Dr. Ph. Martins Bombay Ink?

[Vargouille]

I saw this really cheap on Etsy (Shutup, and no affiliation), and it looks good. My only worry is using it with fountain pens, because of the fact that it is India Ink, which I have been told should never touch a fountain pen. I was wondering whether this is an exception, and if there are any issues with using it in fountain pens, even though it says it should be kosher. Before putting it in one of my few pens, I thought it would be a good idea to ask the opinions of the "penperts".

[Randal6393]

Use in dip pens only. Unless you enjoy destroying your fountain pens.

 

Best of luck,

[jaross]

so umm, they told me at my local art suppily shot it should be fine and I put it in my Kaweco Sport...and needless to day it did not work so well...soaking the sport now, what else should I do? At least it was a $15 pen...

[PianoMan14]

Those art supply store people in most cases think everything with a metal quilly thing on the end is a dip pen.  Don't trust them.  And your Kaweco is probably ruined without a lot of clean-up effort.  You can try soaking it in various solvents.

[jaross]

Those art supply store people in most cases think everything with a metal quilly thing on the end is a dip pen.  Don't trust them.  And your Kaweco is probably ruined without a lot of clean-up effort.  You can try soaking it in various solvents.

 

Koh-I-Noor pen cleaner was more then I payed for the pen. I tried dish detergent. I need to do it over night though, right?

[corniche]

Greetings V.,

 

Do not use Dr. Martin's in a fountain pen- it is a shellac-based ink. The problem with most of these art supply chains is the manufacturers usually write the description and then pay to have it included in the art supplier's catalog. This is how the Walther's catalog works too, (for any model railroaders out there). Dr. Martin was making the false/mistaken claim a couple years ago that their inks could be used in fountain pens and it caused a lot of confusion all over the place. If you look at the current art supply catalogs, (at least from the art supply company I use), that claim is no longer found in the product description for Dr. Martin's India inks- but it had been a couple of years ago. I think there are some out there who are still claiming it can be used in fountain pens- but don't believe it- they are mistaken.

 

The only inks that can be used in a fountain pen are water miscible analine dye based inks. No pigments and no solvent other than water.

 

The bottom line answer- no, you can't.

 

All the best,

 

Sean

Edited December 4, 2010 by S. P. Colfer

[SamCapote]

Greetings V.,

 

Do not use Dr. Martin's in a fountain pen- it is a shellac-based ink. The problem with most of these art supply chains is the manufacturers usually write the description and then pay to have it included in the art supplier's catalog. This is how the Walther's catalog works too, (for any model railroaders out there). Dr. Martin was making the false/mistaken claim a couple years ago that their inks could be used in fountain pens and it caused a lot of confusion all over the place. If you look at the current art supply catalogs, (at least from the art supply company I use), that claim is no longer found in the product description for Dr. Martin's India inks- but it had been a couple of years ago. I think there are some out there who are still claiming it can be used in fountain pens- but don't believe it- they are mistaken.

 

The only inks that can be used in a fountain pen are water miscible analine dye based inks. No pigments and no solvent other than water.

 

The bottom line answer- no, you can't.

 

All the best,

 

Sean

 

Unfortunately, the claim is still being made at DickBlicks here, which says at end of first paragraph: "They adhere to nearly all surfaces and are non-clogging when used in pens."

[jbb]

+1. Use for dip pen only.

[SamCapote]

Just out of curiosity, I thought I would try one of these inks with my Brause Ornamental 0.5mm Dip Nibs that have dual reservoirs to give you a good amount of writing and generous flow. Unlike every other ink I have used this on, the Dr. Martin's Violet Bombay India Ink which says it is ok for fountain pens, wrote horribly in this example on the Ampad Gold Fibre tablet. It felt a bit scratchy, but kept skipping.

 

They say it is water soluable, but when I dipped the pen in distilled water, there was an initial surface pool, with a concentrated trail that went straight down to the bottom without dispersing. When I swirled the pen, it did then become diffusely mixed...but it was a curious behavior to watch.

 

After rinsing for 20 sec under tap water, then dipping in isopropyl alcohol, then re-rinsing and wiping dry with kleenex, I assumed the metal dip pen was clean. I was wrong. Upon removing of the two reservoir attachments, there was still a layer of the purple ink adherent to the metal nib and underside of both reservoirs. I used their Bombay Pen cleaner (which looks and smells EXACTLY like Windex) on a kleenex, which immediately removed the remaining coating. Even still, I would have a hard time calling this dip pen friendly, unless you used their "Windex" cleaner every time.

 

Finally, I figured it would be interesting to see what it looked like under the microscope, and the examples below essentially define a pigmented ink. I contrast it with some recent views I took of a 70 year old Carter's Tulip Purple ink.

 

 

 

http://i61.photobucket.com/albums/h75/pike444/Inks/Martins/Martins-Violet3s.jpg

 

 

 

http://i61.photobucket.com/albums/h75/pike444/Inks/Martins/Martins-Violet1s.jpg http://i61.photobucket.com/albums/h75/pike444/Inks/Martins/Martins-Violet2s.jpg

 

 

 

http://i61.photobucket.com/albums/h75/pike444/Inks/Carter/CartersTulipmicro1s.jpg

http://i61.photobucket.com/albums/h75/pike444/Inks/Carter/CartersTulipmicro2s.jpg

 

.

[AlecG]

Sam, just a quick question, does sailor kiwa-guro look about the same under 400x magnification?

