Genuine?

[streeton]

These pens only cost around $5 retail at office supply stores, why would anyone buy one on eBay?

 

Any why would anyone counterfeit a pen that only costs $5 for a real one?

 

 

No retail in Australia for jotters unless you want to spend US35 on the stainless steel version. You don't know how good you've got it. I have no choice but to use ebay.

 

MLK, I have 2 Made in England brass threaded jotters with date code LE - 1983 and I also have some P-script jottters with the recessed buttons including quite a few jotter mechanical pencils in that combination. I think Parker were using up old stocks of recessed buttons that were then stamped with the P-script.

 

The P-script has been used since at least 2001 and possibly 2000 in other Parker pens (and I suspect the Jotter). I have a matt black Parker Classic date coded U.111 (1st qtr 2001) which is stamped with the P-script. I am sure ceejaybee and others can be of some assistance here.

 

More grist for the mill.

Edited October 28, 2010 by streeton

[MLKirk]

Ouch! My sympathies, Streeton.

 

But, to make you feel less neglected, any of the fun Jotters have to be bought online anyway. All we have in the US stores is stainless and an occasional blue or black one. Most of the stores have stopped carrying Parker.

Edited October 28, 2010 by MLKirk

[ceejaybee]

Thanks Mike, good info as usual!

 

Streeton - did you say the 'D' word again???? I neglected to mention last night (on purpose) that my English jotter has the 1984 IC datecode so I guess I beat you by nearly 2 years, I think again this is just a case of Parker UK using up remaining stock of brass actuators, and that Parker USA had made the change in 1982. Of course some may argue that the datecode is from 1974 but I think we decided in a previous thread that datecodes weren't in use (again) until 1979.

 

I know very little about the modern Parkers and the P logo but I guess once the decision had been made (in 1999?) all the products would eventually sport it once remaining stock had been used. The P recessed button makes perfect sense, another mini chapter in the jotters history? Maybe the dome button was only used after Parker had designed it specially for the Anniversary models in 2004?

 

Again with Parker nothing appears set in stone, change takes time to implement, for instance, I was recently gifted a beautiful sterling sonnet BP, the 'New for 2010' chrome trimmed style and it has a 2008 datecode and the now discontinued P logo! so I guess the Kids will have it on Ebay as a 'Preproduction Prototype' after I'm gone! :roflmho:

 

Oh and +1 for buying Jotters via ebay, situation is much the same here in the UK, little choice and higher prices and that's if you can find them.

[FOX]

Let me pass along a little tip that I have learned over the years, as year by year, more and more of the products I loved were no longer being made or sold.

 

When you find something you like, buy enough of them to last you the rest of your life, while they are still being made and sold.

 

Nothing is made more than a few months today, and even if it is, the quality of it changes every few months now.

 

So when I found a pair of shoes I really liked, I bought enough pairs of them to last me several decades. Because I know by next year, they will be impossible to get.

 

When I was in the office supply store and saw that a stainless steel jotter pen can actually be bought for only around $5, I bought everyone they had, and when I was at a different store and saw they had some, I bought all of those too. This way, say I lose mine 5 or 10 years from now, when they don't make or sell them anymore, I can just pull another fresh new one out of the closet.

 

Reading the slight differences in this pen in the posts above was really interesting and made me look at the ones I still have in packages, and the one I carry around and the one in my desk, and seems I have some of every type and never really noticed those differences before. Some made in USA, some in UK. I even noticed that one was really much thiner and slim than the rest of them. I wonder why that is?

 

I noticed recently also that they sell a pen and pencil set in the all stainless, so I got a few of those too, because they are only around $10 in the stores for the SET.

 

I just looked at the websites of Office Depot and Office Max, and they have the all stainless pen listed at $10 and $20 on their websites. That is crazy, because they are NOT that expensive in the actual stores. Perhaps the stores forgot to mark them up and they still have the old price tags on them?

 

Anyone check the price on these at the Office Depot and Office Max stores in your own areas? Or Walmart or other stores?

