Best Dip Pen/nib For Easy Multiple Ink Testing?

[Basset]

I just dip an Esterbrook in the ink for a second, wipe and write. To clean, I just run it under tap water or unscrew and rinse. Then blot dry, dip into the next ink for 1-2 secs, wipe and write. Seems to work quite well. I found dip nips did not reproduce the writing I get from FPs.

[SamCapote]

  On 7/5/2010 at 12:27 AM, Garageboy said:

Speedball Hunt 101 is the nib I use. Flexy, but pours on the ink. I also use an Esterbrook Dipless

 

I looked that up with example here showing the 431 models. Is that what you meant?

 

  On 7/5/2010 at 2:04 AM, Basset said:

I just dip an Esterbrook in the ink for a second, wipe and write. To clean, I just run it under tap water or unscrew and rinse. Then blot dry, dip into the next ink for 1-2 secs, wipe and write. Seems to work quite well. I found dip nips did not reproduce the writing I get from FPs.

 

Thanks for both of your suggestions (and previous posters as well).

 

Not sure if you are using the same Esterbrook as Garageboy, but I'm searching for a nib that doesn't have the feed structure I saw in the 431 example above. I need something that will approach the performance of a fountain pen nib, which glass nibs don't, and the many other metal dip pen nibs with sharp points (I have tried about 20 different ones so far) don't. I want to quickly switch from ink to ink by rinsing in a series of water glasses, and that dries 100% in a Kleenex so I don't have a water dillution effect on the next ink. Anything I have seen with a nib takes a long time to completely rinse and then dry out all the water inside the nib--just blotting dry doesn't get out all the water.

 

If I can find one that works, I like the idea of the metal nib for testing "harsher" inks, inks that are known to stain, those that have sediment, those that require more flushing, and including variations of pH ranges from 2 to 12. The reason I'm looking at these metal dip pens is they can be 100% cleaned & dried quickly. I probably will even add an additional middle rinses of Koh-I-Nor's Rapido Eze Cleaner, and/or alcohol to disinfect and not cross contaminate. without a concern for feed damage. The few styles I mentioned in OP have that adjustable metal reservoir which lets you regulate flow and gives you a chance to use those inks that won't load on a glass nib, or come flooding off the glass nib; and to use those inks that are not really designed for a dip pen.

 

If these 0.5mm Round Hand & Ornamental nibs don't approximate a fountain pen (which I can compare with known FP inks I have loaded & used), then perhaps the Esterbrook is another backup plan...but I don't think it will hold up to the kind of abuse I will be exposing it to.

[Garageboy]

The DipLess has a feed, so not quite what you're looking for. BUT, in fairness, it rinses quickly. You don't need a base, just the pen.

Worse case, find a junked fountain pen and use just the nib. Or take something like a cheap cartridge converter pen, use it as a dip and rinse. If you rinse, you can blow through the rear and with in 3 minutes, its clean)

Edited July 5, 2010 by Garageboy

[SamCapote]

  On 7/5/2010 at 3:42 AM, Garageboy said:

The DipLess has a feed, so not quite what you're looking for. BUT, in fairness, it rinses quickly. You don't need a base, just the pen.

Worse case, find a junked fountain pen and use just the nib. Or take something like a cheap cartridge converter pen, use it as a dip and rinse. If you rinse, you can blow through the rear and with in 3 minutes, its clean)

 

Yeah, I know I can use something like that, but I have 600-800 or more inks, and I'm looking for a much faster changeover process between inks than even 3 minutes. If I run into something like BSB which may stain or leave some residual, or some other pH incompatibility, I want something simple (& replaceable if needed). Just using the metal nib of a traditional FP (separating it from its feed) won't give the right capillary flow to be able to do:

 

• A) Samples of an entire line of inks at one sitting (like all PR, all MB, all Diamine, all R&K, probably a couple sittings for all my Noodlers) to be catalogued on both a single sheet, (or several pages) as a summary log system, and onto an index card for each ink, while adding a drop of Tryphon's Steril-Ink for long term storage. Then once that's done...

• Laying out all the various concise lists by company, and choose categories of colors and do groupings like you see at The Writing Desk. They currently have 286 inks listed.

• C) Selected, more traditional reviews, using steps A & B to highlight less common, nice looking, well behaved inks, and knowing which comparison colors to show.

