Dating Montblanc 149s

[iancorben]

That is one beautiful NOS celluloid 149! I also have a celluloid 149 with polymer piston seal. I believe they were manufactured near the end of celluloid 149 production run. These polymer seals are better than cork but if you have a slightly warped or out of round barrel, corks do better job of sealing.

 

Thanks for your comment John, I think it is fascinating this pen has sat ( as the other recent discoveries have as well) in a desk, or in a garage or in a box etc etc all these years, in fact for longer than I have been alive! Just sat waiting!

 

This thread is terrific, it has inspired me to search, as I am sure it has others.

[Barry Gabay]

Hello Ian, Perhaps it is my poor eyesight, but I believe your nib is older than the rest of the pen. Is there etching on the nib between the circle around the M and the larger circle in the nib's center? I have seen this nib on many celluloid 149s and believe it was on the 139 as well. This could mean that the nib had been at the factory for quite some time before your pen was assembled. I hope the experts will comment. If the nib has the etching which runs from top right to bottom left, it will be the first time I've seen it on a plastic 149, making it yet another contribution to the chart of 149 components & dates. Best wishes, Barry

[iancorben]

Hello Ian, Perhaps it is my poor eyesight, but I believe your nib is older than the rest of the pen. Is there etching on the nib between the circle around the M and the larger circle in the nib's center? I have seen this nib on many celluloid 149s and believe it was on the 139 as well. This could mean that the nib had been at the factory for quite some time before your pen was assembled. I hope the experts will comment. If the nib has the etching which runs from top right to bottom left, it will be the first time I've seen it on a plastic 149, making it yet another contribution to the chart of 149 components & dates. Best wishes, Barry

 

Thanks for your comment Barry - I have tried to get a better picture of the nib, but my camera ( or my picture taking) is clearly lacking.

 

I have managed to take this through a loupe, not sure if this is what you are referring to. It shows up everything and isn't easy to see.

 

I think the answer to your question though is yes, there is?

 

Hopefully you/ someone may comment about this? Does the picture help?

Edited February 15, 2016 by iancorben

[Barry Gabay]

Hello Ian, Looks to my old eyes that you have a 139 nib or a nib from a celluloid 149. I have never before seen this nib on a plastic 149. Congratulations on a real rarity. Still curious about what other folks have to say. Best wishes, Barry

[zaddick]

It's probably not a 139 marked nib as I don't think they had many of those left after production of the 149 started in 1952. But who knows. Someone might have wanted an oblique so the sourced an older nib.

 

If the nib is seated as it was from the factory you should be able to look around where it enters the collar and see the 139 or 149 in the center of the nib.

[jmccarty3]

This pen gets more interesting by the minute!

[iancorben]

Hello Ian, Looks to my old eyes that you have a 139 nib or a nib from a celluloid 149. I have never before seen this nib on a plastic 149. Congratulations on a real rarity. Still curious about what other folks have to say. Best wishes, Barry

 

Thank you for your interest Barry, it does seem interesting doesn't it? I re read your excellent Pen World article and see you referenced exactly my nib in there and the likely 139 tie up - fascinating. As I said somewhere whilst it is unusual to have a receipt to say exactly when the pen was sold, we don't know in what state it was or what the state of the factory stocks were at the time.

 

Zaddick's suggestion is a good one too, a post purchase change but i wonder if anyone might have any other thoughts as to why this nib 'could' have found itself onto this pen?

 

It's probably not a 139 marked nib as I don't think they had many of those left after production of the 149 started in 1952. But who knows. Someone might have wanted an oblique so the sourced an older nib.

 

If the nib is seated as it was from the factory you should be able to look around where it enters the collar and see the 139 or 149 in the center of the nib.

Paddock - thank you. I have looked with the benefit of the loupe and can see no 139 or 149 at the centre of the nib where it joint s the collar?

 

Does this add to the post purchase switch theory?

 

I would say the nib is not all that flexible- semi flex really, but as I say very smooth.

 

This theory does explain why perhaps the nib isn't int the same pristine condition as the rest of the pen perhaps? The nib engraving is certainly by hand, and looks old - but of course I am not comparing to anything I have in the flesh so to speak.

 

The fact remains the nib is unusual and not to type for the style of pen construction/ age.

 

Any more thoughts very welcome....

[iancorben]

This pen gets more interesting by the minute!

 

Indeed, but with more questions than answers...for now.

[Barry Gabay]

Morning Ian, Zaddick, jmmcarty, & others interested in this thread.