 

I can't be the only one finding these for around $5.

 

And I am only talking about the full stainless steel ones, not the ones with half of them being colored plastic.

[nxn96]

I think what Fox is describing in terms of Jotter prices has more to do with superstores trying to close-out some Parker inventories because fewer people purchase a refillable ballpoint. Therein lies the basic problem with the Jotter in the marketplace: given the availability of disposable ballpoints/gelpens/rollerballs sold in quantity at cheap prices, is there still a mass market for the basic Jotter?

 

I'm invested in Parkers and in Jotters; so for me, it's not hard to justify the $3 or so cost of a refill, or to cannibalize a "Parker-like" refill out of another pen to keep a high quality pen in service. On the other hand, when you're standing in front of a wall of pens as you're trying to keep the "back to school" budget in line, are you going to buy the blisterpack of 4 Staples brand gelpens for $1, or a single $6 Jotter?

[ceejaybee]

 

Reading the slight differences in this pen in the posts above was really interesting and made me look at the ones I still have in packages, and the one I carry around and the one in my desk, and seems I have some of every type and never really noticed those differences before. Some made in USA, some in UK. I even noticed that one was really much thiner and slim than the rest of them. I wonder why that is?

 

 

 

 

I suspect that the thinner 'jotter' may be a Parker 'classic' not a jotter, is the clip fixed through the wall of the cap? as opposed fixed to a ring that fits over and around the button.

[parkercrazy]

The difference is in where the pen was made, UK ones have a rounded button with a P type emblem, USA made have a flat button with a recess and the arrow emblem.

 

Ok, thank you

 

Plus, USA Jotters had rounded clicker from 1954 to 1980 when it became stamped clicker until production shifted over to the UK in 1999. In 2006, the clicker became a rounded clicker with the stamped "p" on it. It is a genuine article you have.

(snip)

James

 

Minor corrections based on my observation & readings:

Convex (rounded) button actuator: 1954 to 1973

Concave button actuator with halo logo stamped: 1973-2003

Convex button actuator with "50" stamped for Jotter Anniversary: 2004

Convex button actuator with "P" script logo stamped: 2005-current

 

For more information, you may be interested in the clips of various Jotters. 1954 Jotters had trough clip with rubberized body. 1956-57 Jotters had ballclip with flat clip. Thereafter 1958 to present Jotters had arrow clips like the one you have.

(snip)

James

The 1954-56 barrels (bodies) were nylon, eliminating the ribbed barrel and switching to Polypropylene in about 1956-57 and adding the metal reinforcement ring at the end of the barrel.

 

Trough Clip: 1954 through about 1957 (advertised it but may not have produced it through '57)

Ball Clip: 1956 though about 1960 (same as above)

Arrow Clip: 1960-current

 

(snip)

Finally, you will want to look at the bushing inside the clicker. Jotters from 1954 to 1980 had brass bushings which are yellow. Jotters made thereafter, including the 2010 Jotter have plastic bushings. Collectors like brass bushings.

 

James

Brass cap threads: 1954-1982

Plastic cap threads: 1982-current

 

Jotter documentation is not easily available over the years. The best documentation available can be found in Dr. Graham Hogg's "55 Years... Jotter" book recently updated. There is currently another book in the works on Jotters, authored by well-known Parker authors, but I understand it is on hold for various reasons, likely financial. If anyone can dispute the above dates and present evidence supporting, I encourage you to post corrections. Much of this is from memory as I'm on the road right now but I'm pretty sure it's accurate.

 

Oh, and I think CeeJayBee is correct by stating the domed button with the script P was produced both in the USA and UK simultaneously but I cannot confirm for sure.

 

Hi everyone,

 

Been awhile since I have posted on this board, but the Jotter has been my Passion for several years now. Mike is right on the money with his dates on the Jotter.

