Ink leaking into cap

[Dr.Midnight]

Hi, I'm wondering if anyone here can help me out. I've been having a whole lot of trouble lately with my FP leaking ink into its cap. This is a particular problem for me, as I tend to post since I've gotten used to the balance of the pen that way. Anyway, last night I completely flushed the pen, and left it overnight to dry, filled it this morning. I was careful to cap the pen with the nib up, as I've heard this can be one source of ink in the cap. Put the pen in my shirt pocket (obviously nib up here) and drove to work. By the time I got there, the cap was full of ink. So I cleaned it out and recapped (nib up) and waited an hour. Took it out, and the cap was full of ink again. Cleaned it out, recapped, waited a half hour and guess what? Full of ink again.

 

It's almost as if the pen is taking its name literally and making a little fountain in there!

 

This particular pen is a Waterman, using Waterman ink, although I've been having problems with other brands as well.

 

Any advice anyone has would be greatly appreciated. Thanks!

[JBat]

Depends on how much ink you are talking about, but some nib creep is normal in a fountain pen and part of the joy of owning one. You need to be more specific about the amount of ink you're talking about.

[wheezur]

I would check to see if the inner cap has come loose so that it now is touching the nib when the pen is capped. This could allow capillary action to draw ink through the feed, at least until the level in the converter has dropped enough to loose capillary action.

[Dr.Midnight]

Thanks for your quick responses!

JBat: It's a fairly substantial amount of ink... more than mere nib creep, I believe. I can't think of a good way to measure it in milliliters, but when I clean it out there is more than just a few drops.

 

wheezur: I'm not sure I understand about the inner cap. I don't think this pen has one? It seems to be just a solid plastic cap. I should have been more specific about the brand. It is a Phileas, or actually, I think the predecessor to the Phileas... I got it before they offered them in different finishes, and I don't think they were calling them Phileas yet, but that's the basic model/style of the pen. Anyway, I can't see anything loose in there... how would I check this?

 

Again, thanks all for taking the time.

[jar]

The Phileas has an inner cap, in fact a two stage inner cap. My best guess is that you have somehow gotten ink between the cap and inner cap and until you can flush all that out and really dry everything, you will continue to get ink in the cap.

 

One other question, are you using cartridges or a converter?

[Dr.Midnight]

Wow, you guys are really educating me... I had no idea there was an inner cap. When I flushed it last night, I did it until the water ran clear, then let it dry overnight. Do you recommend soaking it overnight instead?

 

In answer to your question: a converter.

[jar]

Wow, you guys are really educating me... I had no idea there was an inner cap. When I flushed it last night, I did it until the water ran clear, then let it dry overnight. Do you recommend soaking it overnight instead?

 

In answer to your question: a converter.

 

It may take several overnight soaks, patience and persistence is needed.

 

Also, you may be getting an air leak in the converter that is aggravating and maybe even causing the problem. After another cap cleaning, try switching to cartridges and see if that helps. If so, toss the old converter and use a new one.

[wheezur]

Wow, you guys are really educating me... I had no idea there was an inner cap. When I flushed it last night, I did it until the water ran clear, then let it dry overnight. Do you recommend soaking it overnight instead?

 

In answer to your question: a converter.

 

It may take several overnight soaks, patience and persistence is needed.

 

Also, you may be getting an air leak in the converter that is aggravating and maybe even causing the problem. After another cap cleaning, try switching to cartridges and see if that helps. If so, toss the old converter and use a new one.

Yes, the Phileas has an inner cap, but after looking at mine I think that if the inner cap had come loose the pen would not cap properly - so that is probably not it. Jar has a good point, that there may be ink in the cap. I believe that jar means that you should wash the cap well (as opposed to flushing the nib and converter) to make sure that you get all of the ink out. If that does not resolve the problem, then I, too, would recommend that you try a cartridge.

[Dr.Midnight]

Thanks all for the great ideas. I'll soak the cap a few more times and try a cartridge and see what happens.

 

Again, thanks for the help.

[Shangas]

Be very patient when soaking the cap. Soaking to get rid of ink can take a surprisingly long time and it can't always be done in the space of a film. Leave it overnight (at least eight hours) and then try each morning. For every morning it doesn't work...shove it straight back into the water.

 

You might find some twisted up tissue-paper or some cotton-buds to be helpful when cleaning out ink inside the pen-cap, as well...

[Bo Bo Olson]

You need a rubber baby's ear washer as is, if you use converters/cartridges to flush out the nib. Minimal cost.

 

I have used it to vastly speed up flushing out an old Pelikan I had, that had sat with ink for years before I bought it. I had taken off the nib. I'd soaked it,and twisted and soaked and twisted. Still ink...five or six flushes with that suddenly there was no more ink.

 

That would put a bit of water force into the cap to wash it out.

