Nib Charts To Be Pinned

[Bo Bo Olson]

"""""pf_4e7c851_NibChart0310"""""

Don't help much. I was able to get this into my computer and see what a chaos factory nib sizes are. I was not able to link it into a thread.

 

There are no 'normal' nib sizes. There is nothing anywhere even close.

 

So If you could be so kind whom ever you are with the charts and there are a couple of you, to post them to this thread so a moderator can pull and paste to a pinned thread.

Then we can all see how varied each company truly is in it's own sizing of nibs, we could have a pinned quick reference to examine.

 

No more.... :bonk:

 

PS there is a Pelikan Fat Waterman nib range.

And all everyone talks about is the skinny range.

 

And Pelikan is a skinny range compared to Parker and Sheaffer and a couple of others. Yet none of the Parker/Sheaffer folks fesses up to being fatter than Pelikan....how odd. :blink:

 

 

One more try.

I can copy all I want, it just will not allow me to paste...

It's charts that some folks have hidden away, for rain on you days; that I want here.

Edited November 11, 2010 by Bo Bo Olson

[Joane]

Good luck on that! ITA, there are no "normal" nib sizes. Not only that, but I have pens where the nibs are not even the same for the same supposed nib size and identical pen model, pick your brand. I have a MB144 F that writes just the way I like it. Tried another MB144 F in the store as a potential "backup" and it wrote like a M. I have four Parker #94 medium italic nibs and they all write different. I could go on and on.

 

I guess there are some general tendencies that can be gleaned about nibs, but I've come to the conclusion that nibs are like fingerprints; no two are alike.

[Bo Bo Olson]

I've never gotten obsessed on it, if it's marked EF, or F or M or B and writes so to MK1 eyeball...I don't have a micrometer any more to pull out.

 

Does the nib write well, is it close enough to what I wanted a Fine say.....then it don't bother me.

 

As soon as I get my self re-corked I'm going to spend some time with Richard's stroke chart....Though I'd be more interested in a medium-fine than a fat EF.

 

Have you ever noticed it's not my broads fatter than yours, it's my Fine or EF is skinnier than yours.......to much gel pens in the genes. :blink:

[Tim Self]

I've never gotten obsessed on it, if it's marked EF, or F or M or B and writes so to MK1 eyeball...I don't have a micrometer any more to pull out.

 

Does the nib write well, is it close enough to what I wanted a Fine say.....then it don't bother me.

 

As soon as I get my self re-corked I'm going to spend some time with Richard's stroke chart....Though I'd be more interested in a medium-fine than a fat EF.

 

Have you ever noticed it's not my broads fatter than yours, it's my Fine or EF is skinnier than yours.......to much gel pens in the genes. :blink:

 

 

Isn't that what we're all really looking for? LOL

[Bo Bo Olson]

I went in and dug, and got a few charts…but there are more.

 

Where ever I got this chart, it would not work right, Ie I’m too stupid to link…

so I did it very poorly, but it was for my own use.

 

 

There is a chart that does this so much better. That is what I’m after.

Making a chart yellow page.

 

Size Aurora Bexley Nakaya Omas Pelikan Pilot Sailor

SABITOGI .1mm

XXF .10mm

XF .35mm .18mm .30mm .25mm .23mm*

F .45mm .45mm .28mm .40mm .40mm .35mm .30mm

FM .36mm

M .55mm .60mm .49mm .65mm .70mm .60mm .50mm

B .60mm .85mm .60mm .75mm .85mm .70mm .60mm

BB 1.0mm .95mm 1.0mm

3B 1.3mm

Music/Stub .9mm 1.2mm 1.15mm 1.15mm

Zoom .25 to .7mm

IT 1.0mm

OF&OFR .6mm

OM&OMR .8mm .70mm .65mm

OB&OBR .95mm .80mm

OBB .95mm 1.0mm

O3B 1.3mm

 

 

Yes found it……The real chart and not Bo Bo’s Blundering

 

The rest are cut and pasted from other posts...thanks fellas.

.

"""Look at the nib widths for different manufacturers in this chart on Mottishaw's site. Then forget you saw it.(The link seems to have vanished.)

 

For example, I have three Pelikan M800s that see regular use in the rotation. All are unmodified fine nibs (supposedly .40 mm), just as they came from the factory...but each one produces a different width line. I even tested the widest one head to head using identical inks and papers. With one I get a dry, less than .40 mm line. Another is a medium-fine firehose. The third is in-between. I like them all. Vive la difference.

 

There's another nib comparison chart that may be helpful here:

 

http://www.nibs.com/...ngSizespage.htm

Rick

 

 

Richard’s stroke chart.