 

There has been many subtle changes in the Jotter over the years, some of those I will list here. #1 is the trough clip was still in production as late as Jan. 1958 I know this because I have some Tough clip Jotters that have the Arrow Logo on the back. This Logo was not added to the Jotter until Jan, 1958. That means that all three Jotter caps were still in production at the same time, #1 the Trough Clip, 1954-58. #2 the Ridge Clip with half Ball, 1956-58 #3 the Ridge Clip with Full Ball, 1958-60 and The Arrow clip was added in Jan. 1960. Many have printed that the Arrow Clip was added in 1958. This simply is not factual. The only Jotters that had the Arrow clip in 1958 were the Cap activated Jotters such as the 51 and 61. The Regular push button Jotter did not get this Arrow clip till Jan. 1960.

 

Parker added the Barrel Protector in or about Jan. 1957 and the T-Ball Jotter came out in August 1957.

 

You can pretty well date a Jotter if you know what to look for. There has been many changes to the Jotter in the last 56 years. My passion is with the older ones made in Janesville, WI.

 

I will stand corrected if Someone out there has proof that these dates due not hold up.

 

Another little interesting change came when The Jotter went from the Rounded activation button to the concave button with the arrow logo, They moved the Parker from the front under the clip to the back of the cap. This concave button was used as early as 1967 on the Classic which is also a Jotter. Sure hope some of this information helps with dating a Parker Jotter

 

Take Care, Francis

[ceejaybee]

Hi Francis,

 

Thanks for your input, it helps emormously but has also piqued my interest in Jotter history!

 

I was wondering if all the early Parker ballpoints made in the USA were classified as 'Jotters'? I know that many of the early models were referred to as Jotters such as the "51" Jotter, the International Jotter, etc, was this the norm? At what point did the name become exclusive to the Jotter as we know it today?

 

I was also surprised that you say the Classic is also a Jotter, I know that the Classic went under many labels such as the International, 75 classic, international classic and finally the classic but I never saw it labelled as a Jotter? Is it possible to elaborate? I'm wondering now if I am indeed a jotter collector!

 

Hopefully you'll pop back and let me know

 

Warmest Wishes, Carol

[FOX]

I even noticed that one was really much thiner and slim than the rest of them. I wonder why that is?

 

I suspect that the thinner 'jotter' may be a Parker 'classic' not a jotter, is the clip fixed through the wall of the cap? as opposed fixed to a ring that fits over and around the button.

 

HEY... Yes it is, I never noticed that before!

 

Thank you for that bit of information!

[rminj]

Jotters have disappeared from the Walmarts, Staples, Target, and CVS drugstores by me. Its very odd..one day they

were there and the next they are no longer sold.

[FOX]

Jotters have disappeared from the Walmarts, Staples, Target, and CVS drugstores by me. Its very odd..one day they

were there and the next they are no longer sold.

 

Thus my advice above, that when you find something you like, buy as many as you can.

 

The Jotters may return, but the next time you see one, it will be marked: "Made in China"

[ceejaybee]

Jotters have disappeared from the Walmarts, Staples, Target, and CVS drugstores by me. Its very odd..one day they

were there and the next they are no longer sold.

 

 

Fox got there first! :roflmho:

[MLKirk]

(snip)

 

There has been many subtle changes in the Jotter over the years, some of those I will list here. #1 is the trough clip was still in production as late as Jan. 1958 I know this because I have some Tough clip Jotters that have the Arrow Logo on the back. This Logo was not added to the Jotter until Jan, 1958. That means that all three Jotter caps were still in production at the same time, #1 the Trough Clip, 1954-58. #2 the Ridge Clip with half Ball, 1956-58 #3 the Ridge Clip with Full Ball, 1958-60 and The Arrow clip was added in Jan. 1960. Many have printed that the Arrow Clip was added in 1958. This simply is not factual. The only Jotters that had the Arrow clip in 1958 were the Cap activated Jotters such as the 51 and

61. The Regular push button Jotter did not get this Arrow clip till Jan. 1960.

Ooooo....Francis, I love it when you post about Jotters (what else?!?). You always seem to come up with some tidbit or two that I wasn't aware of. I enjoy learning more and more about Parker and Jotters specifically.

