Checking the pH of inks

[ImolaS3]

"]I looked up the MSDS on the highly promoted Koh-I-Noor Rapido-Eze Pen Cleaner which I posted about here[/url]. They reported a pH of 11.1, and on the bottle it says to use full strength for dried, clogged pens. So again rather than assuming it is perfectly safe to use on all pens and all inks, I questioned that. I'm not saying they are wrong, but it is amazing what you can turn up when you question fundamental assumptions. Questioning and researching tap, bottled, Brita type filter purity claims are what had me install a reverse osmosis + 4 more stages of filtration/activated charcoal in my home drinking water supply.

Be careful. In my experience, many people seem to consider that visiting a few web sites is 'research' of the literature. The internet is full of opinions, unsubstantiated 'facts', half truths and outright lies. Very little is peer reviewed or verified in any way at all and much is the work of a single mind in isolation or simply copied from other sites.

 

You say in your posts that you 'research' things in detail, but if that research is through web pages, then you are in danger of remaining as ill informed as at the start.

 

I say this as one paid by an employer (a university) to conduct scientific research as my day job and who has to repeatedly stop students from simply visiting wikipedia and assuming what is written there is true or that if several web pages say the same thing, then of course it is verified and true (not copied from one to another of course)

[pamsc]

I was hoping this thread would give me an easy answer on how to check pH for a different task--checking how much vinegar I have to add to a relish I am canning so that it is safe to process in a boiling water bath. I need to be sure that the pH is under 4.5. Would you trust litmust paper with a 3-6 range to be accurate to .2 or .3?

[tfwall]

I was hoping this thread would give me an easy answer on how to check pH for a different task--checking how much vinegar I have to add to a relish I am canning so that it is safe to process in a boiling water bath. I need to be sure that the pH is under 4.5. Would you trust litmust paper with a 3-6 range to be accurate to .2 or .3?

 

Yes, if you have specific test paper for pH range 3-6, I'd trust it to be accurate to within 0.3 pH units.

[Trebster]

"]I looked up the MSDS on the highly promoted Koh-I-Noor Rapido-Eze Pen Cleaner which I posted about here[/url]. They reported a pH of 11.1, and on the bottle it says to use full strength for dried, clogged pens. So again rather than assuming it is perfectly safe to use on all pens and all inks, I questioned that. I'm not saying they are wrong, but it is amazing what you can turn up when you question fundamental assumptions. Questioning and researching tap, bottled, Brita type filter purity claims are what had me install a reverse osmosis + 4 more stages of filtration/activated charcoal in my home drinking water supply.

Be careful. In my experience, many people seem to consider that visiting a few web sites is 'research' of the literature. The internet is full of opinions, unsubstantiated 'facts', half truths and outright lies. Very little is peer reviewed or verified in any way at all and much is the work of a single mind in isolation or simply copied from other sites.

 

You say in your posts that you 'research' things in detail, but if that research is through web pages, then you are in danger of remaining as ill informed as at the start.

 

I say this as one paid by an employer (a university) to conduct scientific research as my day job and who has to repeatedly stop students from simply visiting wikipedia and assuming what is written there is true or that if several web pages say the same thing, then of course it is verified and true (not copied from one to another of course)

 

+1 to this.

 

A high or low pH is just a number and means nothing at all as regards the alleged safety of an ink. That a high or low pH ink "could" damage a pen is very different than does damage a pen. When physical examples of damage directly and positively attributable to an ink's pH are presented - examples that can be verified and duplicated - then discussion of pH is on the radar. No evidence, no argument.

[Pulsewidth]

As soap is both slippery and alkaline, could it be that the uber-smooth Sailor and Iroshizuku inks gain their slickness by being alkaline? I wonder what pH Aurora Black has (isn't that the ink often called "The Smoothest"?).

 

Alkalis feel slippery because they react with the fats in your skin to make soap. They don't affect paper in the same way.

[Lloyd]

Can you report the pH of Platinum BlueBlack?

[JDR]

From a purely selfish perspective, I would be very interested in the pH for J. Herbin Perle Noir and PrivateReserve Midnight Blues. I was under the impression that all Herbin inks were pH neutral, but obviously that is incorrect.

Edited October 25, 2010 by JDR

[SamCapote]

Can you report the pH of Platinum BlueBlack?

 

Coming. I'm doing the Nano/permanent/BSB/BS-Cranberry at the end in case they explode the probe and I have to buy a new one.

 

Added the J. Herbin Perle Noir and PR Midnight Blue to the list.

[corniche]

"]I looked up the MSDS on the highly promoted Koh-I-Noor Rapido-Eze Pen Cleaner which I posted about here[/url]. They reported a pH of 11.1, and on the bottle it says to use full strength for dried, clogged pens. So again rather than assuming it is perfectly safe to use on all pens and all inks, I questioned that. I'm not saying they are wrong, but it is amazing what you can turn up when you question fundamental assumptions. Questioning and researching tap, bottled, Brita type filter purity claims are what had me install a reverse osmosis + 4 more stages of filtration/activated charcoal in my home drinking water supply.

