FPN Ink Label!!!!!!

[Maja]

Portrait of Galileo by Sustermans

Ditto!

[Ron Z]

I rather like a pen and ink drawing for a bottle.

 

Otherwise, no opinion.

[BMWRT]

I like the portrait the best.

I certainly want a bottle or 2 when it becomes available

Edited September 29, 2006 by BMWRT

[wiglaf]

Just a quick note- the paintings are obviously within the public domain, however the specific reproductions are probably not- sort of a Platonic nightmare for ink bottle designers, but a boon to copyright attorneys-

 

A fine sketch might do- possibly of his "telescope" as pen sketching the moons of Jupiter- hmmm- glad I cannot draw.

 

Tony

[Kelly]

I like Sustermans very much but also found this one very intriguing and just . It's very probable that we can't use it but maybe one of the talented folks here could come up with something similar?? Notice the inkwell Here's the original link from a Google images search. There are definiately reproduction fees, etc.

 

http://images.google.com/imgres?imgurl=htt...6lr%3D%26sa%3DN

 

http://www.inkart.com/images/lineart/galileo.gif

 

 

*edited for main link inclusion

Edited September 30, 2006 by Kelly

[Maja]

Oooh, I like that drawing, Kelly! It has a writing desk, an inkwell and pen....and astronomy!!

Bravo!!

[Scorpio]

Susterman's Galileo

[einv]

if i may opine, galileo's recantation is the worst of the lot, as it is a shameful episode in the relations between the church and science. i would definitely go for his teaching his disciple, or else a quotation from sagredo or simplicio, and the ink could be easily called "dialog" or the full title of his dialog of the two new sciences.

 

or else, there is always his famous quote on the use of geometry in science (see below).

 

but, please, leave the catholic church out of this! we don't want this to be a science vs. religion thing yet again, remember ink bottles are supposed to bring enlightenment, not promote dark superstitions (namely that the sun goes around the earth); poor galileo was forced to recant to save his hide and it won't do to celebrate that. besides, do not forget that the catholic church finally recanted the original charge against galileo recently, making the whole affair a closed book.

 

plenty of enlightened samples of galileo's writing, from the dialog, are available in the public domain. here is the famous example:

 

"The great book of nature lies ever open before our eyes and the true philosophy is written in it . . .but we cannot read it unless we have first learned the language and the characters in which it is written. . . It is written in mathematical language and the characters are triangles, circles, and other geometric figures. . ."

 

(excerpt from "Saggiatore, Opere VI, p. 232" as found on george polya's book called mathematical methods in science)

 

i am sure giovanni or another pentracer of italian origin who is into science can find the original translation. you could also ask various libraries to provide a copy of that particular page and use it.

Edited September 30, 2006 by einv

[wdyasq]

I rather like a pen and ink drawing for a bottle.

 

Otherwise, no opinion.

How about that in the exact color of ink? Or, just a simple label

 

Noodles's

FPN Ink

Galileo Brown

 

In the true color of the Ink or possible the Negative. Maybe the 'image' needs to be in a negative.....

 

Throwing stuff out - maybe some will stick, maybe not.

 

Will it be available at the Dallas show?

 

Ron

 

If I did smiley stuff I would have put an evil grin after the show suggestion....

[Viseguy]

A few thoughts:

 

* An image of Galileo's handwriting would certainly be apropos, but:

- might lose impact or be too hard to decipher on small ink-bottle label

- might be misconstrued as representing the color of the ink itself, and could lead to "false advertising" claims (however spurious).

 

* In any event, the recantation is TOTALLY inappropriate as a choice of text. Presumably our purpose is to honor and celebrate Galileo's great achievements, not draw attention to one of the bleakest days of his life!

 

* Similarly, the painting of Galileo's trial, while colorful and dramatic, doesn't strike the right note, IMO. Not as sour as the recantation, but still... Why show the poor guy being persecuted?

 

* The Sustermans portrait is familiar, and would make a nice label, but it bears a copyright notice by "IMSS Firenze", which I believe refers to Istituto e Museo di Storia della Scienza in Florence, Italy. At least we know where to go to ask for permission. Here is the contact information: http://www.imss.fi.it/econtatti.html. And here are instructions for requesting permission to use images: http://www.imss.fi.it/biblio/erequests.html.