Richard Binder compiled this information on the subject: http://www.richardsp...e=pens/nibs.htm

 

I have noticed a tremendous variation in line width not only from brand to brand but even within one brand itself. I had two Bexley Americanas - both marked with a fine nib and one wrote like a fine and the other was identical to my medium nibs. One of the problems that affects width is wetness - the fine nibbed pen that wrote like a medium was considerably wetter, hence a thicker line than the drier one. The manufacturing tolerances for line width in fountain pens is not standardized in any way and hence is not very precise and quite variable. The tolerance specifications are very loose so that there is a general width expectation but it is not precision manufactured plus or minus very high tolerances like machine tools or aircraft or engine parts. Part of the reason is that width is largely subjective - subjective to flow (ie wetness which varies with the feed adjustment, type of ink, etc.) and most importantly subjective to the type of PAPER one is writing on.

 

Paper is one of the most important considerations if you need a fine line. For one thing do not use recycled paper - it will soak up your ink and make a fine nib write like a broad!!!! I have experimented with many types of paper and pen nibs over many years and I can take a medium nib with 5 different types of paper and have 5 significantly different widths ranging from broad to fine. The higher the paper quality (i.e. Clairefontaine) the thinner the line.

 

One thing I have found to be universally true however when it comes to fine nibs and that is that the Asian brands in general write much finer than their European counterparts. Every one of the many Asian pens I own writes finer than my other brands - consistently. Some - like the Nakayas are known for their fine nibs - so fine in fact that if you want a fine you order a medium because a Nakaya medium writes like a fine! So, you may want to consider a Sailor, Namiki or Pilot or a Chinese brand.

 

Good Luck!

 

John

Krewalk.com

 

 

Montblanc shows accurate representations of writing using each of their nib widths here: http://www.montblanc...hp?searchresult

 

In deciding what line width you like, write out the alphabet in small case letters, using your normal sized handwriting - the size in which you write most often. Miniscules are small case letters without ascenders or descenders: a,c,e,m,n,o,r,s,u,v,w,x

 

Carefully measure the height of each miniscule (and just the miniscules) in millimeters and average the series.

 

Divide the average height of your miniscules by 5 to get the line width (not nib width) of the nib that should produce classically proportionate handwriting without filling in your loops.

 

If you like a bolder handwriting, add 0.2 mm to the calculation. If you like a finer look, subtract 0.2 mm.

 

Remember this calculation applies to line width, not nib width - because nibs of the same width but differing shapes can lay down lines of differing width.

 

You can try out different nib widths at any Montblanc Boutique and at most Brick & Mortar Pen Stores.

 

Have fun. Burn some ink.

Ray

Atlanta, Georgia

 

 

Nib sizes aren't universal. Usually Japanese pens have finer nibs than say, a Lamy or other European manufacturer. And no, there are more nib sizes than that, such as oblique. There are stubs, cursive italics, crisp italics... etc.

 

 

This post has been edited by HenryLouis: 22 June 2009 - 02:30 AM

 

MISSING is the Pelikan nib writing chart that Henry posted........from this cut and paste...it just won't cut and paste, for me.

 

There must be more charts…I know I saw them.

 

The idea is to get enough info to make a sticky or something that is penned so we can cut to the chase, with out inventing the wheel all the time.

Edited November 12, 2010 by Bo Bo Olson

[Bo Bo Olson]

I had expected more help here.

It's not enough to be worth pinning.

[penrivers]

I had expected more help here.

It's not enough to be worth pinning.

Olson, I think you have to check, revise, and edit all your posts and make a good book of them. Nibs, vintage and moderns, pen nacionalitis, costs etc. Greetings.

[sexauerw]

Bo Bo,

I don't get a chance to log on every day so I just saw this thread. Here is a list of the line widths produced by my pens, as measured. All are on the same paper, but unfortunately not the same ink. But it's the best data I have, and just over 100 different pens. I should have pulled the Pelikan M200 XXF from the list, that one is not a factory nib. That nib came from Richard Binder, Pelikan does not make an XXF width. I think all of the others on the list are factory nibs. I did pull all of the italics, stubs and other customized nibs as I was sure that you were looking for data on standard nibs. I just missed the Pelikan.

 

List is sorted by actual measured line width, not by nominal size letter.

 

http://i77.photobucket.com/albums/j66/sexauerw/NibWidths_Page_1.jpg

 

http://i77.photobucket.com/albums/j66/sexauerw/NibWidths_Page_2.jpg

 

http://i77.photobucket.com/albums/j66/sexauerw/NibWidths_Page_3.jpg

Edited November 13, 2010 by sexauerw

[Bo Bo Olson]

That is a fantastic private list...tops. :notworthy1: :clap1:

 

 

As soon as this thread sinks again, I'll pull the three 'chart's I found, and yours, so we can have a pinned Chart list thread, or the start of one.

Mottishaw's site, and a couple I am missing show there is no 'normal'. So many's bitter complaints are rumor induced.

 

Like I never hear any Waterman fans saying my EF is not narrower than a Pelikan's EF.

It is true their Fine is narrower.

Nor do I hear any Waterman fan, say, My Broad ain't as broad as a Pelikan Broad....oh shame...oh shame.

Nor was any Parker fella, ever involved in the narrow as a gel pen debate. A chart shows why.

