Dating Montblanc 149s

[Erik1303]

Hi Erik

 

You may have mentioned it, but where did you purchase this pen? Curious about it's origin.

Also, can you please describe the appearance of the umlaut, over or in, the letter "U", in Meisterstück, on your pen?

Not something I had noticed, but Barry pointed out that there is variation in that feature (how does he know all this stuff?) and I have found 3 different types on my eight 149s. Will post photos when possible.

 

I cannot offer any helpful information about the brass threads on your pen, that is perplexing . If Barry doesn't know, there may not be an explanation.

Thanks

greg

Hi Greg,

Bought the pen in an auction.

And yes, I can upload à picture of the umlaut on the "U", will do that tomorrow.

Thanks for replying.

Not any doubt that I am very happy with the MB149.

 

Erik

Greg, sorry for the delay, I am now on a businesstrip in Mumbai (India)...

Did my best for a reasonable picture of the umlaut.. Hope you can tell me anything about the detailling...

 

best regards,

 

Erik

[karmakoda]

Hi Erik

Thank You for the photo. I will post photos later, of the umlaut variations I have found.

On my 18C pens, the umlaut is identical to yours, but, oddly enough, on my 14C pens there is only one mark between the "posts" of the letter "u". Later model 149s have the two marks at the top of the "posts" of the "u".

This may not help with your pen, but is another interesting varient in establishing the age of 149s.

Pictures to follow.

Best Regards

Greg

[karmakoda]

Hi Erik

On my 18C pens, the umlaut is identical to yours, but, oddly enough, on my 14C pens there is only one mark between the "posts" of the letter "u". Later model 149s have the two marks at the top of the "posts" of the "u".

Best Regards

Greg

Sorry in advance re photo quality. Four varieties of umlaut below with brief pen descriptions (really only 3 variations, last two being very similar).

Will update with shots of older 14C umlaut.

 

Bi-color 14K nib, 2 pc barrel, flat section lip/seal, 1st gen plastic feed, brass filler threads, W.Germany clip, circa 1990

http://i829.photobucket.com/albums/zz218/Valaccar/P1060664_zpsc5b92b42.jpg

 

Bi-color 14K nib, 2 pc barrel, flat section lip/seal, split ebonite feed, plastic filler threads, Germany clip, circa 1984/5?

http://i829.photobucket.com/albums/zz218/Valaccar/P1060656_zps51e2a324.jpg

 

Tri-color 18C nib, one pc barrel, raised resin section lip, solid ebonite feed, plastic filler threads, Germany clip, circa 1968

http://i829.photobucket.com/albums/zz218/Valaccar/P1060662_zps58d025b7.jpg

 

Tri-color 18C nib, one pc barrel, raised resin section lip, solid ebonite feed, plastic filler threads, Germany clip, purchased 1968

http://i829.photobucket.com/albums/zz218/Valaccar/P1060660_zpse21ec0e6.jpg

Edited September 24, 2012 by karmakoda

[karmakoda]

Continued: 149 umlaut imprints.

Three 149s with 14C Bicolor nibs, the imprints are remarkably consistent, only distinguished by cosmetic flaws on the pens.

 

14C Bi-color nib, two pc barrel, flat section lip, 1st gen plastic feed, Germany clip imp., plastic threads:Montblanc repaired pen?

http://i829.photobucket.com/albums/zz218/Valaccar/P1060671.jpg

 

14C Bi-color nib, one pc barrel, raised resin section lip, split ebonite feed, Germany clip, plastic threads: circa 1982

http://i829.photobucket.com/albums/zz218/Valaccar/P1060666.jpg

 

14C Bi-color nib, one pc barrel, raised resin section lip, split ebonite feed, Germany clip imp, plastic threads: circa 1982

http://i829.photobucket.com/albums/zz218/Valaccar/P1060668.jpg

 

For comparison, 1952 146, barrel ring imprint similar to 149 umlaut, two dots over letter "u". Will post a fifties 149 soon.

http://i829.photobucket.com/albums/zz218/Valaccar/P1060673.jpg

Edited September 24, 2012 by karmakoda

[Erik1303]

Continued: 149 umlaut imprints.

Three 149s with 14C Bicolor nibs, the imprints are remarkably consistent, only distinguished by cosmetic flaws on the pens.