 

* This Spanish-language page has several Galileo images.* I like the one below (note the inkwell and quill pen -- and the FPN blue!). The artist and title of the painting aren't identified. There is a copyright notice at the bottom of the page from Grupo Editorial Bitácora. Not clear if they are claiming a copyright for all of the images.

 

In any event, glad to see we're making progress!

 

--

* It also has some supremely annoying pop-up adds; click on the tiny "X" in the upper right corner to get rid of them.

Edited September 30, 2006 by Viseguy

[Kelly]

Great photo, Viseguy - that's the one I was trying to get but couldn't! Happy you were able to post it

[Elaine]

* The Sustermans portrait is familiar, and would make a nice label, but it bears a copyright notice by "IMSS Firenze", which I believe refers to Istituto e Museo di Storia della Scienza in Florence, Italy. At least we know where to go to ask for permission. Here is the contact information: http://www.imss.fi.it/econtatti.html. And here are instructions for requesting permission to use images: http://www.imss.fi.it/biblio/erequests.html.

Thank you! That's just the kind of info we're looking for

[Viseguy]

Great photo, Viseguy - that's the one I was trying to get but couldn't! Happy you were able to post it  

Thanks, Kelly. I sure wish I could identify the artist! :bonk: I sent the picture to the N.Y. Public Library's "Ask Librarians" service and asked them to identify it and, also, if they know whether the image is in the public domain or who owns the copyright. If they come back with any useful info., I will certainly post it here.

[thewolfgang]

I like the Spanish image for its clarity and strength, and for the prominence of the quill and inkwell.

 

BTW, do we know how and by who the FPN logo will be incorporated into the overall design?

 

Amazing the prompt and comprehensive input from members (and this has probably been just the beginning).

[Ann Finley]

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v12/elainepnj/Pens/FPNink/recantation.jpg

If "manuscript" is part of the name (the 1st post in this thread says FPN Galileo Manuscript Ink), I think part of the manuscript is more fitting than anything else if it is legally usable. I don't think it needs to be decipherable.

 

Best, Ann

[WillAdams]

I am not a lawyer and this is not legal advice.

 

Digital imaging licensing is thorny 'cause a recent court decision tossed out the precept that an accurate scan of a public domain image could be copyrighted. Because of this, such images are protected by license agreements enacted when the image is transferred and a prohibition on photography at the institution.

 

So, you need to know the provenance of the scan to be sure to be free of legal entanglements.

 

An alternative might be to use the image from the old Italian Lira:

 

http://www2.physics.umd.edu/~redish/Money/

 

http://www2.physics.umd.edu/~redish/Money/galileo.jpg

 

William

(who prefers the handwriting sample)

Edited September 30, 2006 by WillAdams

[Carrie]

Elaine, PM sent giving some details of dealing with picture libraries etc for image repro rights.

[WillAdams]

viseguy, the image you found on the Spanish site:

 

 

Is by H.W. Wyatt, early 1800s if memory serves. There's an engraving of it by Samuel Sartain which is more frequently reproduced --- if you can find a copy of the engraving to scan you're all set.

 

William

(who would be glad to do the typesetting and layout of the label as pro bono)

[umenohana]

Here's a my little charcoal version of the painting by Sustermans..:

umenohanagalileo

[jackoguit]

The KISS principle might be considered as we make our recommendation. KISS stands for Keep It Simple Stanley .

 

As a printer, I know that the least expensive press run for the label and box is on a single unit press which prints a single color. Reproducing a full color image requires printing on a 4 unit press, which is usually more expensive. Therefore, if we recommend a single color image, we may save the fine folks a Noodlers a couple of $.

 

Also- I like the sepia image of Galileo the best.

 

Also- using a printing ink for the label and box which comes closest to matching the FP ink inside is a plus to the potential buyer and a neat marketing move.

 

Casting aside the KISS principle for a moment - can we get the FPN logo on the label too? The modernity of the logo may clash with the Renaissance look of the artwork, but it would sure be nice to have our logo there somewhere!

 

Jack

Edited September 30, 2006 by jackoguit