 

I agree that this pen is a most interesting one. Clearly it has a nib older than the first plastic generation of 149s. My first celluloid 149 had a rounded feed with fully grooved face & shank, suggesting it was late celluloid production. However, it had a nib just like Ian's pen. When I disassembled the front end, I saw that the nib was marked L 139 or 139 on the tail. Can't remember which. Experts please help my memory. Were both of those markings on nibs of that generation? I believe there were also nibs of that size marked 50. As is clear from many of my posts, my area of knowledge is far better for plastic 149s than for the 1950s celluloid models. By the way, I traded that 139 nib to Osman Sumer for three later (60s-70s) 149 nibs. We were both happy with the trade.

 

Ian, good luck with your hint.

[zaddick]

Hi Barry. I have definitely seen L139 but maybe just the number was used too. I can't recall seeing just a 139 stamp, but I am not 100% confident they are not out there.

 

The old number system was 250 for the large #9 nib.

 

I have been able to see the 149 nib stamp right about where the nib enters the collar. It depends how deep the nib is set.

Edited February 18, 2016 by zaddick

[slippery when wet]

 

Not sure this will help, on my 139 pen the nib is definitely marked with a 250 stamp,unable to recall if there is a 139 stamp to the end of the nibs tail, ( I have a feeling there maybe) I currently can't find the tool to remove it from the nib collar so I can not confirm. I have another 139 nib and it only shows the 250 stamp. Hope this helps.

Edited February 19, 2016 by slippery when wet

[entertainment]

I think the barrel, piston, and cap look much newer than the nib and feed on this pen. The piston looks like a screw-in rather than friction-fit or two-stage piston, and the cap lip does not have the extreme taper of the early 1960s pens. It looks like an late 1960s or later barrel, piston, and cap to me. The pen must have gone into servicing and had the nib and feed transferred to a new barrel, piston, cap assembly.

 

I posted this separately but this is such a useful reference thread thought I would add the pictures here of my recent purchase.

 

An early 1960s Montbalnc 149 sold by Huber & Lerner on 17th November 1962. Obviously have no idea how long it was on the shelf but looks new and was part of the original Dr's. estate sale - having been in his desk for many years.

 

I don't know if it was ever used, the nib has some marks but it seems so clean and having written today it writes like new, beautiful, really smooth but a little tight, almost waiting to be worked.

 

So as other have shown:

 

Early 60s -

 

Box - metallic brown with cream interior - pen held by single elastic ring

Paperwork - green MB branded instructions showing how to draw in ink ( in German - for what was an Austrian market pen)

Nib - semi-flex 14C

Feed - rounded ebonite, grooves face and shank

Single unit construction barrel

Plastic piston

There are a couple refinements I would like to make to the original post.

 

Attached Images

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Edited February 22, 2016 by entertainment

[jpwaffles]

The three-tone 18C nib was certainly widely available outside of France. I have seen quite a few of them on 149s in the US. I do not know where these pens were originally purchased.

 

Regarding ivanwong's photograph: I don't believe the nib is "rose" gold. I think the nib in the photo is tarnished. This is not a critical comment, just an observation. Polishing it will restore a bright yellow sheen to the gold, if that is what the owner-writer prefers. I have seen mint, boxed 30+ year old 149s which were never used. Some of them have nibs which are nearly orange.

 

http://i.imgur.com/GwDlSUg.jpg?2

 

Received a NOS, Mid 70's 149 (bottom) with a bi-tone rose gold (or so I thought) 14c nib that baffled me until I found this very informative thread and particular post. If it is indeed tarnished, would you polish it back to yellow? More importantly, I'm more curious about the risks in attempting to do so. I've never polished metal before, maybe I should shine up a penny first.

[jar]

 

http://i.imgur.com/GwDlSUg.jpg?2

 

Received a NOS, Mid 70's 149 (bottom) with a bi-tone rose gold (or so I thought) 14c nib that baffled me until I found this very informative thread and particular post. If it is indeed tarnished, would you polish it back to yellow? More importantly, I'm more curious about the risks in attempting to do so. I've never polished metal before, maybe I should shine up a penny first.

I just enjoy mine.

 

146 nibs showing tarnish

http://www.fototime.com/0391E0B09416516/large.jpg

[storyteller]

Hi, please help me to identify my 149, nib 18k bi-color, split ebonite, cab Germany, black plastic thread, two section barrel.

I belive it is a rare version of the year 90.

Many thanks

Best.

