Dating Montblanc 149s

[Jopen]

Hi all 149ers

 

Just got this 149 at an auction at a very fair price as it showed many scratches (not deep) and also a gap between section and body. Was happy to see that it was only due to bad reassembly of the pen as it may have been "serviced" before (no pink silicone but normal silicone grease was found). As seen in the photos (handy), it has long rib, Germany marked clip, 2 tone 14K springy nib, split? ebonite feed, 2 section barrel and plastic threaded filler unit. Was thinking by the info that it could be dated around mid 80ties... but not sure... Any thoughts?

 

Jose

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

just a bit off-topic, but love always this part... pen arrived in the morning and work carried out slowly through the evening (a rainy evening).... to see how pen comes nicely apart, all pieces well cleaned, hand polishing where needed, lubrication and reassembly and finally if needed some nib adjustment (as it was taken totally apart to clean the feed in USound bath). Very nice and smooth F/EF writer. Love to "work" with 149's, they are very well designed and very easy to service.

 

 

 

 

 

Edited April 5, 2016 by Jopen

[penparadise]

Hmm, just "Germany" and 14K nib doesn't match.

The engraving "Germany" was used not before 1989/90 and a 14K nib was used earlier.

So I think someone reassembled at least two pens and mixed up some parts.

 

But it's still a nice pen! And if it suits your handwriting who cares?

[Jopen]

Oh.. I see what you mean Axel... too many drinks before reassembling the pen

And yes, it is a sweet writer indeed

Thanks!

[zaddick]

Germany was used on the clip up to about 1985 and then again after unification in 1991 or so. Of course after reunification the font was different and there was a serial number.

 

Jopen - I think mid 1980s is about right.

[penparadise]

Germany was used on the clip up to about 1985 and then again after unification in 1991 or so. Of course after reunification the font was different and there was a serial number.

 

Jopen - I think mid 1980s is about right.

 

Sorry , but don't mix up "W-Germany" or "West Germany" with "Germany" engravings.

[Jopen]

Well, I see...

This means that the "magic table" is working very well (awesome work!!!).

Estimated mid eighties was the first and precise thought, but the question arised as the pen was far from being mint and one never knows how many "hands" have been working in this pen through it's life or which parts could be original or replacements. As far as seen and commented, seems quite correct in parts and this is what interested me. Thanks a lot!

Jose

[zaddick]

 

Sorry , but don't mix up "W-Germany" or "West Germany" with "Germany" engravings.

Not sure what you mean. Older 149s just had GERMANY engraved on the clip. The W.GERMANY was used for part of the 1980s and then reverted to GERMANY in the early 1990s. Is your implication that my statement is incorrect? Just trying to see your perspective. I am happy to learn more.

[HeWhoLovesMountains]

Thank you all for posting this wonderfull post, it first of all brightens my day to see all those beautifull 149's and I have because of the charts and the images finally been able to date my split ebonite feed, 14C nib, 149.

 

I was always curious when my pen was made and now I've been able to put it between 1975-1985

 

EDIT:

 

Actually looking back on it I might not even have a whole pen as my cap says W-Germany & I have a serial number, but O well

Edited May 12, 2016 by HeWhoLovesMountains

[storyteller]

Do you know the country of original sale?

 

In Europe, 'Germany' was also used on the cap between 1985 and the early nineties - so it is of little use as a dating criterion should the pen have originated from this area.

[Tom Kellie]

~ This week zaddick very kindly clarified several points about Montblanc nib sizes. zaddick, jar, Chrissy, meiers, fpupulin, Pravda, piscov and so many others constitute a pool of wisdom and experience concerning Montblanc models, manufacture and lore.

Reading FPN posts in the Montblanc section both educates and broadens perspective. The patience, commitment and insights of those who post is deeply appreciated.

After reflecting on zaddick's points, I looked for further information about 149s as seven of them sit on my desk.

When I found this thread about estimating 149 manufacture dates I was enthralled.

All but one of my 149s and various other Montblanc fountain pens were purchased new from boutiques, or in the case of two 3-42 Gs, from reliable dealers who provided the year of manufacture.

The collective effort to build on DKbRS's original chart, with ample assistance from Barry Gabay, resulted in an outstanding resource for those seeking the approximate age of their 149s.

After reading through the 20 pages, I applied what I'd learned to the one and only 149 about which I knew little, as it was received as a gift. The results I'll post in a separate thread.

