Learning Copperplate...

[smk]

Nice writing wickwack. Its great that you have FPs to practice with. Your first practice session is impressive indeed. The shades on the 'o's seem a bit off to me, its supposed to be on the left side and taper out to a hairline before the bottom of the curve.

 

I'm not sure if writing vertical is 'allowed' in copperplate but it does look nice.

 

I'll be looking forward to more samples.

 

Salman

[Achim]

Achim - now thats some nice Copperplate. How long did it take you to get to this level?

 

Salman

 

I only tried Copperplate in about 12-15 sessions, each of about 1-2 hours, so I'm still a "noob". Usually I do exercises in Spencerian and I started Copperplate just to test some nibs and when I was bored by lines over lines of eeeeeees and oooooooos in monoline Spencerian (I didn't arrive at the more interesting shaded capitals in my copybooks yet). But I think any concentrated exercises, independent of script, help to get the dexterity and the scrutinizing eye needed for calligraphy.

 

And to answer a recent question from Ken: my usual handwriting didn't improve in the least when I write at speed, it looks like a doctor's. Only when I slow down a lot it starts to resemble business script to an extent.

 

Best, Achim.

[Wickwack]

Out of the texts available on iampeth.com I have selected two; Lessons in Engrosser's Script by E.L. Brown and Lessons in Engraver's script by W.A. Baird (they are the first two on the list). Do you feel that one of these is more suitable for our purposes than the other?

 

Although they are both excellent in their own way, I think that the lessons by W.A. Baird are closer to the ideal.

 

Of course, every serious student of this style of writing should have a copy of "The Universal Penman" by George Bickham. This inexpensive book, first published in the 1700s, has been the starting point for every attempt to produce Copperplate; Engrossers; Engravers handwriting/lettering.

 

This is where it all started and the copper-engraved examples, are staggeringly beautiful and are surely the exemplars to end all exemplars.

 

If you don't have it - get a copy. It will blow your mind!

 

Ken

 

I agree totally~! I have that book (edit: The Universal Penman) also and it's breathtaking! It's full of examples for ideas & practicing!

Rhea

Edited February 8, 2011 by Wickwack

[Wickwack]

Nice writing wickwack. Its great that you have FPs to practice with. Your first practice session is impressive indeed. The shades on the 'o's seem a bit off to me, its supposed to be on the left side and taper out to a hairline before the bottom of the curve.

 

I'm not sure if writing vertical is 'allowed' in copperplate but it does look nice.

 

I'll be looking forward to more samples.

 

Salman

You are right, I'm putting pressure naturally on all downward strokes. I appreciate your critique - that's why this is such a great topic.

[bigstick]

it's good you have a 404 Salman. What I found is that when I started with large letters as the books suggest, the 303 was great. Then I shrank to less than half the size I learned at, and the 303 was too soft. Now it is the 404, and I'm leaning towards finding a stiffer nib, as I want to write smaller still (current x-height is 4 mm.) You will make your own choices as you progress (rapidly, I assume, as you are already an accomplished calligrapher. It is hubris to give you advice!)

[smk]

it's good you have a 404 Salman. What I found is that when I started with large letters as the books suggest, the 303 was great. Then I shrank to less than half the size I learned at, and the 303 was too soft. Now it is the 404, and I'm leaning towards finding a stiffer nib, as I want to write smaller still (current x-height is 4 mm.) You will make your own choices as you progress (rapidly, I assume, as you are already an accomplished calligrapher. It is hubris to give you advice!)

 

Ah - now it makes perfect sense. I did try to write smaller once or twice and found that the shading was excessive. I put it down to a lack of practice at the time - now I know! I'll be sure to break out that 404 and give it another go at a smaller sized letters.

 

And please, be free with your advice. I not only welcome it but am counting on it. I'm merely a student of calligraphy and far from where I would consider myself accomplished. I don't think I'll ever get to a point where I won't need help and direction :-)

 

Salman

[smk]

 

I only tried Copperplate in about 12-15 sessions, each of about 1-2 hours, so I'm still a "noob". Usually I do exercises in Spencerian and I started Copperplate just to test some nibs and when I was bored by lines over lines of eeeeeees and oooooooos in monoline Spencerian (I didn't arrive at the more interesting shaded capitals in my copybooks yet). But I think any concentrated exercises, independent of script, help to get the dexterity and the scrutinizing eye needed for calligraphy.