 

14C Bi-color nib, two pc barrel, flat section lip, 1st gen plastic feed, Germany clip imp., plastic threads:Montblanc repaired pen?

http://i829.photobucket.com/albums/zz218/Valaccar/P1060671.jpg

 

14C Bi-color nib, one pc barrel, raised resin section lip, split ebonite feed, Germany clip, plastic threads: circa 1982

http://i829.photobucket.com/albums/zz218/Valaccar/P1060666.jpg

 

14C Bi-color nib, one pc barrel, raised resin section lip, split ebonite feed, Germany clip imp, plastic threads: circa 1982

http://i829.photobucket.com/albums/zz218/Valaccar/P1060668.jpg

 

For comparison, 1952 146, barrel ring imprint similar to 149 umlaut, two dots over letter "u". Will post a fifties 149 soon.

http://i829.photobucket.com/albums/zz218/Valaccar/P1060673.jpg

Hi Greg, must say that it is pretty impressive to see all these differences in detail... Like the pictures you have posted and clearly recognize my own type...

Thnx

Erik

[karmakoda]

Hi Greg, must say that it is pretty impressive to see all these differences in detail... Like the pictures you have posted and clearly recognize my own type...

Thnx

Erik

Hi Erik,

Glad you found them interesting. Someday when I get time, I will compile an easier timeline association with the different umlauts. Not sure if it's one of those at-a-glance features, but I can now recognize the different eras quite easily. Recently, I re-read Barry's article and much of this thread. Helpful refresher course.

Even though I have eight 149s, there is at least one more model in my future.

Best Regards

Greg

[Erik1303]

Hi Greg, must say that it is pretty impressive to see all these differences in detail... Like the pictures you have posted and clearly recognize my own type...

Thnx

Erik

Hi Erik,

Glad you found them interesting. Someday when I get time, I will compile an easier timeline association with the different umlauts. Not sure if it's one of those at-a-glance features, but I can now recognize the different eras quite easily. Recently, I re-read Barry's article and much of this thread. Helpful refresher course.

Even though I have eight 149s, there is at least one more model in my future.

Best Regards

Greg

Hi Greg,

Yes I agree, reading all the info in this thread keeps being interesting .... I recently got hand of the original MB 149 ink (50ml) blue/black...

Very nice darkblue color..

Erik

[MLB51]

I've had this 149 since I was given it (used) in 1973. The barrel was cracked and leaked ink, but a few years later, maybe 1978-80 I had it re-barrelled by Pencraft, Burlington Arcade, Piccadilly, London and it's worked fine but I've never been able to date it. Thanks to the superb chart I'm getting close.

 

It's got an 18C tri-colour 750 nib; feed is round ebonite, grooves face; single-unit barrel I think; threaded mechanism, plastic threads; clip has 'Germany' on its edge, no other markings; cap gold band has Meisterstuck with double dot umlaut between the upper points of the U, but those points are each curiously curved in at the top so it looks a little like an incomplete O with bits missing at the top; snowflake is solid white, no translucency.

 

This seems to put it 1965-70, do you think? Any comments about the umlaut?

 

Photos are my first attempt at close-ups I'm afraid.

Edited October 18, 2012 by MLB51

[karmakoda]

I've had this 149 since I was given it (used) in 1973. The barrel was cracked and leaked ink, but a few years later, maybe 1978-80 I had it re-barrelled by Pencraft, Burlington Arcade, Piccadilly, London and it's worked fine but I've never been able to date it. Thanks to the superb chart I'm getting close.

It's got an 18C tri-colour 750 nib; feed is round ebonite, grooves face; single-unit barrel I think; threaded mechanism, plastic threads; clip has 'Germany' on its edge, no other markings; cap gold band has Meisterstuck with double dot umlaut between the upper points of the U, but those points are each curiously curved in at the top so it looks a little like an incomplete O with bits missing at the top; snowflake is solid white, no translucency.

 

This seems to put it 1965-70, do you think? Any comments about the umlaut?

Welcome, and Congratulations, wonderful pen, spectacular nib. The undisturbed colour of the gold patina and pristine platinum, is what I enjoy.

I think your age estimate is close, well done. In this case the nib and feed are the more informative features. The umlaut is consistent with 18C pens of this era. More organizing of the umlaut information needs to be done before it is a specific dating tool.

The gold band at the piston mechanism appears to be the wider, flat band confirming the threaded in piston mech you mentioned. Is it possible that the 1978 barrel replacement might have replaced an earlier piston mechanism as well? The threaded mechanism, if original, may place your pen in the upper part of your estimate, say 1968-1972? Of course, knowing you received the pen, used, in 1973 is very helpful.

I'm not an expert, just an enthusiastic trainee, but you have a superb pen, perhaps in need of some gentle restoration. Cheers.

[MLB51]

Thanks for the welcome, Karmakoda! Re the barrel, I think it's entirely possible that the barrel is later than the rest of the pen, but I don't have any tools and with minimal skills I'm not planning to try and take it apart. Looking at the photos of what the innards might look like it's too risky for me to try and open it up, but even if the barrel is later, I don't think it can be by much.