 

 

Hello Sam,

 

ONE WORD OF CAUTION!! I haven't read through this entire thread, so maybe someone before me pointed this out, although I didn't see it. Koh-I-Nor Rapido-Eze pen cleaner is NOT designed for fountain pens- it is designed for all metal technical pens that use acrylic or shellac-based pigmented inks- NOT water miscible aniline dye based inks like we use. I'm the son of a civil engineer who grew up around all that type of stuff. I would contact the company first- it might be safe for fountain pens, but I would check that out first.

 

Like I said, I haven't read this entire thread, I don't have that kind of stamina anymore; however, the product you're discussing stood out like a sore thumb to me, so I'd thought I'd give a quick holler. Please disregard if my post is irrelevant to the thread- maybe I missed something. But I wanted to give you a "heads-up" just in case.

 

All the best,

 

Sean

 

 

* Edit: fixed typos.

Edited October 26, 2010 by S. P. Colfer

[Possum Hill]

"]I looked up the MSDS on the highly promoted Koh-I-Noor Rapido-Eze Pen Cleaner which I posted about here[/url]. They reported a pH of 11.1, and on the bottle it says to use full strength for dried, clogged pens. So again rather than assuming it is perfectly safe to use on all pens and all inks, I questioned that. I'm not saying they are wrong, but it is amazing what you can turn up when you question fundamental assumptions. Questioning and researching tap, bottled, Brita type filter purity claims are what had me install a reverse osmosis + 4 more stages of filtration/activated charcoal in my home drinking water supply.

 

 

Hello Sam,

 

ONE WORD OF CAUTION!! I haven't read through this entire thread, so maybe someone before me pointed this out, although I didn't see it. Koh-I-Nor Rapido-Eze pen cleaner is NOT designed for fountain pens- it is designed for all metal technical pens that use acrylic or shellac-based pigmented inks- NOT water miscible aniline dye based inks like we use. I'm the son of a civil engineer who grew up around all that type of stuff. I would contact the company first- it might be safe for fountain pens, but I would check that out first.

 

Like I said, I haven't read this entire thread, I don't have that kind of stamina anymore; however, the product you're discussing stood out like a sore thumb to me, so I'd thought I'd give a quick holler. Please disregard if my post is irrelevant to the thread- maybe I missed something. But I wanted to give you a "heads-up" just in case.

 

All the best,

 

Sean

 

 

* Edit: fixed typos.

IIRC, one or more of the accomplished pen techs here has posted that he uses Rapido-Eze, but sometimes things work better when used by people who are good at what they do. I think perhaps it was used when other methods hadn't worked. YMMV.

[SamCapote]

"]I looked up the MSDS on the highly promoted Koh-I-Noor Rapido-Eze Pen Cleaner which I posted about here[/url]. They reported a pH of 11.1, and on the bottle it says to use full strength for dried, clogged pens. So again rather than assuming it is perfectly safe to use on all pens and all inks, I questioned that. I'm not saying they are wrong, but it is amazing what you can turn up when you question fundamental assumptions. Questioning and researching tap, bottled, Brita type filter purity claims are what had me install a reverse osmosis + 4 more stages of filtration/activated charcoal in my home drinking water supply.

 

 

Hello Sam,

 

ONE WORD OF CAUTION!! I haven't read through this entire thread, so maybe someone before me pointed this out, although I didn't see it. Koh-I-Nor Rapido-Eze pen cleaner is NOT designed for fountain pens- it is designed for all metal technical pens that use acrylic or shellac-based pigmented inks- NOT water miscible aniline dye based inks like we use. I'm the son of a civil engineer who grew up around all that type of stuff. I would contact the company first- it might be safe for fountain pens, but I would check that out first.

 

Like I said, I haven't read this entire thread, I don't have that kind of stamina anymore; however, the product you're discussing stood out like a sore thumb to me, so I'd thought I'd give a quick holler. Please disregard if my post is irrelevant to the thread- maybe I missed something. But I wanted to give you a "heads-up" just in case.

 

All the best,

 

Sean

 

 

* Edit: fixed typos.

IIRC, one or more of the accomplished pen techs here has posted that he uses Rapido-Eze, but sometimes things work better when used by people who are good at what they do. I think perhaps it was used when other methods hadn't worked. YMMV.

 

Sean, and Possum Hill, thanks for your thoughtful feedback. It is always appreciated!

 

I first heard of Koh-I-Nor's Rapido-Eze from Jeff Kraz, who is highly regarded, in this thread post. There is a little more information in subsequent posts there.

 

In my true, nerdy, anal, obsessive-compulsive, wonderful manner which I love about myself, I began checking it out at the source and posted information in this thread that I found out. In particular, I spoke with the technical advisor at Chartpak who bought the brand, and does the formula mixing herself. She and others pen experts (I don't want to drop their names without their permission) have said it is completely safe for all fountain pen components. I tested it on all these by soaking the feed/nib section for at least an hour because I both wanted to make sure it was safe, and to see if it cleaned out additional ink that I assumed had been thoroughly rinsed by my regular flushing procedures. It did release more ink in some pens that I was absolutely sure were flushed clean. I never let ink dry in my pens.