 

There is such a company scatter of 'normal' sizes, that there can be no "normal". And that is before normal variance.

 

The exactness some demand, can only be achieved by a nibmeister.

[penrivers]

Thanks for the fine information Mr. Sexauerw, I think it had to take greats amounts of time and work to measure those

widths it has a lot of util data for all of us but lets not forget that we in the world have diferent heights, weights, barometric pressures in the atmosfer, inks, papers, angles of writing, and above all diferent hand pressure on the nibs etc. Many diferent parameters for every person with a fountain pen in hand. But in other way it gives you a general and invaluable panoramic view of the behavior and performance of this nibs, so thanks again. greetings.

[sexauerw]

Thanks for the fine information Mr. Sexauerw, I think it had to take greats amounts of time and work to measure those

widths it has a lot of util data for all of us but lets not forget that we in the world have diferent heights, weights, barometric pressures in the atmosfer, inks, papers, angles of writing, and above all diferent hand pressure on the nibs etc. Many diferent parameters for every person with a fountain pen in hand. But in other way it gives you a general and invaluable panoramic view of the behavior and performance of this nibs, so thanks again. greetings.

 

Absolutely. I built the list for my own use so that I could choose which pen to use based on whether I wanted a thick or thin line that day. The list grew over time as my collection expanded. When this thread came up I was just happy to be able to share the data that I had. And these line widths represent the pens in my collection, most of which were acquired as used pens which means that I do not know their history or whether they have had any previous regrinding. Even without that, there is a wide variation in line width just within one model and grade because most manufacturers don't have very tight quality control on nib width. They pay much more attention to smoothness than to width, and we all know what a joke that is these days.

 

Here's another look at the data, this really shows the width variation. There isn't much difference between an extra-fine and a fine, and there's a huge overlap between either of those and medium. Only the broad stands out as different, and I don't have enough of those to make my sampling statistically significant.

http://i77.photobucket.com/albums/j66/sexauerw/NibWidthChart.jpg

[penrivers]

Thanks for the fine information Mr. Sexauerw, I think it had to take greats amounts of time and work to measure those

widths it has a lot of util data for all of us but lets not forget that we in the world have diferent heights, weights, barometric pressures in the atmosfer, inks, papers, angles of writing, and above all diferent hand pressure on the nibs etc. Many diferent parameters for every person with a fountain pen in hand. But in other way it gives you a general and invaluable panoramic view of the behavior and performance of this nibs, so thanks again. greetings.

 

Absolutely. I built the list for my own use so that I could choose which pen to use based on whether I wanted a thick or thin line that day. The list grew over time as my collection expanded. When this thread came up I was just happy to be able to share the data that I had. And these line widths represent the pens in my collection, most of which were acquired as used pens which means that I do not know their history or whether they have had any previous regrinding. Even without that, there is a wide variation in line width just within one model and grade because most manufacturers don't have very tight quality control on nib width. They pay much more attention to smoothness than to width, and we all know what a joke that is these days.

 

Here's another look at the data, this really shows the width variation. There isn't much difference between an extra-fine and a fine, and there's a huge overlap between either of those and medium. Only the broad stands out as different, and I don't have enough of those to make my sampling statistically significant.

http://i77.photobucket.com/albums/j66/sexauerw/NibWidthChart.jpg

Thanks again. Have a nice sunday. Greetings.

[Bo Bo Olson]

That last one is one real killer chart!

 

They all were, but that last one should make lots think.

Edited November 14, 2010 by Bo Bo Olson

[penrivers]

Yes, lots of think, specially when some mediums nibs are thiner than extrafines in the last chart. Strange there is no standarization.

[Bo Bo Olson]

Each company has a 'standard', it's own.

 

As some of the charts show.

 

 

Thanks for the help...I'll hit up the moderator now that we got a very very good start.

[desdedez]

 

( ... )

 

Absolutely. I built the list for my own use so that I could choose which pen to use based on whether I wanted a thick or thin line that day. The list grew over time as my collection expanded. When this thread came up I was just happy to be able to share the data that I had. And these line widths represent the pens in my collection, most of which were acquired as used pens which means that I do not know their history or whether they have had any previous regrinding. Even without that, there is a wide variation in line width just within one model and grade because most manufacturers don't have very tight quality control on nib width. They pay much more attention to smoothness than to width, and we all know what a joke that is these days.

 

Here's another look at the data, this really shows the width variation. There isn't much difference between an extra-fine and a fine, and there's a huge overlap between either of those and medium. Only the broad stands out as different, and I don't have enough of those to make my sampling statistically significant.

http://i77.photobucket.com/albums/j66/sexauerw/NibWidthChart.jpg

 

Thanks for posting this chart and the previous table. It is a very interesting study. Just for curiosity, which instrument/method/technique did you use for measuring the line width with such precision?

[Bo Bo Olson]

Sorry, but I'm too ignorant to paste this stuff together properly, so it could be pinned as planned.

 

But as one can see, there is only the company norm.