Edited July 5, 2010 by SamCapote

[SamCapote]

Ahh, great news just now. I got all the nibs I wanted directly from Leonardt in UK, so when they arrive, I'll take some photos to illustrate. Here is a closeup of the 0.5mm Ornamental nib they had:

 

http://i61.photobucket.com/albums/h75/pike444/pens/DP400ANP24.jpg

[dcwaites]

Yep, that's the one.

 

I'll have to contact them myself, now. In fact, the more FPN dip pen users who do contact them might tell them something...

[dizzypen]

  On 7/5/2010 at 6:13 AM, SamCapote said:

  On 7/5/2010 at 3:42 AM, Garageboy said:

The DipLess has a feed, so not quite what you're looking for. BUT, in fairness, it rinses quickly. You don't need a base, just the pen.

Worse case, find a junked fountain pen and use just the nib. Or take something like a cheap cartridge converter pen, use it as a dip and rinse. If you rinse, you can blow through the rear and with in 3 minutes, its clean)

 

Yeah, I know I can use something like that, but I have 600-800 or more inks, and I'm looking for a much faster changeover process between inks than even 3 minutes. If I run into something like BSB which may stain or leave some residual, or some other pH incompatibility, I want something simple (& replaceable if needed). Just using the metal nib of a traditional FP (separating it from its feed) won't give the right capillary flow to be able to do:

 

Correct me if I'm wrong, but isn't that the problem with any dip pen set-up? Don't you need a feed in order to get accurate flow? If you use a feed then that will increase the time it takes for your to do this.

 

I think you're best bet is to get as close as you can. Have you even tried a fountain pen nib without the feed? I've been using mine for at least 6 months. I haven't met an ink that wouldn't work with it.

 

jbb has mentioned fashioning a wax (beeswax?) feed for dip pens...

[SamCapote]

  On 7/7/2010 at 12:26 PM, dizzypen said:

  On 7/5/2010 at 6:13 AM, SamCapote said:

  On 7/5/2010 at 3:42 AM, Garageboy said:

The DipLess has a feed, so not quite what you're looking for. BUT, in fairness, it rinses quickly. You don't need a base, just the pen.

Worse case, find a junked fountain pen and use just the nib. Or take something like a cheap cartridge converter pen, use it as a dip and rinse. If you rinse, you can blow through the rear and with in 3 minutes, its clean)

 

Yeah, I know I can use something like that, but I have 600-800 or more inks, and I'm looking for a much faster changeover process between inks than even 3 minutes. If I run into something like BSB which may stain or leave some residual, or some other pH incompatibility, I want something simple (& replaceable if needed). Just using the metal nib of a traditional FP (separating it from its feed) won't give the right capillary flow to be able to do:

 

Correct me if I'm wrong, but isn't that the problem with any dip pen set-up? Don't you need a feed in order to get accurate flow? If you use a feed then that will increase the time it takes for your to do this.

 

I think you're best bet is to get as close as you can. Have you even tried a fountain pen nib without the feed? I've been using mine for at least 6 months. I haven't met an ink that wouldn't work with it.

 

jbb has mentioned fashioning a wax (beeswax?) feed for dip pens...

 

I have not tried a fountain pen nib without a feed, so that is a backup plan, but I don't see it having the right flow without its feed as I said earlier.

 

My interest in the dip pen idea started with using the typical glass spiral which was so quick and easy to rinse, even if it never really held enough ink, despite twirling to find the next groove with ink left--to give a satisfactory overall experience. As I tested more inks, I noticed a number of them that do not cling to the glass, and most of the lines being made were way too heavy and wet. I'm persisting a bit longer with the metal dip pens because like a fountain pen nib alone, they are relatively impervious to staining, damage, clogging (under normal use), and quickly/easily rinse clean like the glass dips.

 

Almost all of the metal dip nibs I have seen and used have sharp edges and/or points that are nothing like the smoothness of a FP nib--with the exception of the Round Hand, and from the closeup image (& dcwaites reports)--likely the Leonardt Ornamental nib. Both of these nib styles come with an effective reservoir cap system that both holds a decent amount of ink, and maintains a consistent flowing line for longer reviews...yet are easily rinsed clean. I'm pretty sure I will use a 3 cup rinse system (water-->KohiNoor or alcohol-->water) to avoid cross contamination.

 

When you stop and think about using a metal FP nib as a dip with no reservoir, the flow doesn't last long, and each time you re-dip it you get more initial ink that begins to fade as used up. That is the benefit and design purpose of these few metal nibs that come with reservoirs. Beeswax would clog the slit, and again would not rinse clean with some (radical pH ranges and/or heavy staining) inks, and would be an easy way to contaminate bottle to bottle.