As jar noted in a post in this thread: “Gifts are Beyond Price”. Very, very true.

A hearty thanks to all of those who refined this thread over several years.

Tom K.

[tj4810]

I'd like to add into this thread! Just bought this little gem. Nib is 18C tricolor, single piece barrel, solid ebonite, Germany imprint on clip. The M engraved on the nib is faint, as seen in certain pens from the era. But it's spectacular as a writer. Umlaut with two horizontal dots characteristic of the 70s era. The best part is that the pen still was inked once and never again used. So it's pretty much in mint condition, you can even see the nib size sticker still strong. I'm guessing this is early to mid 70's. An interesting note, looking at the Lifetime Guarantee you can read the following:

 

MONT BLANC

 

GENERAL DISTRIBUTOR

KOH-I-NOOR

RAPIDOGRAPH INC.

 

Bloomsbury

New Jersey 08804

 

 

Also, take a look at the slogan on the Guarantee: "The jewel of fountain pens". I'm guessing the Lifetime Guarantee was only offered for the top of the line, the 149. But this is just a wild guessing.

 

This pen belonged to a mexican family, I'm trying to figure out whether it was bought in Mexico or somewhere else. So it might be the case that 18c tricolor nibs made it pretty much everywhere in the world. Maybe this Koh-I-Noor distributor was in charge of exporting the pens from Germany to the US and subsequently came to Mexico by means of another distributor. I'll edit the post if I find any more information.

 

 

[jar]

I'd like to add into this thread! Just bought this little gem. Nib is 18C tricolor, single piece barrel, solid ebonite, Germany imprint on clip. The M engraved on the nib is faint, as seen in certain pens from the era. But it's spectacular as a writer. Umlaut with two horizontal dots characteristic of the 70s era. The best part is that the pen still was inked once and never again used. So it's pretty much in mint condition, you can even see the nib size sticker still strong. I'm guessing this is early to mid 70's. An interesting note, looking at the Lifetime Guarantee you can read the following:

 

MONT BLANC

 

GENERAL DISTRIBUTOR

KOH-I-NOOR

RAPIDOGRAPH INC.

 

Bloomsbury

New Jersey 08804

 

 

Also, take a look at the slogan on the Guarantee: "The jewel of fountain pens". I'm guessing the Lifetime Guarantee was only offered for the top of the line, the 149. But this is just a wild guessing.

 

This pen belonged to a mexican family, I'm trying to figure out whether it was bought in Mexico or somewhere else. So it might be the case that 18c tricolor nibs made it pretty much everywhere in the world. Maybe this Koh-I-Noor distributor was in charge of exporting the pens from Germany to the US and subsequently came to Mexico by means of another distributor. I'll edit the post if I find any more information.

 

 

At the time that Koh-I-Noor was the US Montblanc distributor the 1xx line had a lifetime (of the original owner) guarantee, the 2xx had a 25 year guarantee and the 3xx only a 10 year guarantee.

[zaddick]

I'd go mid 1970s tj4810. Earlier may have had the grooved face feed. Later in the 1970s MB moved to 14C two tone nibs, still with the solid ebonite feed.

Edited September 27, 2016 by zaddick

[tj4810]

At the time that Koh-I-Noor was the US Montblanc distributor the 1xx line had a lifetime (of the original owner) guarantee, the 2xx had a 25 year guarantee and the 3xx only a 10 year guarantee.

Interesting, that makes sense since the pen was bought in Atlanta according to the person I got it from.

 

I'd go mid 1970s tj4810. Earlier may have had the grooved face feed. Layet in the 1970s MB moved to 14C two tone nibs, stI'll with the solid ebonite feed.

Thanks for the correction! Mid 70s were great years altogether. In fact, the girl told me she bought the pen as a present for her husband as late as 1987, so one can only imagine how long it remained unused.

[Erik Dalton]

What an incredible thread. You guys have created a "Classic".

I predict that many many of us will not only have this thread saved, but will return to it over and over again. Thank you for all your work.