 

Any way at all, if you stay with fountain pens, this cheap rubber ear washer is a grand tool.

I watched a video on You Tube, and then tried it my self. I cleaned my nib out from a cartridge pen inside of a minute.

I was ever so happy we had one laying around the house...check that first...it could be as almost standard home medical tool, you have one.

[Truffle Finder]

Having read this thread, I just thought that it might be possible that after thorough soaking, and drying, then filling to it's fullest capacity, it might just be that putting the pen in your shirt pocket, and thereby very close to your 'warm' chest, it could cause the ink to marginally expand, and where else can it go but into the cap. I remember a long time ago, a very experienced pen person explained to me that the possible reason for Mont Blanc recommending that 6 drops of ink be returned to the ink bottle [on page 30 of their instructions booklet I believe!] is to allow for minute expansion of the ink in the pen! It may be the case here. Try putting it in your jacket pocket one day, or perhaps drop a few drops of ink back in the ink bottle!

Truffle Finder.

[Dr.Midnight]

Truffle-- that's a really interesting point. One of the things I was wondering about was why a pen which had been nib up the entire time would even possibly be expelling ink. Of course, if it was left over ink in the cap it would already be there, but in this case it seems like an awful lot of ink...

[jar]

Truffle-- that's a really interesting point. One of the things I was wondering about was why a pen which had been nib up the entire time would even possibly be expelling ink. Of course, if it was left over ink in the cap it would already be there, but in this case it seems like an awful lot of ink...

 

Generally, cartridge and converter pens are less susceptible to BURPs from body heat than piston, plunger or vac-fill pens because the ink is kept in a separate internal container that is somewhat insulated by the airspace surrounding the cartridge or converter.

 

The "let a few drops out" practice is really done properly by letting those drops out, then turning the pen nib up while screwing the piston back to the rest position. It clears the air channels (to work the pen must allow air back in to replace the volume of ink used) and also makes sure excess ink is removed from the feed and collectors.

 

Burps from temperature or air pressure changes are most common in much older pens and usually when the pen is partially empty, not when just filled or near empty.

 

Have you ever dropped a baby bottle? It is amazing how far just those few ounces of milk can go and how large an area it can cover. Just the small amount of ink that can get between the cap and inner cap can be like that baby bottle, it can seem to last forever.

[chemgeek]

If any liquid remains in the cap (it can lodge tenaciously between the inner and outer caps on many pens) then the next time the pen is capped, the trapped liquid will wick additional ink out of the pen.

 

I've found the best way to completely remove ink residue from the cap is to place it in the ultrasound bath for one or two cycles. After that, I shake out the pen cap thoroughly, and then wick out remaining water by stuffing a rolled-up kleenex into the cap. After few minutes, the kleenex is removed and the cap allowed to thoroughly dry, preferably overnight. (This is best done when the pen and nib are empty.)

 

This treatment should normally stop the ink seepage. My Sailor 1911M pens are famous for doing what you describe, and once they get started, they won't quit until the cap is properly cleaned and dried.

 

Cheers.

[anderl]

Whether the leakage comes from ink expansion due to temperature gradients alone is easy to decide: clean the pen, cap it and uncap right away. If there's ink in the cap then, it didn't get there due to temperature expansion, because that process takes some time.

If there's ink, the next experiments to conduct might be: checking whether sudden or slow removal of the cap makes any difference in the amount of ink you find in the cap. And listening carefully whether there's a soft pop when you prise the cap open. If there is, I'd say this indicates that ink is being sucked out of the nib, by low pressure forming in the space between section and inner cap when you pull.

 

I'm writing this because I had (and still have but to a much lesser degree) the same symptoms with a Montblanc Carrera. There, the inner cap can be removed easily from the outer one, and one can actually watch how the suction pulls the ink out of the pen: The inner cap didn't have any breather holes at all, it's made of soft plastic, and fits too snugly around the section, -- the combination leading to the above effect.

I pricked some holes into the inner cap with a needle, and now the pen stays (almost totally) clean with most inks. (More viscous ones like PR Chocolat are still a problem, but not severe.) One probably shouldn't overdo it with those holes, the line between avoiding unwanted suction when opening the pen and hanging the nib out to dry might be a thin one.

 

Still under the assumption that suction is the reason for the leakage: perhaps the problem lies not with an airtight inner cap of your Phileas, but rather with a blocked breather hole in the outer cap. (I don't know whether the Phileas has something like this; the Carrera doesn't, the only vent is where the clip leaves the cap, i.e. in a spot that's sealed off by the inner cap: not very clever.) I'd first check whether there is such a breather hole and whether it's clear or blocked, before fiddling with the inner cap.

[Dr.Midnight]

Wow. Ultrasound bath? Fortunately, I do have access to one. I'll give it a shot!