Dating Montblanc 149s

[glennalvia]

Just one word....... WOW!

[Makar]

Just found this superb thread in an attempt, once more, to get to grips with dating a 149. I still struggle with the broad and narrow shoulders but there is so much else now to piece together with this work. If this site had a thanks system I would be doling them out big time!

 

Back out on the hunt for a new 149...don't tell the wife I've been dating...

 

cheers

Stephen

[Bronze]

- Thank you for this great resource guys, very helpful.

 

 

[Inked]

Good evening

 

As everyone has said..awesome job!

 

I have applied this new knowledge over the last few days, to listings of 149's for sale across the web, and it is solid.

 

You have nailed it!

 

I was just wondering...would the Mont Blanc star be key in dating these pens as well?

 

Inked

Edited January 3, 2011 by Inked

[Michael R.]

The dating chart has sparked my interst lately and I came across another difference which I think has not incooperated into the chart.

 

Christof showed the following wonderful pictures in his post (https://www.fountainpennetwork.com/forum/index.php?/topic/60636-barry-gabay-mb-149-article-now-available/page__view__findpost__p__900032) in 2009 (many thanks!):

 

http://farm4.static.flickr.com/3430/3212383602_8bfcb7559e_b.jpg

1970's 149

 

and

 

http://farm4.static.flickr.com/3453/3211537415_e92d9742a7_b.jpg

1980's-1990's 149

 

One of the main differences is the sinlge barrel construction vs. the multiple parts construction on later models.

 

Also with this changes the nib/feeder construction changed. Early models have a small rim being part of the glossy black plastic gripping section while later models show a matte black rim which is part of the feeder case and unscrews from the section of the pen. Doing this allows to take a part the two piece construction of the barrel.

 

Now I have notived that even more modern 149 pens(>2000) have a different construction again. The nib unit unscrews similar to the eralier models from the section. The little rim on the section is part of the section and not the feeder case again but still is matte black. The matte black rim is attached to the section and stays there when removing the nib unit. Also I'm not sure if the barrel construction now is a single piece again ?!

 

By the way; the 146 series underwent a similar change; on more recent pens the matte black rim on the section is part of the section as well and not part of the feeder case as it was a couple of years ago.

 

Unfortunately I have not been able to make out the exact date when those changes occured but all pens I have seen the new construction show details (feed, nib,...) of 2000er pens or later.

 

Cheers

 

Michael

[DKbRS]

Those are terrific images and very interesting. Thanks for posting them.

[Gdowne]

Have a 149 with the split ebonite feed, plastic piston threads, and a 14k two-tone nib, so am I correct in dating it sometime in the 1988 or 1989?

 

Wait, just pulled out the warranty card from the clamshell case and see the card was printed in 10/88, so I would assume my dating based on the chart and photos is fairly accurate.

 

Thoughts?

[Barry Gabay]

The pen you described was made ca. 85-90, maybe a year or so earlier. The 14K nib appeared in 85 and was gone by 91/92. The split ebonite feed was first used with 14C nibs and single-piece barrels in 1981-82. Then with two-piece barrels and 14C nibs from 82-85. The plastic feed replaced the split ebonite in the US in 1990/91. Brass piston threads appeared about the same time. One somewhat rare model is the split-ebonite feed, two-piece barrel, with brass piston threads. I saw those only briefly in 91. Enjoy your new pen. It's one of the last of the truly great 149s: ebonite and a 14K nib. Congratulations!

[hari317]

I received a 149 in the mail today. The pen looks untampered and I think in factory original configuration.

 

Salient specs:

 

• 
   
  
• 18C Tritone nib
  
• Solid HR feeder
  
• Single unit barrel
  
• Screw in filler with resin threads
  
• Plastic cap top screw
   
  

This consist has no place in the chart, but I date it to approx 1969-1975, based on just the solid feeder. However due to the 18C tritone, maybe this is a transitory model exhausting leftover stocks of the 18C tritone in late 60s-early70s.

 

I compared this pen to another pen with the following specs:

 

• 
   
  
• 14C Bitone nib
  
• Split HR feeder
  
• Single unit barrel
  
• Screw in filler with resin threads
  
• Plastic cap top screw
   
  

thus dating it to 1975-1985.

 

I noticed the following differences between them:

 

1. 
    
   
2. The older pen is slightly shorter and thinner.
   
3. The snowflake on the old one is larger and slightly translucent in the edges.
   
4. The central trim ring on the older one is rounded as compared to the squarish"[" profile of the ring on the newer pen.
   
5. The trim washer at the filler is slightly thinner on the older pen.
   
6. The clips on both the pens are identical with GERMANY on the washer.
   

The Pictures:

 

http://i264.photobucket.com/albums/ii197/hari317/MB149/IMG_5510.jpg

 

http://i264.photobucket.com/albums/ii197/hari317/MB149/IMG_5511.jpg

 

http://i264.photobucket.com/albums/ii197/hari317/MB149/IMG_5514.jpg

 

http://i264.photobucket.com/albums/ii197/hari317/MB149/IMG_5518.jpg

 

http://i264.photobucket.com/albums/ii197/hari317/MB149/IMG_5512.jpg

 

http://i264.photobucket.com/albums/ii197/hari317/MB149/IMG_5513.jpg

 

http://i264.photobucket.com/albums/ii197/hari317/MB149/IMG_5520.jpg

 

http://i264.photobucket.com/albums/ii197/hari317/MB149/IMG_5521.jpg

 

I also notice that the M inside the circle on all the 18C tritone nibs that I have seen(around 5-6 pens personally) are slightly malformed/malstamped, does anyone have an example with a perfectly stamped M in such a nib?

