All Caps In Cursive

[PenJay]

I am trying to teach myself cursive handwriting, but I constantly run into one problem -- ALL CAPS. Every time I need to write all caps as in most of acronyms, business names, etc, I need to switch to my old ugly handwriting sort of printed letter because I simply can't figure out how to connect all those capital letters in cursive, and my own attempts haven't produce any acceptable results. Could anyone advice? Perhaps there are resources, websites or organizations that you know of? I've been trying to find them, but couldn't.

Thanks

[rcarlisle]

The short answer is you don't join Caps. All the Cursive Handwriting books I have read (and I have read alot of them!) say not to join all Caps. In fact they ususally say that Caps in your regular writing look better if you don't try to join the Upper case letter at the start to the lower case letters that follow it in the word. There are a few letters like A and H that are relative easy to join but I don't think it improves the look of my cursive if I use a join with the letter that follows them.

 

This is my take on your question. Let's see what other people say.

 

I think I neglected one aspect of your question. I assumed that you are learning Italic Cursive. If that is the case, most books recommend using the Roman Majuscules for your capilal letters. If you are learning another cursive hand I don't know what model you should use.

Edited December 10, 2010 by rcarlisle

[PenJay]

The short answer is you don't join Caps. All the Cursive Handwriting books I have read (and I have read alot of them!) say not to join all Caps. In fact they ususally say that Caps in your regular writing look better if you don't try to join the Upper case letter at the start to the lower case letters that follow it in the word. There are a few letters like A and H that are relative easy to join but I don't think it improves the look of my cursive if I use a join with the letter that follows them.

 

This is my take on your question. Let's see what other people say.

 

I think I neglected one aspect of your question. I assumed that you are learning Italic Cursive. If that is the case, most books recommend using the Roman Majuscules for your capilal letters. If you are learning another cursive hand I don't know what model you should use.

Thanks. I'm learning cursive from Stephen A. Ziller book. The point is I'm trying to make a transition to cursive, and stop trying to use my old ugly handwriting, and I want to be consistent, so I would like to find the style I like and feel comfortable with, no matter what instrument I use, even with a marker or a ballpoint.

Thanks again.

[GavH]

The short answer is you don't join Caps.

 

That is correct. I was fortunate enough to be be taught what we called 'joined up writing' at Primary school. Not joining capital letters was one of the basics.

[PenJay]

The short answer is you don't join Caps.

 

That is correct. I was fortunate enough to be be taught what we called 'joined up writing' at Primary school. Not joining capital letters was one of the basics.

I would like to be able to see some examples (better yet a lot of examples) of all capitals put together. Do you know of any resources?

Thanks

[Paddler]

I don't know what the formal rule is for writing all caps in a cursive hand. However, I think it looks confusing to see an acronym written with cursive caps. When I write all caps, I use block printing. This is probably wrong, but I do it in the interest of legibility. Call it "Scribe's License".

 

Paddler

[rcarlisle]

The short answer is you don't join Caps.

 

That is correct. I was fortunate enough to be be taught what we called 'joined up writing' at Primary school. Not joining capital letters was one of the basics.

I would like to be able to see some examples (better yet a lot of examples) of all capitals put together. Do you know of any resources?

Thanks

 

Look up Edward Johnston on the internet. He was the father of modern Calligraphy with the broad edged pen. If you can find his books in the library you can see examples of this. I scanned these two pages from Tom Gourdie's Italic Handwriting.

[msacco]

In all the examples of Spencerian and Ornamental Penmanship from the past Masters I've seen, I don't believe I've ever come across an all cap word.

I believe that's because they knew it didn't work/look right.

 

Mike s.

[caliken]

In all the examples of Spencerian and Ornamental Penmanship from the past Masters I've seen, I don't believe I've ever come across an all cap word.

I believe that's because they knew it didn't work/look right.

 

Mike s.

+1

[RobbW]

What about state abbreviations on correspondence envelopes, like CA for California or TX for Texas? Do you switch to, say, italics on the envelope for the state code, or use two Spencerian capitals?

[rcarlisle]

Penjay, I am going to stick my neck out and say that Spencerian and Copperplate are not good choices for reforming one's handwriting. They are beautiful and when I watch someone write Specerian I am amazed by the grace of both their writing and of the finished product. But you need a flexible nib and much more work to produce a good Spencerian or Copperplate hand. You won't be able to do it with a ball point or a marker or even ordinary fountain pens.

 

When I was a boy in the sixties I learned Palmer Cursive and I was always terrible at it. I never liked my handwriting. Two years ago I started relearning Italic Cursive(aka Chancery Cursive) after twenty years away from it. I read alot of books. If you look at the website for John Neal Bookseller you can find many books on handwriting, Italic, Spencerian, and Copperplate. I also checked books out of our local library. I used inter-library loan to get ahold of some rare books that are not in print any longer. I recommend Cursive Italic because even an ordinary person like me can learn to do a tolerable cursive italic for daily handwriting. That's what I use now. People compliment me on my handwriting. I know it is not as good as they think. But it is always legible and every once in a while even beautiful. And it is fun. And I can use a form of it with a pencil or a ball point or a non-italic fountain pen. With Spencerian and Copperplate you lose the thicks and thins that are intrinsic to their beauty if you don't use a flexie.

 

I don't mean to stop you from learning Spencerian. Caliken's examples blow me away. My grandmother wrote in a Copperplate hand with a flexible nib and my mother tells me that it was unbelievably beautiful. But I think that Italic Cursive is a better choice for handwriting reform. Someday I want to learn Spencerian and Copperplate, but first I want to improve my Chancery Cursive.

 

Read Teach Yourself Better Handwriting by Rosemary Sassoon and Gunnlaugur S E Briem. The best of all the books I've read about reforming your handwriting.