 

 

Sorry to seem to contradict what you have been told, but in the name of 'knowledge;' the 18K bi-colour nib existed well before the nineties. It was on a 149 I purchased new in France around 1987 together with a split ebonite feed, 2 section barrel and resin filler threads.

 

I have mentioned this before (a few years ago) but it seems nobody picked up on it....

 

It is possible that you have a seventies single unit pen into which someone has put a mid eighties to early nineties 18K bi-colour nib, but it is also possible that you have a pen with one of the last single piece barrels and one of the first 18K bi-colour nibs i.e. from the mid eighties.

 

(edit - spelling)

Edited March 18, 2016 by storyteller

[storyteller]

Good afternoon vikrmbedi,

 

Very nice photos! Congratulations on your purchase. No part of your pen is 50 years old. It may have been assembled from parts, & there's nothing wrong with that except for deception on the part of the seller. Perhaps he was told that age when he bought it and simply believed what he was told. More likely than an assembly from parts is dating your pen from the details below.

 

Your nib's date is ca. 1992-1995 and the rest of the pen is from approximately 90-91. There are some clear indications in dating this particular pen. There was a brief time in 1990-91 when the split-ebonite feed was found on 149s with the brass piston housing. I purchased a couple of these new in the US in late 1990 & early 1991. Immediately prior to this time, the 149 still retained the black plastic piston threads, and just after this date, the two-tone 18K nib (your nib) appeared. The plastic feed followed after brass threads were introduced but prior to the two-tone 18K nib. I have never seen a new pen with two-tone 18K nib and a split ebonite feed. However, it's possible that with such a brief window for the end of split-ebonite feed and beginning of brass piston threads that the original owner sent his pen in 1991 or 1992 for a nib exchange and received the two-tone 18K nib. In those days, Montblanc (and others) had a far more liberal nib exchange policy. As long as the nib was in excellent condition, there was no problem with a free exchange. I had this done several times at the Koh-i-Noor, Montblanc facility in New Jersey in the US.

 

All components of your pen are correct for 1990-91 with the nib from 92-95. However, I was wrong about the relationship of first-generation plastic feed and second generation (3-tone) 18K nib in the piece I wrote in Pen World years ago. Might be wrong about this one. I'm interested, as are you and everyone who reads this thread, in hearing from other folks who may have purchased a new 149 with split ebonite feed and two-tone 18K nib. If someone knows of such a pen and has the receipt of purchase, that would exactly date your pen. I'm hoping such a pen exists because that would mean you have a very rare model, one made for a very brief period of time.

 

Enjoy your weekend.

Best wishes,

Barry

 

I have one of these.

 

Unfortunately I no longer have the receipt, but I do have the receipt for a 146 that I purchased for my wife at the same time.... 1987.

 

We all know that the ladies are better organized....

[storyteller]

A couple of pictures of the pen in question.

It is, and has been, my 'daily driver' since I purchased it nearly 30 years ago. Nevertheless it looks a lot better in reality than on the pictures. Nothing has been changed and it has only been serviced by myself.

The cap band says "Germany."

 

 

[storyteller]

For anyone that is interested, there is what appears to be another (unrestored, original condition) late eighties 149 with a 18K two-tone nib and split ebonite feed in the classifieds at the moment.

 

https://www.fountainpennetwork.com/forum/classifieds/item/38928-montblanc-149-w-germany-2/

 

This combination of nib and feed may not be all that rare in the European market.

[EMoneySauce]

Someone waaaaaaaaaaay back at the beginning of this string posted details of his/her 149 having a 14K bi-tone nib with a late plastic feed, rather than the expected early plastic feed (as specified in the "chart"). It was referred to as an "anomaly" in the post, and now I seem to have the same anomaly! :-) And from what I can tell (worsening eyes) it seems the clip band only has an 8 character serial number with "Germany."

 

Pen also has a 2 section barrel and brass piston threads.

 

Any thoughts on the mismatched nib and feed?

 

Thank you, everyone!

[Barry Gabay]

Storyteller,

 

Thank you for your very informative posts and great photos. You did indeed purchase a pen which I did not know existed: 2-tone 18K nib and split ebonite feed. It is so interesting to see such a pen. Thank you again. Here in the US, the first generation plastic feed appeared before the two-tone 14K nib was discontinued in favor of the two-tone 18K. In 1991-92, I saw two-tone 14K nibs paired with the first generation plastic feed, but by the end of 1992, the two-tone 18K nibs were in stores in the US.

 

With each contribution, we learn more and more about this fascinating, and perfectly functional, model.

Still my all-time favorite piston filler.

 

Best wishes,

Barry