 

I am not well versed in month detail, just approximating years. I did not know there were trough clips with the "halo" arrow logo on the cap. That is pretty good proof as '58 was the start of that logo with Parker. I was also was not aware that three clips were marketed at the same time in '58. For me that is a significant new piece of information.

 

 

(snip)

Parker added the Barrel Protector in or about Jan. 1957 and the T-Ball Jotter came out in August 1957.

Now, this is the tidbit I'm most interested in. I never knew that the T-Ball came out in August 1957. I would certainly have remembered because that is when I was born (August 23, 1957 to be exact).:clap1:

 

 

(snip)

Another little interesting change came when The Jotter went from the Rounded activation button to the concave button with the arrow logo, They moved the Parker from the front under the clip to the back of the cap. This concave button was used as early as 1967 on the Classic which is also a Jotter.

And this info above is stuff I never noticed either. Though it's been in front of my nose all this time.

 

It's a good thing to feed our passion! Once again, thanks Francis! You are da man!

Hope to see you at Columbus again.

[MLKirk]

I know very little about the modern Parkers and the P logo but I guess once the decision had been made (in 1999?) all the products would eventually sport it once remaining stock had been used. The P recessed button makes perfect sense, another mini chapter in the jotters history? Maybe the dome button was only used after Parker had designed it specially for the Anniversary models in 2004?

 

Again with Parker nothing appears set in stone, change takes time to implement, for instance, I was recently gifted a beautiful sterling sonnet BP, the 'New for 2010' chrome trimmed style and it has a 2008 datecode and the now discontinued P logo! so I guess the Kids will have it on Ebay as a 'Preproduction Prototype' after I'm gone! :roflmho:

 

I've been meaning to post a correction to my dates because in my haste in recalling dates, I committed a boo-boo. Ceejaybee got me thinking about the "P' logo and I forgot that Parker used that in a RECESSED button in 2000 before they changed to the domed button with the script "P" logo in...mmmm....recalling about 2005 or 2006. Shame on me. There were so few years of the (concave) recessed button sporting the "P" logo that I tend to forget about them. I reminded myself when I picked up one of my old company giveaway Jotters with the recessed P logo and a 2000 date code.

Edited November 2, 2010 by MLKirk

[FOX]

I reminded myself when I picked up one of my old company giveaway Jotters with the recessed P logo and a 2000 date code.

 

Date Code?

 

I didn't know there were date codes on Jotters. So after reading this, I do a google search to find out more about it, and the google results just bring me back to the Fountain Pen Network!

 

https://www.fountainpennetwork.com/forum/index.php?/topic/162133-parker-date-codes-discussion/page__view__findpost__p__1617004

 

I just checked one of my pens and found an "IE" engraved just before the "MADE IN USA"

 

[streeton]

I reminded myself when I picked up one of my old company giveaway Jotters with the recessed P logo and a 2000 date code.

 

Date Code?

 

I didn't know there were date codes on Jotters. So after reading this, I do a google search to find out more about it, and the google results just bring me back to the Fountain Pen Network!

 

https://www.fountainpennetwork.com/forum/index.php?/topic/162133-parker-date-codes-discussion/page__view__findpost__p__1617004

 

I just checked one of my pens and found an "IE" engraved just before the "MADE IN USA"

 

 

Fox, the IE of your pen should be 1984 because the 1988 version which seems the same is actually roman numeral 1E... that is assuming your pen has the 'letter' 'I' top and tailed with horizontals andis not a roman numeral '1' which is not top and tailed but merely a vertical line. Of course if it is roman numeral '1E' and not alpha 'IE' then it could be 1998 OR 1988 (but NOT 1984).

Edited November 3, 2010 by streeton

[FOX]

Fox, the IE of your pen should be 1984 because the 1988 version which seems the same is actually roman numeral 1E... that is assuming your pen has the 'letter' 'I' top and tailed with horizontals.

 

Yes it is "I" just as appears here between quotes. This particular pen also has brass insides.

 

Going by what some said above...