 

And to answer a recent question from Ken: my usual handwriting didn't improve in the least when I write at speed, it looks like a doctor's. Only when I slow down a lot it starts to resemble business script to an extent.

 

Best, Achim.

 

Thats good to know. Now I have a benchmark of what to expect - and thats always good. I agree that any concentrated exercise help develop control and eye - I found that my Arabic calligraphy practice helped a lot with learning the version of Batarde I was taught in manipulating the pen for some of the strokes - something that others found slightly difficult.

 

My experience with calligraphy and handwriting is slightly different than yours. Practicing italic has given me another 'option' in handwriting. I had a fairly personalized cursive hand that I would change slightly on occasion. While practicing italic I found that one of the changes was a cursive italic - that was a very happy side-effect and completely unexpected.

 

Salman

[smk]

Ok - here's my update for lesson 1. I can reliably draw the figures *if* I pay close attention but as soon as my concentration wavers, the slant shifts towards the vertical! I think its at a point that I can move to lesson 2 even though the exercise is not done perfectly. Since some of the movements are repeated in lesson 2 I think I'll be able to catch up.

 

Here goes:

 

 

I am writing this at 6mm x-height. Is that ok? I did try a few strokes at double this x-height and they were much easier to make. Is there a recommended starting size for Copperplate?

 

Salman

[caliken]

I am writing this at 6mm x-height. Is that ok? I did try a few strokes at double this x-height and they were much easier to make. Is there a recommended starting size for Copperplate?

 

I don't think that you'll find the definitive answer to your question. IMO 6mm is perfect - not too large and not too small.

 

I'd just like to say that I think that your approach to practice and learning, is admirable. You're making great progress and are certainly ready to move on. There are too many half-baked attempts at Copperplate out there, with a Shakespeare Sonnet, or the equivalent, being written out after a couple of days "practice". These efforts are often accompanied by statements like "I learned Copperplate writing last night. I think that I'll move on to something else, today".

 

This is a difficult style to execute properly and if one is serious about learning it, there are no shortcuts. It's imperative that the basic strokes are understood and written properly, stage by stage, before attempting to write words and sentences.

Because you're doing it properly, your progress has been rapid and your understanding and control of the basic elements is already established.

 

As Tom Gourdie famously said with regards to Calligraphy -

"Nobody ever won a prize for being first".

 

Please keep posting.

 

caliken

Edited February 10, 2011 by caliken

[Signum1]

Here's my 20 minutes practice today.

 

http://img651.imageshack.us/img651/7131/scannedimage8.jpg

 

 

 

These are the challenges I notice.

 

1. Long strokes require more steady hands at 12mm. The shorter strokes at 4 mm are easier to make.

 

2. The third and fourth lines are difficult to make that swelling. I found it challenging when to apply pressure and when to release pressure on the nib to show the "gradual" swelling part of the stroke after the hairline stroke.

 

3. Another observation is for the loops on the fourth line. I notice I don't follow through with a long hairline upstroke for the next loop.

 

That's the first 20 minutes of copperplate.

[smk]

Ken - thank you for the words of encouragement. Its good to know one's on the right path.

 

I appreciate your point about taking the time to do it right. I often find that the learning process is indeed the most pleasurable part of calligraphy, the feeling when a particular stroke just falls into place after frustrating you for ages is just priceless. I'm finding Copperplate much more fun to learn than I had expected - which is not to say its easy :-)

 

I was practicing writing the word 'minimum' today and saw how the strokes I had practiced fell into place and suddenly made sense. For me learning calligraphy turns out to be developing the eye for the characteristics of various hands and once that is sufficiently developed the physical act of putting ink on paper becomes relaxed and natural. It does take some doing to get to that point though.

 

I'm thoroughly enjoying this experience. I was somewhat apprehensive about putting the learning process online but now I'm glad that I did.

 

Regards,

Salman

[smk]

Here's my 20 minutes practice today.

 

These are the challenges I notice.

 

1. Long strokes require more steady hands at 12mm. The shorter strokes at 4 mm are easier to make.

 

2. The third and fourth lines are difficult to make that swelling. I found it challenging when to apply pressure and when to release pressure on the nib to show the "gradual" swelling part of the stroke after the hairline stroke.