 

One thing I have already noticed is the round hand nib on right hand side of the OP image came with "Manuscript" nibs that have "Leonardt" printed on the metal, and the size #5 writes very smoothly. In the meantime, I ordered some Mitchell brand round hand from John Neals in both size #5 & smaller #6, and they write like (Potty Mouth). Bad flow, scratchy...not even close to the Leonardt #5. I'm still waiting on the Brause which should be here any day in their version of the ornamental which I will compare to Leonardt when those arrive from England next week.

 

dcwaites, you can see their catalog here on pdf, and when I contacted Penny (she was listed as contact at the Leonardt site), she sent me an Excel sheet of their prices in USD. How's this for a nice price: $22.89 for a box of 100 any size DP400 (or $12.06 for box of 24)? I ordered a bunch of other items also.

[dizzypen]

  On 7/7/2010 at 9:16 PM, SamCapote said:

  On 7/7/2010 at 12:26 PM, dizzypen said:

  On 7/5/2010 at 6:13 AM, SamCapote said:

  On 7/5/2010 at 3:42 AM, Garageboy said:

The DipLess has a feed, so not quite what you're looking for. BUT, in fairness, it rinses quickly. You don't need a base, just the pen.

Worse case, find a junked fountain pen and use just the nib. Or take something like a cheap cartridge converter pen, use it as a dip and rinse. If you rinse, you can blow through the rear and with in 3 minutes, its clean)

 

Yeah, I know I can use something like that, but I have 600-800 or more inks, and I'm looking for a much faster changeover process between inks than even 3 minutes. If I run into something like BSB which may stain or leave some residual, or some other pH incompatibility, I want something simple (& replaceable if needed). Just using the metal nib of a traditional FP (separating it from its feed) won't give the right capillary flow to be able to do:

 

Correct me if I'm wrong, but isn't that the problem with any dip pen set-up? Don't you need a feed in order to get accurate flow? If you use a feed then that will increase the time it takes for your to do this.

 

I think you're best bet is to get as close as you can. Have you even tried a fountain pen nib without the feed? I've been using mine for at least 6 months. I haven't met an ink that wouldn't work with it.

 

jbb has mentioned fashioning a wax (beeswax?) feed for dip pens...

 

Almost all of the metal dip nibs I have seen and used have sharp edges and/or points that are nothing like the smoothness of a FP nib--with the exception of the Round Hand, and from the closeup image (& dcwaites reports)--likely the Leonardt Ornamental nib. Both of these nib styles come with an effective reservoir cap system that both holds a decent amount of ink, and maintains a consistent flowing line for longer reviews...yet are easily rinsed clean. I'm pretty sure I will use a 3 cup rinse system (water-->KohiNoor or alcohol-->water) to avoid cross contamination.

 

When you stop and think about using a metal FP nib as a dip with no reservoir, the flow doesn't last long, and each time you re-dip it you get more initial ink that begins to fade as used up. That is the benefit and design purpose of these few metal nibs that come with reservoirs. Beeswax would clog the slit, and again would not rinse clean with some (radical pH ranges and/or heavy staining) inks, and would be an easy way to contaminate bottle to bottle.

 

 

And, what if that flow is consistently too wet?

[SamCapote]

  On 7/7/2010 at 11:29 PM, dizzypen said:

  On 7/7/2010 at 9:16 PM, SamCapote said:

  On 7/7/2010 at 12:26 PM, dizzypen said:

  On 7/5/2010 at 6:13 AM, SamCapote said:

  On 7/5/2010 at 3:42 AM, Garageboy said:

The DipLess has a feed, so not quite what you're looking for. BUT, in fairness, it rinses quickly. You don't need a base, just the pen.

Worse case, find a junked fountain pen and use just the nib. Or take something like a cheap cartridge converter pen, use it as a dip and rinse. If you rinse, you can blow through the rear and with in 3 minutes, its clean)

 

Yeah, I know I can use something like that, but I have 600-800 or more inks, and I'm looking for a much faster changeover process between inks than even 3 minutes. If I run into something like BSB which may stain or leave some residual, or some other pH incompatibility, I want something simple (& replaceable if needed). Just using the metal nib of a traditional FP (separating it from its feed) won't give the right capillary flow to be able to do:

 

Correct me if I'm wrong, but isn't that the problem with any dip pen set-up? Don't you need a feed in order to get accurate flow? If you use a feed then that will increase the time it takes for your to do this.