 

I don't think most pens properly rinsed after using always require it, but I have not had any problems using it on Lamy Safari, Pelikan M200, M400 (white and brown tortoise) M800, Nakaya Aka Tamenuri (with the urushi lacquer), MB-146/149, MB-Noblesse Oblige, Sheaffer Prelude, Waterman Phileas, Parker Duofold (solid black model, and White & black drizzle), Sailor Classic, Levenger True Writer. I don't have any old/vintage pens, so I cannot make any recommendations about using it with them.

[SamCapote]

Just wanted to give a quick update. I'm going through many inks of my various inventory and making nice progress, but taking my time and double checking before posting them.

 

I also had a nice series of chats with Greg Clark who did the last Pen Sampler Book, his purpose for checking the pH, and about a number of articles he had published. Turns out the reason his pH readings only listed one decimal point was because this was the under $50 tester he used, and it only reports one decimal point.

[dizzypen]

Any update? I'm very interested to know the results!

[SamCapote]

Any update? I'm very interested to know the results!

 

Dizzy, I put this on temporary hold because I don't want to cross contaminate one ink with another, and it's almost impossible to completely clean the end of the pH meter and the small shotglass I use for testing. I'm almost done figuring out which Biocide & dose I need, and one of my steps in doing the pH testing is to both add the Biocide to the ink after I test the pH, but also to clean/rinse the pH meter and testing shotglass when done, then disinfect them both in the Sporicidin Solution. I didn't want to take a chance on losing a bunch of ink just so I can get the pH of them. I also need to take special cleaning steps with the Sailor Nano Pigmented ink, and the staining Baystate Blue....and you have to check the calibration in between each ink....so it takes quite a while to do it in the "anal-obsessive" manner I do testing like this.

[SamCapote]

I got a new pH meter and just added the new Noodler's Liberty's Elysium Blue, R&K Alt-Goldgrϋn, MB Hitchcock Red, Visconti Purple, & JB Pen Flush ink below. Note: New meter readings marked by pH**

 

• Montegrappa Bordeaux (42ml) - 2.49 pH
• Household White Vinegar - 2.50 pH
  
• Waterman Florida Blue (50ml) - 3.39 pH
• DeAtramentis Pinot Noir (35ml-round bottle) - 3.49 pH
• Parker Penman Sapphire Blue (50ml) - 3.65 pH
• Herbin Eclat de Saphir Blue (30ml) - 4.07 pH
• Visconti Turquoise Blue (50ml plastic) - 4.21 pH
• Aurora Black (45ml) - 4.35 pH
• Visconti Purple (40ml) - 4.55 pH**
  
• Diamine Imperial Blue (30ml) - 4.90 pH
• Montblanc Racing Green (50ml) - 5.73 pH
• Montblanc Hitchcock Red (30ml) - 6.36 pH**
  
• Rohrer & Klingner Alt-Goldgrϋn (50ml) - 6.55 pH**
  
• Noodler's FPN Dumas Tulipe Noire (90ml) - 7.57 pH
• My Household Tap Water - 7.71 pH
• Sheaffer Skrip Red (Slovenia-50ml) - 7.82 pH
  
• Pelikan (4001) Brilliant Black (30ml) - 7.96 pH
• Noodler's Liberty's Elysium Blue (90ml) - 8.09 pH**
  
• Iroshizuku Kon Peki Blue (50ml) - 9.54 pH
• Iroshizuku Tsutsuji Red (50ml) - 9.83 pH
• Sailor Kobe 'Black Dong' (50ml) - 10.35 pH
• JB's Perfect Pen Flush (90ml) - 11.13 pH**
  
• Household Cleaning Ammonia - 11.51 pH

 

 

 

 

 

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Edited May 29, 2012 by SamCapote

[Lloyd]

Have you duplicated any of your prior measurements to assess the earlier's accuracy?

[SamCapote]

Have you duplicated any of your prior measurements to assess the earlier's accuracy?

 

No, but that's a good idea. Thanks for the suggestion, and will do some of them and report new readings next to previous Oakton pH Testr-20 device.

[WirsPlm]

Curious to see more pH measurements. Any updates?

[anton1978]

greate post!

[bleair]

This is a great post... especially for me where I so want to understand all the details.. and well, just "science".. So very cool. Thank you for doing the work and posting!

 

For the chemistry experts, I could be way off on this crazy idea, but do acids vary in how "strong" or reactive they are? That is, given that I have two different 1ml quantities of inks, both with pH 4 (same number of H+ ions floating about, right?) Could one of these inks be a solution such that it would be less enthusiastic for reacting with my pen? It was already mentioned how the atmosphere can easily exchange CO2. Are some acids more energetic in how they ionize and keep ionizing with my pen's internals, or are all acids of the same pH equally dangerous?