[professionaldilettante]

Greetings V.,

 

Do not use Dr. Martin's in a fountain pen- it is a shellac-based ink. The problem with most of these art supply chains is the manufacturers usually write the description and then pay to have it included in the art supplier's catalog. This is how the Walther's catalog works too, (for any model railroaders out there). Dr. Martin was making the false/mistaken claim a couple years ago that their inks could be used in fountain pens and it caused a lot of confusion all over the place. If you look at the current art supply catalogs, (at least from the art supply company I use), that claim is no longer found in the product description for Dr. Martin's India inks- but it had been a couple of years ago. I think there are some out there who are still claiming it can be used in fountain pens- but don't believe it- they are mistaken.

 

The only inks that can be used in a fountain pen are water miscible analine dye based inks. No pigments and no solvent other than water.

 

The bottom line answer- no, you can't.

 

All the best,

 

Sean

Sailor and Platinum both make carbon ink that works specifically with fountain pens, so to say that pigments are no no as a rule is false. It's rather, there are binders that clog up the pen, namely shellac and other glues that will ruin the pen when they dry.

[professionaldilettante]

Greetings V.,

 

Do not use Dr. Martin's in a fountain pen- it is a shellac-based ink. The problem with most of these art supply chains is the manufacturers usually write the description and then pay to have it included in the art supplier's catalog. This is how the Walther's catalog works too, (for any model railroaders out there). Dr. Martin was making the false/mistaken claim a couple years ago that their inks could be used in fountain pens and it caused a lot of confusion all over the place. If you look at the current art supply catalogs, (at least from the art supply company I use), that claim is no longer found in the product description for Dr. Martin's India inks- but it had been a couple of years ago. I think there are some out there who are still claiming it can be used in fountain pens- but don't believe it- they are mistaken.

 

The only inks that can be used in a fountain pen are water miscible analine dye based inks. No pigments and no solvent other than water.

 

The bottom line answer- no, you can't.

 

All the best,

 

Sean

 

Unfortunately, the claim is still being made at DickBlicks here, which says at end of first paragraph: "They adhere to nearly all surfaces and are non-clogging when used in pens."

For you and I, which the only pens are fountain pens yes, pens mean fountain pens. But like a square is also a rectangle, pens include dip pens. Back in the day, those were pens. Maybe they just forgot about us? then again... I'd be hard pressed to find someone refilling their ball points with this ink. Maybe it's just us, being like ink? liquid? sure we can fill with that!

[SamCapote]

Sam, just a quick question, does sailor kiwa-guro look about the same under 400x magnification?

 

Good question. Just checked it. Had to go to the perimeter where it thinned out enough to visualize. Pretty much the same.

 

 

http://i61.photobucket.com/albums/h75/pike444/Inks/Sailor/Kiwa-guros.jpg

[AlecG]

Thanks a lot for the fast response Samm!

But the particle size looks about to be the same, which would indicate that the clogging is not as much through particles but more through the glue/shellack in the India ink.

[SamCapote]

Thanks a lot for the fast response Samm!

But the particle size looks about to be the same, which would indicate that the clogging is not as much through particles but more through the glue/shellack in the India ink.

 

Yeah, although being water soluble after I stirred it, I don't believe the vehicle is glue/shellac in these Bombay India inks.

[AlecG]

I now wonder how much the sailor kiwaguro is indeed a nano-particle and more specific a nano-carbon (non-tubular?) particle or just a fancy name for regular very fine carbon.

[JoanB]

Hobby Lobby ad online 2012 "Dr. Ph Martin's Bombay white India Ink is a general purpose fine art pigment with great covering power that dries waterproof, opaque and light fast and holds a line without spreading.

 

It's non-clogging and flows freely off pens, tips, brushes and airbrushes and can be used for cartooning, designing, rubber stamping, lettering, calligraphy, pen and ink, background washes, and watercolor painting.

 

It adheres to almost all surfaces including paper, wood, plastic, vinyl, board and metal. AP certified non-toxic."

 

For people just getting into calligraphy and pens and nibs...I find this very confusing and not appropriate for inks that damage most "pens"...even the other calligraphy "pens" they sell in the store with converters. Grrrrrr.

[fiberdrunk]

Hobby Lobby ad online 2012 "Dr. Ph Martin's Bombay white India Ink is a general purpose fine art pigment with great covering power that dries waterproof, opaque and light fast and holds a line without spreading.

 

It's non-clogging and flows freely off pens, tips, brushes and airbrushes and can be used for cartooning, designing, rubber stamping, lettering, calligraphy, pen and ink, background washes, and watercolor painting.

 

It adheres to almost all surfaces including paper, wood, plastic, vinyl, board and metal. AP certified non-toxic."

 

For people just getting into calligraphy and pens and nibs...I find this very confusing and not appropriate for inks that damage most "pens"...even the other calligraphy "pens" they sell in the store with converters. Grrrrrr.

 

 

By pen, I suspect they mean technical pen, like a Rapidograph which you can use India inks in. As far as India inks go, if you're lucky enough to find one, Osmiroid made an India Ink Fountain Pen... it's designed to be taken apart for easy cleaning and can handle these inks. The Pilot Parallel can handle a lot of permanent inks, too, like acrylics, watercolor, gouache. At any rate, you wouldn't want to let such inks dry out in any pen.

[Uncle Red]

Pelikan makes an India Ink for FP's but it's not completely water proof. As for the Bombay, it says "flows freely off pens" not through pens.

[Penpradeepjain]

Art inks are used with Dip Pens only.