

Salman

[sniper910]

thanks! can't wait to get home and start practicing

[caliken]

I usually dip before shaded strokes to avoid running out in the middle of it. This is not a hand to be hurried and I'm not too worried about dip efficiency.

I agree with the above.

 

Here is a short video clip showing my average amount of lettering with one dip. Once the nib is properly prepared and 'broken in' I usually manage several letters at a reasonable size.

 

....and this shows the amount of lettering possible, with one dip with the same nib.

http://i226.photobucket.com/albums/dd289/caliken_2007/dippenfinal3.jpg

 

Ken

Edited July 3, 2011 by caliken

[demonstrator fan]

Ken (Caliken) / SMK

Could one of you explain the X height and ratios preferably in a visual manner.

 

I am creating some guide sheets to start practicing with, below is an image of one of the sheets I am creating. I know there are guides out there already but understanding the x-height ratio relationship will allow me to understand, experiment and create guide sheets for different ratios.

 

http://farm6.static.flickr.com/5040/5900955048_51ea3abd85.jpg

 

From the Scribblers Blog:

"Typical x-heights are 4, 5 or 6mm. The ‘normal’ ratio of ascender – x-heights – descender is 3:2:3. Therefore if you have an x-height of 4mm, you would have 6mm for ascenders and descenders. However, these are only guidelines."

 

http://www.scribblers.biz/blog/category/starting-calligraphy/copperplate-starting-calligraphy/

 

"In the scale of three, for example, ascenders and de-scenders are twice the size of the x-height, making the x-height one-third of the entire letter."

Bob Hurford

 

Should the dimensions from the letter centre line in my sheet for an x-height of 4mm be 2mm + 3mm + 3mm (from centre to top of normal letter + First ascender + Second ascender)?

 

As you can probably tell I'm slightly confused and failing to fully understand it at this moment :embarrassed_smile:

Edited July 4, 2011 by demonstrator fan

[caliken]

This is an extract from my recent book 'Copperplate Handwriting'.

 

http://i226.photobucket.com/albums/dd289/caliken_2007/A4Page14compltete500.jpg

 

This simple formula is easy to work out at any size, and produces elegantly balanced Copperplate. It should be noted that the Iampeth guidelines for the Engravers Script form of Copperplate, are a little different.

 

If you stick to the age-old terminology as laid out above, you will avoid any ambiguity. With an x height of 4 mm (baseline to midline) the 3 : 2 : 3 ratio produces

lettering sized at 6 : 4 : 6 mm. I position the high strokes of t & d by eye between the midline and the ascender line.

 

Hope this helps.

 

Ken

[demonstrator fan]

Many thanks Ken

 

That's how I originally though it was set out but got confused after reading different sources.

 

Below is a small sample of the revised sheet I have produced.

 

http://farm6.static.flickr.com/5079/5901067027_bba8fee944.jpg

 

I have set the 'Low ascenders/ Shallow Descenders' at 2/3 of the Ascender Height as an approximation.

 

I approximated from your sample that the width of the letters is 2/3 of the height i.e. 2.667' mm for a 4mm x-height which seems to look in the right proportion.

 

I have a small package waiting for me at home containing:

Oblique Penholder

Speedball Penholder

Brause 361

Hunt 101

Gillott 404

Gillott 303

Gillott 170

 

This seemed like a good starting set up but I probably should have got some ink , I’ll have to try with my FP inks this evening and see how i get on

 

Thanks again

 

DF

 

EDIT: Typos & Grammar

Edited July 4, 2011 by demonstrator fan

[smk]

Ken's explanation is just perfect. I need to get my hands on that book somehow.

 

You are going to enjoy that Hunt 101 - its a loverly nib. I also like the Gillot 303 and the 170 a lot. The 170 is great for smaller x-heights.

 

Ink makes a lot of difference. FP inks are a mixed bag - some inks work with some nibs but you'll need to experiment. You might want to take a little ink out into a smaller wide mouthed container to the oblique holder can be dipped easily and you don't take a chance on contaminating the whole bottle. I use the jars from the mini jam bottles.

 

Salman

[demonstrator fan]

I have 'burned' off the coating to the nibs but my inks seem to be a little to watery the film keeps breaking just after starting a stroke (Diamine Sepia). I stupidly then used some of the noodlers ink with the Brause nib. Bad idea to use lubricating ink as it didn't just feather I think it left the whole bird behind in fuzzovision

 

Guess I'll have to order some calligraphy inks. Any ones that people would recommend

 

SMK, Mini jam bottles sound like a good idea, I'll have to seek some out, thanks for the tip.

 

Guess I'll have to practice with the Falcon till I get some proper ink!

[The Royal Pen]

I have redone my handle and while I had that beautiful ink, thought Id copy something in Latin as well:

 

http://i1027.photobucket.com/albums/y331/fuchsiaprincess/Fuchsiaprincess_0001.jpg

 

http://i1027.photobucket.com/albums/y331/fuchsiaprincess/AveMaria.jpg

 

THAT IS ABSOLUTELY BEAUTIFUL!

I love it! I like the flourish,

[sniper910]

I'm pretty sure I'm using the hunt 101 nib, but I find that the tip scratches the paper a lot on the upstroke, causing the lines to be a little shaky. Also on the down strokes I'm having trouble controlling the shading, if that's what it's called. Is there anything I can do to fix that besides changing paper, or do i just need to just keep practicing to get over it? Also, I thought I saw a link here to download worksheets for copperplate. Does anyone know where it is? I hope i didn't miss it or skip over it.

[sniper910]

I usually dip before shaded strokes to avoid running out in the middle of it. This is not a hand to be hurried and I'm not too worried about dip efficiency.

I agree with the above.

 

Here is a short video clip showing my average amount of lettering with one dip. Once the nib is properly prepared and 'broken in' I usually manage several letters at a reasonable size.

 

....and this shows the amount of lettering possible, with one dip with the same nib.

http://i226.photobucket.com/albums/dd289/caliken_2007/dippenfinal3.jpg

 

Ken

 

 

Thanks! The video helped me realize how much is possible. And you wrote all that wit one dip? Guess I finally figured out what I've been doing wrong as far as conditioning my nibs. When you write, do you find yourself going back to fix the shading on the letters or does it come out like that after the first stroke? And when I write, although i go up passed the breather hole, my nib still blotts quite a bit even if I wipe off the excess. Any idea on how I can resolve that?

[caliken]

When you write, do you find yourself going back to fix the shading on the letters or does it come out like that after the first stroke? And when I write, although i go up passed the breather hole, my nib still blotts quite a bit even if I wipe off the excess. Any idea on how I can resolve that?

 

Just a thought -

 

You may be hoding the pen at to high an angle to the paper. This can cause excessive scratching on upstrokes and can cause the ink to flood out as gravity takes effect.

 

I wrote the above in one continuous flow. After a while, you can sense when the nib is about to run dry, and I always try to re-dip just before this happens.

 

Ken

[sniper910]

Thanks Ken. I've tried changing the angle which i hold the pen. But I find that when i start, there is still lots of excess ink even after I wipe off what i can. Or maybe I need a different pen or thicker ink? I'm still practicing writing angles and controlling the shading, but having trouble when the ink keeps blotting. I'm using just plain typing paper, which is most accessible for me right now