 

3. Another observation is for the loops on the fourth line. I notice I don't follow through with a long hairline upstroke for the next loop.

 

That's the first 20 minutes of copperplate.

 

Thats nice work for 20 minutes of practice.

 

Do you have slant guides on your practice sheet? l find drawing the shades easier with the slant guides. My guide sheet has an x-height of 6mm and slant angle of 55 degrees from the horizontal. I put it under the sheet I'm using for practice as it shows through but when I'm out of this paper (which might be quite soon) I'll print these out for practice. You are welcome to use it if you like.

 

GuideSheet-6mm-55deg.pdf

 

Salman

[texaspenman]

Looks like everyone is making excellent progress. Learning Copperplate is on my to do list, but first I want to perfect my Spencerian. I'm very impressed with what everyone has achieved. Keep up the awesome examples!

[caliken]

I often find that the learning process is indeed the most pleasurable part of calligraphy, the feeling when a particular stroke just falls into place after frustrating you for ages is just priceless. I'm finding Copperplate much more fun to learn than I had expected - which is not to say its easy :-)

I was practicing writing the word 'minimum' today and saw how the strokes I had practiced fell into place and suddenly made sense. For me learning calligraphy turns out to be developing the eye for the characteristics of various hands and once that is sufficiently developed the physical act of putting ink on paper becomes relaxed and natural. It does take some doing to get to that point though.

 

I know exactly how you feel. Copperplate writing is difficult and the sense of achievement when it all falls into place, is considerable. I remember being aware of this moment of realization with Copperplate, more than with any other style of writing. I firmly believe that anyone who is prepared to spend time on constructive practice, can do it.

 

Ken

Edited February 10, 2011 by caliken

[fuchsiaprincess]

I often find that the learning process is indeed the most pleasurable part of calligraphy, the feeling when a particular stroke just falls into place after frustrating you for ages is just priceless. I'm finding Copperplate much more fun to learn than I had expected - which is not to say its easy :-)

I was practicing writing the word 'minimum' today and saw how the strokes I had practiced fell into place and suddenly made sense. For me learning calligraphy turns out to be developing the eye for the characteristics of various hands and once that is sufficiently developed the physical act of putting ink on paper becomes relaxed and natural. It does take some doing to get to that point though.

 

I know exactly how you feel. Copperplate writing is difficult and the sense of achievement when it all falls into place, is considerable. I remember being aware of this moment of realization with Copperplate, more than with any other style of writing. I firmly believe that anyone who is prepared to spend time on constructive practice, can do it.

 

Ken

 

Ken,

 

I am interested in your thoughts on Copperplate vs. Spencerian, in terms on which form should one start to learn first, levels of difficulty, etc..

 

Thank you.

 

Warm regards,

Soki

Edited February 11, 2011 by fuchsiaprincess

[fuchsiaprincess]

OK, Salman. I'm in

 

I took 45 minutes on this little practice piece :

http://i1027.photobucket.com/albums/y331/fuchsiaprincess/IMGP2253.jpg

 

The main problem I had was the terrible bleed-through, which didn't go away despite changing inks The paper I used was HP laser printer paper (white) 120gsm. I used a Gillot 303 with one of the thicker handled oblique nib holder.

 

BTW, how often do you guys need to dip your pen? I'm finding it really frustrating as I run out of ink just as I'm getting into the swing of things.

 

I think I've already 'broken' one nib - one of the tines is bent during the upstroke

[bigstick]

You might do better with ink jet paper than laser paper. They are coated differently.

[Ghost Plane]

If you all knew what pleasure you are giving to those of us who can only watch and marvel...

[jglasgow]

This is EXACTLY the kinda thing I've been looking for...I'm a lurker, and I've been following this thread...even ordered "The Universal Penman" last night. Here's the question...I just bought a Pelikan 800 with the EF nib, and while I LOVE the pen, it obviously wasn't designed for Copperplate or Spencerian. Is there a pen that works well for both, as well as being a fine, everyday writing instrument...do I just need a different nib made, if so which one, or an entirely different pen...Additionally, the guide sheet is FABULOUS...

[Signum1]

Smk: Thanks for the guidelines. I will certainly print a few of your guidelines on paper.

 

Fuchsiaprincess: Try black fountain pen ink.