Edited December 13, 2010 by rcarlisle

[PenJay]

Penjay, I am going to stick my neck out and say that Spencerian and Copperplate are not good choices for reforming one's handwriting. They are beautiful and when I watch someone write Specerian I am amazed by the grace of both their writing and of the finished product. But you need a flexible nib and much more work to produce a good Spencerian or Copperplate hand. You won't be able to do it with a ball point or a marker or even ordinary fountain pens.

 

When I was a boy in the sixties I learned Palmer Cursive and I was always terrible at it. I never liked my handwriting. Two years ago I started relearning Italic Cursive(aka Chancery Cursive) after twenty years away from it. I read alot of books. If you look at the website for John Neal Bookseller you can find many books on handwriting, Italic, Spencerian, and Copperplate. I also checked books out of our local library. I used inter-library loan to get ahold of some rare books that are not in print any longer. I recommend Cursive Italic because even an ordinary person like me can learn to do a tolerable cursive italic for daily handwriting. That's what I use now. People compliment me on my handwriting. I know it is not as good as they think. But it is always legible and every once in a while even beautiful. And it is fun. And I can use a form of it with a pencil or a ball point or a non-italic fountain pen. With Spencerian and Copperplate you lose the thicks and thins that are intrinsic to their beauty if you don't use a flexie.

 

I don't mean to stop you from learning Spencerian. Caliken's examples blow me away. My grandmother wrote in a Copperplate hand with a flexible nib and my mother tells me that it was unbelievably beautiful. But I think that Italic Cursive is a better choice for handwriting reform. Someday I want to learn Spencerian and Copperplate, but first I want to improve my Chancery Cursive.

 

Read Teach Yourself Better Handwriting by Rosemary Sassoon and Gunnlaugur S E Briem. The best of all the books I've read about reforming your handwriting.

 

Thanks. And thank you all. I have to admit I am a bit disappointed -- I hoped to find the examples of even Palmer style all caps words, but perhaps you're right, the italics would look better, or even the block print. Still as I'm writing the Ziller (sort of Palmer) style of cursive it doesn't look good when I switch from it to italics. I will definitely try to look at the books recommended. Thanks

Edited December 17, 2010 by PenJay

[caliken]

I recommend Cursive Italic because even an ordinary person like me can learn to do a tolerable cursive italic for daily handwriting......I can use a form of it with a pencil or a ball point or a non-italic fountain pen. With Spencerian and Copperplate you lose the thicks and thins that are intrinsic to their beauty if you don't use a flexie......I think that Italic Cursive is a better choice for handwriting reform.

rcarlisle,

 

Your points are well made and you make a very strong case for Cursive Italic handwriting.

 

Ken

[caliken]

I have to admit I am a bit disappointed -- I hoped to find the examples of even Palmer style all caps words, but perhaps you're right, the italics would look better, or even the block print.

PenJay,

 

I can understand your frustration.

 

Although beautiful in isolation at the beginning of a word, these letters look terrible when an attempt is made to link them together in ordinary handwriting.

 

An exception is in the use of Capitals in Spencerian signatures where considerable effort is made to produce a cohesive whole with a strong sense of design. When produced by the hand of a Master, they can be really beautiful and miniature pieces of artwork in their own right.

 

This is different from everyday useage where, to the best of my knowledge, to produce complete words with them was never the intention when these letters evolved.

 

In Copperplate or Spencerian, if I want to emphasize something, I write the words with heavier shading. In postcodes where capitals together are unavoidable, I use simple Italic capitals. I think that this looks fine if the weight of these letters balances with the flex writing.

 

Ken

 

(edited, after reading wykpenguin's post)

Edited December 17, 2010 by caliken

[wykpenguin]

What about state abbreviations on correspondence envelopes, like CA for California or TX for Texas? Do you switch to, say, italics on the envelope for the state code, or use two Spencerian capitals?

 

From what I gather on the IAMPETH website, they didn't switch to Italic, they switched to print. Normally, the only case in which majuscules are joined is for initials and signatures so the reasonable maximum is 3 capitals, keeping in mind that joining of all capitals was not a must in Spencerian signatures. On envelopes, the name is in Spencerian and the rest of the address was in print.

[Bluecloud]

I, too, have this problem. I've "retrained" a type of cursive taught well before my time and now that I work in an IT-environment with all these 3 letter abbreviations, I've had thoughts of how to write them. I've settled with standard "printed" letters. (Which suits me well - they stand out like a sore thumb - I'm not a friend of the "initiated gang" abbreviations that only few of us actually understand. Just think of how you tried to get the "lingo" here on FPN when new... MBRG, NOS, PFM, SITB...)

 

When I look at how things were written in the time of old time cursive and dip pens it seems that abbreviations were written slightly different from than we do now, at least in Sweden. They weren't done in all caps, but rather just very abbreviated, one example is f.Kr (BC) which could be written beautifully in cursive.

[RobbW]

Thanks, I'll see how that looks. Up to now I've been doing Spencerian on the state abbreviation--not joined, just the two letters together. I think it looks nice since there are only two majuscules, but I'll try it with block printing. At any rate, it will be easier for automatic readers and recent high-school graduates to make sense of it in print. :roflmho:

 

What about state abbreviations on correspondence envelopes, like CA for California or TX for Texas? Do you switch to, say, italics on the envelope for the state code, or use two Spencerian capitals?

 

From what I gather on the IAMPETH website, they didn't switch to Italic, they switched to print. Normally, the only case in which majuscules are joined is for initials and signatures so the reasonable maximum is 3 capitals, keeping in mind that joining of all capitals was not a must in Spencerian signatures. On envelopes, the name is in Spencerian and the rest of the address was in print.