 

Can anyone comment on the size of the Snowflake and how it has changed over the years.

 

Thanks!

Hari

[georges zaslavsky]

It is a french market model (rare model), the snowflakes aren't the same on an eignties model than on a seventies or mid late sixties model. Aldo the nib on this french model is tapered shoulders, pretty sure it is a flexible one. I am going to buy a 1966 MB 149 French market model with a tricolor 18ct custom medium oblique in april 2011. I will post pics of it

Edited February 26, 2011 by georges zaslavsky

[CS388]

 

...edit...

 

 

I also notice that the M inside the circle on all the 18C tritone nibs that I have seen(around 5-6 pens personally) are slightly malformed/malstamped, does anyone have an example with a perfectly stamped M in such a nib?

 

 

 

I hadn't noticed until you mentioned it, but the M on my 18C tritone nib is almost invisible. Am assuming it's a stamping issue, as the rest of the nib has sharp imprints?

 

Beautiful pens, Hari - and excellent photography, too!

 

 

Edited to add: On the first page of this topic there is a photo of an 18C tritone nib with a perfect M in the circle, in a post by sunnerd

Edited February 28, 2011 by CS388

[Mr Blifil]

 

...edit...

 

 

I also notice that the M inside the circle on all the 18C tritone nibs that I have seen(around 5-6 pens personally) are slightly malformed/malstamped, does anyone have an example with a perfectly stamped M in such a nib?

 

 

 

I hadn't noticed until you mentioned it, but the M on my 18C tritone nib is almost invisible. Am assuming it's a stamping issue, as the rest of the nib has sharp imprints?

 

Beautiful pens, Hari - and excellent photography, too!

 

 

Edited to add: On the first page of this topic there is a photo of an 18C tritone nib with a perfect M in the circle, in a post by sunnerd

 

 

I have one that is cleanly and crisply stamped an one that is faintly stamped.

[Mr Blifil]

I also see other differences in the details of the stampings. The shoulders look the same to me, but the tine length on one with the lighltly stamped M look longer. This last comparison is difficult because one is a B, I think, and the other an EF.

Edited February 28, 2011 by Mr Blifil

[Michael R.]

I would like to add a few differences in detail regarding the older, celluloid versions of the 149:

 

• there are at least two different versions of the ink window; there is a longer one (ca. 1,3 cm / older???) and a shorter one (ca. 0,6 cm / newer???)
  
• there are two differently shaped rims at the end of the gripping section; one is more cylindrical (older ???) - the other is more conical (newer???). Both versions can be seen in the chart (compare the first two pictures showing the different early feeds).
  
• the filling knob might be engraved with "149" or "149G" with or without combination of stating the nib width. I believe "149G" in combination with the nib width is the oldest while an unengraved one would be the newest.
  

 

Unfortunately I have no time refferences for those observations. Maybe it was the same time the feed design was changed on the celluloid 149s?

 

Cheers

 

Michael

[collado]

 

This is the 14C bi-color nib（EF），cited from www.penbbs.com@China

[torstar]

Thank you.

 

But that takes all the fun out of it with my 18K bicolour nib.

[kroywen1982]

I have just purchased a 149 from Swisher Pens, the thread is brass. I am very glad.

[ocedare]

Hello, it is my first post.

 

I have a 149 Meisterstuck pen with a 18K two-tone unmarked stod.

Body in 2 sections, black plastic piston, plastic feeds early. When I light the interior of the cap, the threaded portion shows a

red and the clip is marked "Germany ".

 

Same as

http://farm4.static.flickr.com/3453/3211537415_e92d9742a7_b.jpg1980's-1990's 149

 

 

I can not locate it in years because I can not find the nib without stod in the table.. Perhaps just before 1990? Do you think it is an assembly or is it original?

 

if you need a picture of the nib for inclusion in the table, let me know;)

 

http://i258.photobucket.com/albums/hh259/ocedare/pen/IMG_5328.jpg

http://i258.photobucket.com/albums/hh259/ocedare/pen/IMG_5329.jpg

http://i258.photobucket.com/albums/hh259/ocedare/pen/IMG_5326.jpg

http://i258.photobucket.com/albums/hh259/ocedare/pen/IMG_5323.jpg

http://i258.photobucket.com/albums/hh259/ocedare/pen/IMG_53252.jpg

http://i258.photobucket.com/albums/hh259/ocedare/pen/IMG_5315-1.jpg

http://i258.photobucket.com/albums/hh259/ocedare/pen/IMG_5320.jpg

http://i258.photobucket.com/albums/hh259/ocedare/pen/IMG_3532-1.jpg

http://i258.photobucket.com/albums/hh259/ocedare/pen/IMG_3526-1.jpg

Edited March 26, 2011 by ocedare

[hari317]

I have a 149 Meisterstuck pen with a 18K two-tone unmarked stod.

 

Your nib and pen are certainly legitimate. I have seen a few of these come up on ebay, all with the first gen plastic feeder. I believe these were the first 18K nibs.

[draeroheli]

1985 MB 149 with Split Ebonite feed, 14 K Bi colour/ tone Fine nib, Black Plastic Thread for Filler cone (NOS) is waiting for me at home. The Nib/Feeder Housing collar has 180 degree Slots at 12 o 'clock and at 6 o'clock position.

Modern MB 149 has 4 o'clock and 8 o'clock position.

 

 

I will post the pictures soon. Htin

Edited March 26, 2011 by draeroheli