Calligraphy

[tomagig]

Hello,

I know im new here but IMHO we could maybe use a calligraphy section. I just bought a Lamy Safari(my fist fountain pen) and heard it was good for calligraphy. Seeing as how calligraphy is a big part of fountain pens we could maybe use that section. I guess I will just use this section for calligraphy. Just some of my rambles.

[bitterwonder]

Some people seem to be really wild about calligraphy; it would be nice for them to have a place where they can think about calligraphy.

[tomagig]

It would be nice I plan to start I bought a book online. I hope to have calligraphy and wood turning for some hobbies. You can only programg web sites and play minecraft for so many hours, before insanity sets in.

[Daisy]

Depends on how you define calligraphy, I think. If you define it in its broadest sense -- the art of beautiful writing -- I'd think that's what the Penmanship forum is for. But if you're looking at a narrower definition of strictly decorative writing, such as the chancery italic and blackletter and other letterforms no longer widely used as everyday writing but as art, then you might think another more specific forum (or subforum of Penmanship) would better suit your needs. But it's really all down to how you are defining "calligraphy" because that word sure does mean a lot of things.

 

 

 

 

 

 

(Edited for speeling erorrs)

Edited November 18, 2010 by Daisy

[caliken]

  On 11/18/2010 at 4:05 AM, Daisy said:

Depends on how you define calligraphy, I think. If you define it in its broadest sense -- the art of beautiful writing -- I'd think that's what the Penmanship forum is for.

I agree with the above comment from Daisy.

 

At first, this seems a logical idea - a separate sub-forum for those specifically interested in calligraphy, but I’m against it for the following reason -

 

Browsing through the Penmanship forum could be the starting point for Calligraphers who initially thought that Calligraphy wasn’t for them. Inevitably, a separate forum would be considered elitist, and a turn-off to many who write beautifully but consider their writing to be “just handwriting”. They wouldn’t even look at a Calligraphy forum.

 

Penmanship seems to have slightly different meanings in different parts of the world. To me, Penmanship means ‘Beautiful Writing’ which is another way of saying ‘Calligraphy’.

 

Pen lovers and those interested in handwriting tend to be gentle, self-deprecating souls and there are many who contribute to the Penmanship forum whose handwriting is calligraphic in any definition of the word. We would be much poorer for their non-contribution to a specific ‘Calligraphy’ forum.

 

In my view, the endangered species known as fountain-pen users, should be encouraged in Calligraphy, not confined in separate boxes.

 

Ken

Edited November 18, 2010 by caliken

[tomagig]

Buhumbug.

I do agree with you on part of it, but what if(hypothetical) there were to a mass of "calligraphers" and they wanted to post/read tutorials, review fonts, and styles, ext... Maybe if penmanship ever gets flooded with topics of the sort we can revisit this. I will just start all my relevant topics with "Calligraphy:". I think at least a sub form would be nice.

Edited November 18, 2010 by tomagig

[caliken]

  On 11/18/2010 at 11:18 AM, tomagig said:

Buhumbug.

I do agree with you on part of it, but what if(hypothetical) there were to a mass of "calligraphers" and they wanted to post/read tutorials, review fonts, and styles, ext... Maybe if penmanship ever gets flooded with topics of the sort we can revisit this. I will just start all my relevant topics with "Calligraphy:". I think at least a sub form would be nice.

IMHO A separate sub-forum is an unnecessary duplication.

 

On a cursory search, the first five online dictionaries I checked, give 'calligraphy' as a definition of 'penmanship'.

 

We already have a forum on 'Calligraphy' - it's called 'Penmanship' :bonk:

 

Ken

Edited November 18, 2010 by caliken

[Rena]

  On 11/18/2010 at 12:36 PM, caliken said:

 

IMHO A separate sub-forum is an unnecessary duplication.

 

On a cursory search, the first five online dictionaries I checked, give 'calligraphy' as a definition of 'penmanship'.

 

We already have a forum on 'Calligraphy' - it's called 'Penmanship' :bonk:

 

Ken

 

+1 Tomagig, I think if you'll look through the many threads in this forum — Penmanship — you'll find that you've come to the right place. Many calligraphers are already sharing/posting and reading this forum. I think if you'll spend some time looking through writing samples here, you might be surprised how blurred the line becomes when you try to make a differentiation.

Edited November 18, 2010 by Rena

[brunico]

  On 11/18/2010 at 10:55 AM, caliken said:

At first, this seems a logical idea - a separate sub-forum for those specifically interested in calligraphy, but I’m against it for the following reason -

 

Browsing through the Penmanship forum could be the starting point for Calligraphers who initially thought that Calligraphy wasn’t for them. Inevitably, a separate forum would be considered elitist, and a turn-off to many who write beautifully but consider their writing to be “just handwriting”. They wouldn’t even look at a Calligraphy forum.