[entertainment]

I'd like to add into this thread! Just bought this little gem. Nib is 18C tricolor, single piece barrel, solid ebonite, Germany imprint on clip. The M engraved on the nib is faint, as seen in certain pens from the era. But it's spectacular as a writer. Umlaut with two horizontal dots characteristic of the 70s era. The best part is that the pen still was inked once and never again used. So it's pretty much in mint condition, you can even see the nib size sticker still strong. I'm guessing this is early to mid 70's. An interesting note, looking at the Lifetime Guarantee you can read the following:

 

MONT BLANC

 

GENERAL DISTRIBUTOR

KOH-I-NOOR

RAPIDOGRAPH INC.

 

Bloomsbury

New Jersey 08804

 

 

Also, take a look at the slogan on the Guarantee: "The jewel of fountain pens". I'm guessing the Lifetime Guarantee was only offered for the top of the line, the 149. But this is just a wild guessing.

 

This pen belonged to a mexican family, I'm trying to figure out whether it was bought in Mexico or somewhere else. So it might be the case that 18c tricolor nibs made it pretty much everywhere in the world. Maybe this Koh-I-Noor distributor was in charge of exporting the pens from Germany to the US and subsequently came to Mexico by means of another distributor. I'll edit the post if I find any more information.

 

https://www.fountainpennetwork.com/forum/uploads/monthly_09_2016/post-26427-0-69030700-1475006953.jpg

 

 

What is interesting here is how careful one has to be with the papers accompanying a pen. As far as I can determine, Montblanc did not use the "Art of Writing" slogan shown on the guarantee until the mid to late 1980s, but the pen is clearly much earlier.

Edited December 18, 2016 by entertainment

[Barry Gabay]

Very good point, entertainment. I thought that too, but I will attribute it to my poor memory. The Montblanc repair center was still in Bloomsbury in the late-1980s, maybe into the 90s. Seeing this portion of the thread makes me sentimental for the good old days of Bloomsbury. Way back when, the chief repairman was a fine gentleman named Pierre Matel. He was always generous with advice and information about repair and dating of the 149. Before he passed away, I used to send him spare 149 nibs I'd picked up at pen shows. He would build a brand new 149 from whatever contemporary parts were in front of him at the time. The cost was determined per part, and if I recall correctly, no more than a little over $100. in the mid to late 1980s. He would also switch nibs on 149s and 146s I sent him, regardless of the nib's age and without any documentation, just so long as the nib was in excellent condition. Even in the mid to late 80s, if I sent a two-tone 14C nib, for e.g., he would find a similar one in his inventory rather than installing the two-tone 14K which was in use at the time. Thanks for sparking the memories.

[FredRydr]

...Way back when...I used to send him spare 149 nibs I'd picked up at pen shows. He would build a brand new 149 from whatever contemporary parts were in front of him at the time. The cost was determined per part....

 

 

Barry! Oh man! Times have changed. Can you imagine Richemont doing that?

 

Fred

Edited December 18, 2016 by FredRydr

[timarti]

Stepping out of the shadows, my first post! This thread has been very interesting to me. I have a Meisterstuck 149. It was a gift for my 26th birthday in 1975. After years as a student using not very nice fountain pens, I attained my heart's desire, a 149 with a BBB nib. It was purchased new at a pen shop in Toronto, Canada. Looking at the chart, it has all the characteristics for an early 1970's pen,solid ebonite feed, black plastic filler, single barrel, but the nib is an 18c tricolor 750 with a very faint M. This pen has been one of my most prized possessions for almost 43 years. It has never been serviced, and has never been toted around. It lives on my desk. I have the original case, but not the paperwork. I cannot recall if the BBB nib was a special order, or if it was in stock. The barrel was engraved with my first name and the year. This pen has never failed to write beautifully. It is like butter. I have other fountain pens that can travel with me, Lamy and Kaweco, with BB nibs that are also a joy to write with, but nothing can take the place of the 149 in my heart! It will probably go with me to the grave, lol. I wonder if the BBB nibs are less common, so might have been stock from an earlier period?

 

Tina

[zaddick]

Hi Tina-

 

Thanks for sharing. The 18C nibs in the tri-tone are period appropriate.

 

3B nibs are quite unusual, but the challenge is they are not marked and were all hand finished so width can vary. Since you bought yours new you know the width, but most pens you just take a look at the nib and guess when buying one. I have a few from the 1960s that I think are BB but have not yet found a 3B. They did make them that wide as I have seen the 3B sticker, but not for a long while. You can still order an oblique 3B but it's not the same.

 

I'd love to see photos and a writing sample, especially next to other more standard B or BB nibs.