 

I think you're best bet is to get as close as you can. Have you even tried a fountain pen nib without the feed? I've been using mine for at least 6 months. I haven't met an ink that wouldn't work with it.

 

jbb has mentioned fashioning a wax (beeswax?) feed for dip pens...

 

Almost all of the metal dip nibs I have seen and used have sharp edges and/or points that are nothing like the smoothness of a FP nib--with the exception of the Round Hand, and from the closeup image (& dcwaites reports)--likely the Leonardt Ornamental nib. Both of these nib styles come with an effective reservoir cap system that both holds a decent amount of ink, and maintains a consistent flowing line for longer reviews...yet are easily rinsed clean. I'm pretty sure I will use a 3 cup rinse system (water-->KohiNoor or alcohol-->water) to avoid cross contamination.

 

When you stop and think about using a metal FP nib as a dip with no reservoir, the flow doesn't last long, and each time you re-dip it you get more initial ink that begins to fade as used up. That is the benefit and design purpose of these few metal nibs that come with reservoirs. Beeswax would clog the slit, and again would not rinse clean with some (radical pH ranges and/or heavy staining) inks, and would be an easy way to contaminate bottle to bottle.

 

 

And, what if that flow is consistently too wet?

 

Then like the glass dip pens, that would be another failed option, piled upon the trash heap of about 30 dip pen nibs I have already rejected and will likely never use.

 

However, I do have my success with the Leonardt round hand in size #5 to reassure me, including the fact that the metal reservoir can be adjusted forward/backwards &or bent to affect ink flow...and dcwaites' endorsement of the 0.5mm Leonardt ornamental.

[SamCapote]

dcwaites, I got the Brause ornamental in 0.7mm & 0.5mm, from PenCity.com today, and boy were you right!!!

 

This is what I had been looking for. While I await the Leonardt next week, these are more than adequate. I was surprised to see that these Brause have two reservoir clips on the front and back. The .7mm writes like a typical medium nib....smooth as butter, consistent, regular flow with no skips, even as fast as I can write with it, and I'm guessing will fill about two full 8.5 x 11" size pages on a single dip.

 

The 0.5mm size writes like a extra fine nib. Not as buttery as the .7mm, but not scratchy or sharp either. It is quite similar to other EF nibs in terms of feel, but despite being a finer line than the Lamy EF nib, it actually writes a bit smoother with testing I just did using Montblanc Royal Blue ink. The finest EF FP nib is my Sailor 1911 which is a bit thinner and smoother than this 0.5mm Brause, but they are known for their high quality. This also had the double reservoir, easily would write 2-3 full pages, and again has consistent, even flowing the whole time. If I could not have gotten the Leonardt's, I would be more than happy with this Brause brand.

 

Perfect, Perfect, Perfect, and exactly what I was hoping for. :bunny01: My search for the Holy Grail dip nib is over, and while the Leonardt brand may be even better in terms of feel, these seem to be very high quality. I'll update when I get those and compare.

[Ravenmoon]

I have several vintage dip pens/nibs, in particular a couple of 14K nibs from Pendemonium that work very well, write smoothly, and go for between 1/2 and a full page on a dip. If you're looking for variety on top of what you have... Meanwhile, I may try some of the ones you got, too!

[SamCapote]

Very interesting comparing the Leonardt to the Brause. Honestly, because the Brause has reservoirs on both sides of the nib, it gives much better flow, and simulates an Extra Fine nib. I'm finding a number of the 0.5mm Leonardt Ornamentals in the box do not have well aligned tines, and are more tempermental with small adjustments of the reservoir. One of the worst dip pen inks which I'm using intentionally is Montblanc Royal Blue. It is pretty watery, won't cling at all to a glass spiral dip pen (even if cleaned with soap &/or alcohol), and is a good test with these metal dip pens. Without reservation, the double sided set of reservoirs in the Brause 0.5mm ornamental performs well with this ink, and much better than the 0.5mm Leonardt, even after getting the tines perfect, and reservoir set just right. For most inks that would work well with a glass nib, the Leonardt works fine. My recommendation is the Brause as best of all these I have tested. Here's a couple closeups of these two nibs, with Leonardt on the left, and Brause on the right.