 

Jotters from 1954 to 1980 had brass bushings which are yellow. Jotters made thereafter have plastic bushings.

 

Brass cap threads: 1954-1982

Plastic cap threads: 1982-current

 

1974 - IE IC IL II Note that EI could also denote Q1 1984 or Q3 1988 etc

1984 - IE IC IL II Note that EI could also denote Q1 1974 or Q3 1988 etc

1988 - IIIE IIE IE E Note that EI could also denote Q1 1974 or Q1 1984 etc

1998 - IIIE IIE IE E

1999 - IIIN IIN IN N

 

It seems that this pen could be from 1974.

 

Double checking the mark on the pen with a jewelers loop, I see it is actually marked "IC" instead of "IE" :embarrassed_smile: but either way, both markings would end up either in 1974 or 1984, and then it's a matter of it having brass instead of plastic, suggesting more likely 1974.

 

It sure is nice to learn about these date codes. I never had any idea all these years of having these pens.

 

[streeton]

Fox, the IE of your pen should be 1984 because the 1988 version which seems the same is actually roman numeral 1E... that is assuming your pen has the 'letter' 'I' top and tailed with horizontals.

 

Yes it is "I" just as appears here between quotes. This particular pen also has brass insides.

 

Going by what some said above...

 

Jotters from 1954 to 1980 had brass bushings which are yellow. Jotters made thereafter have plastic bushings.

 

Brass cap threads: 1954-1982

Plastic cap threads: 1982-current

 

1974 - IE IC IL II Note that EI could also denote Q1 1984 or Q3 1988 etc

1984 - IE IC IL II Note that EI could also denote Q1 1974 or Q3 1988 etc

1988 - IIIE IIE IE E Note that EI could also denote Q1 1974 or Q1 1984 etc

1998 - IIIE IIE IE E

1999 - IIIN IIN IN N

 

It seems that this pen could be from 1974.

 

Double checking the mark on the pen with a jewelers loop, I see it is actually marked "IC" instead of "IE" :embarrassed_smile: but either way, both markings would end up either in 1974 or 1984, and then it's a matter of it having brass instead of plastic, suggesting more likely 1974.

 

It sure is nice to learn about these date codes. I never had any idea all these years of having these pens.

 

 

Very interesting because USA made jotters were not date coded until 1979 or thereabouts, which means you have a very late example of a brass threaded jotter from 1984. Parker can be quite quirky with their consistency but I doubt they would be 5 years out - 1974 to 1979. Are you sure this model is not a Parker Classic which is slimmer than a jotter with the clip mounted to the cap body, but some people mix their identity occasionally. They are similar to look at particularly in the flighter (stainless steel form). Just a thought.

Edited November 4, 2010 by streeton

[MLKirk]

Hi Jotter fans. I just finished packing pens for the Ohio Pen Show; leaving for Columbus tomorrow morning. Four days of pen talking, walking, learning and sharing. I'm pumped up; did a last minute check of FPN and this thread is alive again.

 

This could be an interesting anomaly. I agree with my friend from down under. It is more likely a 1984 than a '74 IMHO. Parker is, in fact quirky at times. It is highly possible that Parker was using up old stock as they've been prone to do throughout their history. It has been accepted among collectors that '82-'83 were the years in which Parker switched to plastic threads. However, it is very likely that a 1984 date code got out early in the year until stocks were exhausted. I am, of course, assuming it is marked Made In USA. The UK production was date code marked earlier than 1979 IIRC.

 

Streeton makes a good point about the Parker Classic/International Classic line. I have specimens with date codes just like the Jotter Prime (ooooo....I'm coining a new colloquialism; you read it here first.)

[streeton]

Hi Jotter fans. I just finished packing pens for the Ohio Pen Show; leaving for Columbus tomorrow morning. Four days of pen talking, walking, learning and sharing. I'm pumped up; did a last minute check of FPN and this thread is alive again.

 

.....

 

Enjoy your trip to the home of the Golden Bear - Jack Nicklaus for any non golfing types.