 

Penmanship seems to have slightly different meanings in different parts of the world.

 

Ken

 

+1

 

Me, I think of penmanship as how you use your pen, maybe even stretching it to beautiful handwriting, and of calligraphy as formal, display work. So for me, penmanship means improving ligatures, making the journal you keep look a bit nicer, that sort of thing, so it's about technique rather than technique and materials, while calligraphy means designing posters, page-width flourishes, india ink, the arrangement of words on a page, visual balance, etc.

 

But not everyone will make my particular distinction, and even for me there's quite a bit of crossover.

 

The pemnanship forum isn't all that busy, anyway. Most people are here to drool over fountain pens and chew the fat over different nibs. It's the same with camera forums: most of them are arguing about different lenses and cameras, but somewhere there's a photo subforum where people are out taking photographs!

 

And a few words if you go reading lots of threads about your new pen. The Safari italic nibs aren't razor-sharp, but they're more than serviceable. Caliken has shown work with them here, and no one ever says "oh, that would have looked so much better if you'd use expensive nib x." I've never had a single problem with any of my Safaris. On internet forums more people write with problems rather than praise. A lot of us here will say you made an excellent choice.

 

I've written and scribbled with the 1.1mm italic nibs for years, and sometimes I use the 1.5 or 1.9 for practice because they're better at showing what I'm doing to form the letter.

 

Anyway, good luck with your calligraphy!

 

And I thought I'd share a random bit of beautiful handwriting I came across last night: http://my-calligraphy-blog.blogspot.com/2009/11/italic-handwriting.html (you can click to enlarge the picture).

[caliken]

  On 11/18/2010 at 4:31 PM, brunico said:

I've never had a single problem with any of my Safaris. On internet forums more people write with problems rather than praise. A lot of us here will say you made an excellent choice.

+1

[tomagig]

Thanks

I just got it and am in love.

[Paddler]

If you were given the task of separating all of the posts in the Penmanship Forum into "Penmanship" and "Calligraphy" categories, you would quickly run into trouble. The dividing line ravels into a rather wide gray area. It would be like trying to take a closeup picture of the horizon.

 

Paddler

[curiouslizard]

I want to add my voice to those who view calligraphy, the art of beautiful writing as penmanship. Palmer, Business,Italic... it doesn't matter because penmanship is about the written word upon the page.

[tomagig]

Calligraphy is a form of penmanship so it should have a subform.

[Bronze]

- Generally I share Calikens view.

 

However if a designated Calligraphy forum would attract more people to the forum to share their work then I would be all for it.

[caliken]

  On 11/19/2010 at 3:26 PM, Paddler said:

If you were given the task of separating all of the posts in the Penmanship Forum into "Penmanship" and "Calligraphy" categories, you would quickly run into trouble.

Paddler

 

I agree.

 

'Calligraphy' isn't part of 'Penmanship' - they are synonymous and there are dictionary definitions to support this view.

 

The Penmanship forum already covers all forms of 'beautiful writing' whether formally structured or personally handwritten and who is to judge what is 'beautiful writing' and what isn't?

 

I reiterate the view that more casual visitors to the Penmanship forum are likely to develop an interest in more formal writing if they come across it by accident. A separate 'Calligraphy' forum would be elitist and divisive and would deter the casual viewer from entering it in the first place.

 

I'm firmly of the view that Calligraphy/Penmanship is best served by as broad an intake of interest as is possible. In my view, further division and categorization would be counter-productive.

 

Where would it end?

 

A separate forum for those who are interested in 'Italic' and have no interest in the flexible nib and one for 'Spencerian' for those who never use an edged nib?

 

The 'Penmanship' forum is a wonderfully diverse depository for many types of 'beautiful writing' and we are lucky to have it.

 

Please leave it as it is.

 

Ken

Edited November 20, 2010 by caliken

[tomagig]

I can learn to play nice. Plus with less sections every post reaches more people.

[caliken]

  On 11/20/2010 at 12:48 PM, tomagig said:

Plus with less sections every post reaches more people.

That's my point, exactly!

 

Thanks for being so understanding and I'm sorry if I appear to have come on a bit heavy!

 

(I do tend to go on a bit!)

 

 

Ken

[tomagig]

Every one has an opinion. As my teacher said if everyone followed the leader and someone said I think wheels should be square. Where would we be...square wheels.

[tomagig]

Hello,

Does anyone know some good online calligraphy tutorials?