 

I've got a load of other pens I no longer need and I'm taking photos of them this weekend, so I'll try and refine my skills and get better shots of the umlaut and barrel.

 

Glad I joined, it's great fun learning about this pen. Time to go to other brand forums (fora?) and see if I can match up any of the others!

 

Thanks

[karmakoda]

Hello MLB51

 

Your pen is quite fine, as is, if it is functioning well. The clip appears to be a little bent, you can have it repaired, not replaced.

I agree, don't take anything apart. Barrels do get replaced, not something that can be undone, or to be concerned about, and the pen's value is not going to be affected to any great degree.

Plus, as a writing instrument, they really don't get much better than what you have. That nib is as good as it gets.

Enjoy exploring the FPN, you will find helpful, generous people wonderfully obsessed with their pens.

Best of Regards

 

Greg

 

PS Wonderful to see the beautiful flag of Wales!

[Fab75]

Thanks to all, this is a fantastic post.

 

I just saw a 149 with a plastic feed and a two part barrels with a 18C Nib. I assume it a recent 149 on which a vintage nib has been installed. Sawing your chart i'm totally unable to date this pen.

I assume this nib will offer some flex, what is the advantage of having an ebonite feed versus a plastic feed?

I have attached a pict of the Nib, is someone can help me for the size and confirm this model will have flex?

DOes it make sens to buy this pen in comparaison to a recent one with a 18K nib??

 

All the best

Fabrice

[karmakoda]

Hi Fabrice

I replied to your other post in the MB Forum.

I wish the nib was in better condition, but it does produce good line variation and the photograph indicates only moderate pressure was used.

It appears to be a B (Broad) semi-flexible nib. It's a nice pen but because of the nib's condition and the replaced barrel, I would expect the price to be less than a newer 149 with an 18K nib.

149s usually range from stiff to semi-flexible at best, with some exceptions. So far, I've never seen a fully flexible nib on a Montblanc 149.

So, decent pen, produces a great line, it's a good buy at the right price.

Cheers

Greg

[Inked]

Newly revised version

 

 

 

 

Hello Mr. Wong

 

 

Is it possible to get a larger version of this chart?

 

I do not mean to complain, at all, however I cannot read some of the info on it. When I try to enlarge it it blurs out.

 

Is it possible to post it as the previous versions that expand when you click on them?

 

Thank you and sorry for the trouble.

 

Inked

[robmcdade]

Hi there, i'm trying to date my 149 but i am getting confused trying to measure it on the chart. It has a 14c tri tone nib with what i think is a single barrel and a plastic thread. The feeder is a split ebonite which is cofusing me! Any help would be great. Here are a few pictures...

[humsin]

We should add the new Au750 nib to the chart.

[Inked]

Hi there, i'm trying to date my 149 but i am getting confused trying to measure it on the chart. It has a 14c tri tone nib with what i think is a single barrel and a plastic thread. The feeder is a split ebonite which is cofusing me! Any help would be great. Here are a few pictures...

 

 

Looks like the feed may have been changed out for some reason.

 

 

Inked

[emraher]

I have been looking to 149s on ebay and comparing them with the chart just to learn stuff. I saw this feed which doesn't match with any of the feeds represented in the chart. Did I miss some pictures on the thread mentioning different feeds that are not represented in the chart or this is something unusual?

 

By the way the chart is very informative, thanks to all who put effort into it.

 

 

http://i.ebayimg.com/t/Authentic-Montblanc-Meisterstuck-149-/00/s/MTIwMFgxNjAw/z/mo4AAOxyoA1RULXy/$T2eC16RHJF8E9nnC7Q-WBRUL()qPc!~~60_32.JPG?rt=nc

 

 

 

EDIT: I think it's 60s feed, at least this Pentrace article defines it like that.

 

EDIT2: Actually the chart shows this feed. I couldn't see the grooves in the round ebonite in the first look. Sorry for posting this.

Edited April 1, 2013 by emraher

[constantious]

so much info to digest!

[Tritonus]

Thanks to all concerned for this chart - I was trying to date my used 149 that I bought off FPN and this has been most helpful. From the chart I now know that my pen is an early 1990's model. I do have a question though and that is when I sent my 149 for service, MB changed the feed even though it was not damaged and now I have the modern plastic feed as opposed to the old plastic feed. Is this common practice and will it devalue the pen? The pen however, is writing nicely now compared to when I first got it.

(PS I only realized that I had the modern feed after consulting this chart and now I clearly remember the old feed was the old plastic one after seeing photos of it here!)

 

Thanks,

Ron