Ring Top Pen Chains

[pen2paper]

Sorry, though I specifically collect old photos with identifiable garment fasteners, I've Yet to see a fountain pen visibly on the chain, or ribbon.. which May, (or not), indicate the object was in the small pocket, or tucked within the vest or suit jacket.

The one entirely visible chatelaine had a pencil, and was worn by a woman.. in profile, as her bustled figure obviously was The feature of the composition.

p2p

edit for speeling

Edited November 15, 2010 by pen2paper

[jar]

Thanks for all of the replies but no one has yet answered my question, which is:

 

"Can anyone point me to illustrated advertisements, catalog descriptions or photographs of a man wearing a vest pocket pen with a chain?"

 

Please, please, please?

 

I really doubt it.

 

When I wore a vest and pen all you would see is the chain itself. You would have no idea if there was a pen or a watch or even a fob on the part in the pocket.

[Shangas]

I'm sorry, Belle, but the truth is...no such photo would ever have existed. The way you wore a vest-pocket fountain pen is that you clipped it to your double albert watch-chain. The pocket-watch went into one pocket of your waistcoat and the pen went into the other pocket on the opposite side. You would never actually see the pen itself.

[jar]

I did find this but I imagine since it is a double drop Albert Chain one end is a watch and the other has either a pen or locket.

[tknechtel]

That site with all the watch chains for sale is really fascinating!

[Belles-lettres]

I've still been on the trail of a definitive answer. To date, no images, either as advertisements (which surely you'd think would show them) or photographs of gentlemen.

 

However, I have found five pens with their original ribbons still intact. There is one on FleaBay right now: 170610718992

 

At this point, I have no period proof whatever that they were worn on chains. Someone prove me wrong, please!

[Shangas]

Pens like those were worn on WATCH CHAINS. By that, I mean, double albert pocketwatch chains. They were designed to be short pens (about three inches long) so that a man could clip them to his watch-chain and wear it in his waistcoat pocket. These pens were called Vest Pocket fountain pens, often abbreviated 'VP' pens. They're even advertised as VP pens, or V-pens. I don't have a photograph with me, but I DO know that some ringtop fountain pens have this information heat-stamped into their barrels. For example, it would be a 'Waterman Model 52V', meaning a Model 52 Waterman fountain pen, vest-pocket size. Maybe someone can offer a photo of one of these pens. I know they exist, but I'm too lazy to trawl through the millions of posts here to find the photos...

 

I have a gold vest-pocket pen from the 1920s and I wear it on my double albert watch-chain all the time.

 

The thing is, although we know all this to be true, you will NEVER find a photo asking what you want. They simply don't exist.

 

To use a vest-pocket pen, you took the pen out of your pocket, unscrewed the pen, put the chain and the cap into your pocket and then wrote with the pen. Or, if the watch-chain was long enough, you posted the cap and wrote with the pen. But the thing is, these pens were SMALL. They were designed to be used to write quick notes and reminders when you were on the move, with a pen that you would never lose. It's very very unlikely that there'd be a cameraman there lining up a shot for something that people would have not considered important.

 

http://i12.photobucket.com/albums/a215/Fruffles/Clothing/redshirt.jpg

 

I took that photograph a few weeks ago for Chinese New Year (it's tradition to wear red). In the right pocket (left in the photo) is my railroad pocketwatch. In the left pocket (right in the photo) is my vest-pocket fountain pen.

 

Now, you can see the bow and the crown of my watch on the left. But you can't see my vest pocket fountain pen. But that's the only thing I keep on that other chain - I bought the pen specifically for that purpose. There could be hundreds of vintage photos out there with men wearing double albert chains similar to mine with vest-pocket pens clipped to them, but the point is - you'll never know.

 

And in case anyone is wondering what the pen looks like...This is the watch, chain and pen all together and out of my pockets:

 

http://i12.photobucket.com/albums/a215/Fruffles/Watch%20Photographs/DSC06828.jpg

 

It's a 1925 Wahl Art Deco with a Greek Key pattern.

Edited March 31, 2011 by Shangas

[Vintagepens]

I certainly sympathize with the desire for hard evidence, but at the moment I can't cite anything -- though I have seen period ads for ringtop pens (and pencils) which specifically recommend their use on watch chains and fobs. There are probably also mentions to be found in the catalogs scanned and downloadable from the PCA website.

 

May I emphasize, too, that the "vest pocket" nomenclature is not insignificant: the terminology is from the period, and is not a modern collector coinage. Women did not wear vests, by and large, so it is safe to say that a short ringtop pen sold as a vest pocket model would indeed be expected to be worn, by men at least, on a chain (women wore ringtops on ribbons as well as on chains, but I don't think you'll find many photos of men wearing any vest accessories suspended on anything other than a chain!).

 

Note too that one does run across short ringtop pens with men's names on them, so they were by no means all used by women.

[waterman1924]

Wow, they really look nice but,,, How do you use your pen? Is'ent the chain way to short to make using it feasible?

[waterman1924]

DUH, Ok am an idiot... I will answer my own question. I imagine you just unclip the pen? :ltcapd:

[jrantala]

No actual picture found, but here is a page from Swan catalog 1927 which discusses the uses of ring-top pens for ladies and gents!

 

-jari

 

[jar]

DUH, Ok am an idiot... I will answer my own question. I imagine you just unclip the pen? :ltcapd:

 

Actually I usually just uncapped it.

[waterman1924]

DUH, Ok am an idiot... I will answer my own question. I imagine you just unclip the pen? :ltcapd:

 

Actually I usually just uncapped it.

 

 

That makes sense... Then you dont have to fiddle with the cap.

[USMCMom]

My uncle was a furrier and I remember a chain, pocket watch and a pen. I was young, so I don't know what kind of pen or watch, but it was a gold chain and he would use the pen every once in a while and I remember the cap dangled from part of the chain. So, I guess he unscrewed the pen from the cap, unless of course, it was one that pulled off, but I doubt it.

Edited March 31, 2011 by USMCMom

[Shangas]

For those who are curious about the vest-pocket pens...

 

You unscrew the pen from the cap (which is clipped to your watch-chain) and then write with the pen while leaving the cap on the chain (or tucked into your waistcoat pocket). The length of the chain in no way inhibits your ability to use the pen. It's not attached TO the pen. Only to the cap. And you don't write with caps.

[jar]

Remember, theses pens were not meant for general correspondence, they were for notes or signatures while out of the house, office or club.

[Shangas]

Hi Jar, yes you're right. I mentioned that in one of my other posts...

 

But the thing is, these pens were SMALL. They were designed to be used to write quick notes and reminders when you were on the move, with a pen that you would never lose. It's very very unlikely that there'd be a cameraman there lining up a shot for something that people would have not considered important.

[waterman1924]

Pretty cool... I just bought me a leather button dress vest, a double chain and a pocket watch... I already have the ring top silver pen. I'll be sporting it soon....

[Shangas]

I'll be interested to see photos of that, W1924. Double Albert chains are nice, but they can be hard to find. And the antique ones cost fortunes.

[waterman1924]

I have a nice leather blazer and the vest will match nicely. I'll have to post a photo...