 

http://i61.photobucket.com/albums/h75/pike444/pens/IMG_0924.jpg

 

http://i61.photobucket.com/albums/h75/pike444/pens/IMG_0921.jpg

[adt475]

Take a look at this older post

 

https://www.fountainpennetwork.com/forum/index.php?/topic/73273-10-piston-filler-demonstrators-f-m-steel-nibs-250-conus-shipping/page__pid__974863&do=findComment&comment=974863

[SamCapote]

  On 7/20/2010 at 4:56 AM, adt475 said:

Take a look at this older post

 

http://www.fountainp...863#entry974863

 

It's an older closed sales thread that has no relationship to what this thread is about, but other than that, it is a nice sales thread. Did you have some other unrelated threads about puppies you wanted me to see? I always like seeing puppies.

[mikey]

Hello SamCapote and dcwaites,

 

I know this is an old thread but do either of you have any experience/opinions on the Leonardt DP300 "ball point" nib? Also, what about the Hunt 512 "bowl point"? If so, how would these compare to the Leonardt DP400 "ornamental" and Brause 0.5 "ornamental" nibs dicuseed above?

 

Thanks,

Mike

[SamCapote]

  On 11/13/2010 at 6:23 AM, mikey said:

Hello SamCapote and dcwaites,

 

I know this is an old thread but do either of you have any experience/opinions on the Leonardt DP300 "ball point" nib? Also, what about the Hunt 512 "bowl point"? If so, how would these compare to the Leonardt DP400 "ornamental" and Brause 0.5 "ornamental" nibs dicuseed above?

 

Thanks,

Mike

 

Mike, thanks for your question. I did not try either of those specific models, but they may be worth trying, depending on your intended purpose. I see that the Leonardt DP300 model has a Nickel finish which would be better than the polished steel DP400 Ornamentals I got, as they are very easy to rust if left in water for relatively short periods (hours). The Brause do not have this same "easy rusting" problem, and either the 0.5 or 0.7mm I got from PenCity.com here continue to exceed all of my expectations. One concern I would have with the DP300 or Hunt is their lack of a reservoir, leading to variations in flow initially and as it runs out.

 

I cannot emphasize enough, the benefit of having a reservoir holding a "puddle" of ink from which the slit draws from, in replicating a consistent "fountain pen flow" if this is your intended purpose. I found reservoirs on Round and Ornamental nibs, with the latter being closer to a FP nib feel. The Brause nib quality, tine alignment, non-rusting, in addition to the double reservoirs, gives a clearly superior, and skip-free experience.

 

Obviously, there are all the other stroke variations that fancy/calligraphy/elegant writing nibs requires. My search was for a very specific purpose of testing a large number of inks where I did not want to go through drawing each up, rinsing, drying, etc., that FP's using feeds/pistons/cartridges/fillers require. I also wanted to come reasonably close to the even strokes and flow we expect in most of our FP's. For that limited purpose, hands down the Brause Ornamental 0.5 or 0.7mm is the Holy Grail for me personally.

[Parse Error]

for all purposes I use a sharpened stick to test my inks.

[SamCapote]

  On 11/13/2010 at 9:12 AM, Parse Error said:

for all purposes I use a sharpened stick to test my inks.

 

LOL! Going cave-man on us? :roflmho:

[dcwaites]

  On 11/13/2010 at 6:23 AM, mikey said:

Hello SamCapote and dcwaites,

 

I know this is an old thread but do either of you have any experience/opinions on the Leonardt DP300 "ball point" nib? Also, what about the Hunt 512 "bowl point"? If so, how would these compare to the Leonardt DP400 "ornamental" and Brause 0.5 "ornamental" nibs dicuseed above?

 

Thanks,

Mike

 

I haven't tried the DP300, but I do have the Hunt 512. It is not suitable, nor would I think the DP300 would be suitable, because the end of the nib is quite different from a FP nib. It is quite sharp, and has a small turn up at the end (the 'Bowl' or 'Ball Point').

 

To replicate the behaviour of a fountain pen you need, as SamCapote said, a reservoir to control the flow of ink to the nib tip. As well, the ones he and I have been using, have a relatively wide, flat tip of at least 0.5mm wide, that replicate the tip of a fountain pen nib.

 

Currently, my preferred nib for ink testing is a Perry Iridinoid 105 nib. This has a folded tip that is similar to what you will find on cheaper fountain pens (like the original Pilot Varsity) and a substantial reservoir built-in under the nib.