Parker 51 vs Parker 61

[MancFrank]

I was thinking the same, Mitto.

 

I'm actually looking for an un - dinged 51 Insignia barrel, too - but not at that price!

 

Regards,

 

Frank

[mitto]

  On 3/7/2016 at 4:00 PM, MancFrank said:

I was thinking the same, Mitto.

 

I'm actually looking for an un - dinged 51 Insignia barrel, too - but not at that price!

 

Regards,

 

Frank

I think I was lucky to have got this pristine 51 signet on the eve of new year for just $60.00.

 

https://www.fountainpennetwork.com/forum/topic/302092-as-if-it-just-came-out-of-the-factory/?do=findComment&comment=3530538

Edited March 7, 2016 by mitto

[mitto]

  On 3/7/2016 at 4:00 PM, MancFrank said:

I was thinking the same, Mitto.

 

I'm actually looking for an un - dinged 51 Insignia barrel, too - but not at that price!

 

Regards,

 

Frank

 

Frank, those two small dings in the end of your 51 signet/insignia barrel are nothing to worry about.

[MancFrank]

Yeah, I know it's no biggie really, but I know they're there - if that makes sense!

 

It ended up costing me £40 (just under sixty bucks, at current rates) plus delivery after a wee bit of haggling over the dings. It also came with an original 61 case, outer & instructions which was one of the primary motivations for me, anyhow. I think your deal still beats mine, though - particularly if the $60 included the other 51s, too!

 

I dunno - it's a nice enough pen, an' all, although I can't help but think that a quick 'flip' would probably release funds for two (or more) 61s. I think I mentioned elsewhere that a really beat up Insignia / Signet fetched about £100 the other week, so....

 

Also, I've just realised that a barrel swap wouldn't be feasible - presumably, it'd still have the 61 - esque squared off end. Wake up, Frank...

 

Regards,

 

Frank

Edited March 7, 2016 by MancFrank

[brownargus]

  On 3/6/2016 at 10:25 PM, lyonlover said:

That's quite interesting. I wonder why Parker didn't change the plastic type in the 61 throughout production, especially considering how expensive it was back then. I think I'll pass on the 61 then. I see you have a Waterman Carene in your tag. How does the Carene compare to the Parker 51 in terms of balance/durability/build quality/flow and skipping/etc.?

 

Sorry about your 61

I'm very happy with both my Carenes. The pen is somewhat heavier than the 51 but not unduly so and is really well balanced whether posted or not. It is very comfortable to hold and I now use it in preference more or less every day. The 51 nib is a bit smoother and the fine nib produces a finer line than the fine Carene. Having said that I wouldn't want to be without either pen.

[lyonlover]

  On 3/7/2016 at 9:49 PM, brownargus said:

I'm very happy with both my Carenes. The pen is somewhat heavier than the 51 but not unduly so and is really well balanced whether posted or not. It is very comfortable to hold and I now use it in preference more or less every day. The 51 nib is a bit smoother and the fine nib produces a finer line than the fine Carene. Having said that I wouldn't want to be without either pen.

Thanks brownargus. I'm looking for a (slightly) heavier pen with a sleek tapered design, but I don't know where to find a P51 Flighter, so the Carene fits the bill.

 

But back to the P61... I did more research and found that the MK 3 Parker 51 is made of polystyrene and not acrylic. This means the Argentinian Parker 61 may be a Mark 3 Parker 51 with two dots indeed.

 

I'm really getting into this

[soapytwist]

Your musings have made sense of my experience.

My first ever fountain pen was a Mk3 51 (back in the mid eighties at the tender age of 15). In the ensuing years I came across LOTS of 51s and nothing compared to the first in terms of smoothness. I eventually lost that first pen and ended up selling almost all of my 51s (must have had 10-15), keeping only my grandfather's set and a burgundy aerometric that was smooth for my hand.

Spool forward to January this year and the burgundy one had ended up in my pen pot at work. The lady who works next to me borrowed it, took a shine to it and bought it from me, so I went looking for a replacement. I ended up with a Mk3 along with a Vacumatic and another two aerometrics. None of them compared to the Mk3 in terms of nib smoothness, not even the burgundy one I'd kept. So I've now got two Mk3s (one steel-capped for everyday and a mint RG capped one for 'best') and both of them are superbly smooth - the electro-polishing of the 61 nibs must also have been used on these.

I consider them to be the zenith of Parker's production - I wouldn't be parted from them!

[pajaro]

  On 3/8/2016 at 5:52 PM, soapytwist said:

Your musings have made sense of my experience.

My first ever fountain pen was a Mk3 51 (back in the mid eighties at the tender age of 15). In the ensuing years I came across LOTS of 51s and nothing compared to the first in terms of smoothness. I eventually lost that first pen and ended up selling almost all of my 51s (must have had 10-15), keeping only my grandfather's set and a burgundy aerometric that was smooth for my hand.

Spool forward to January this year and the burgundy one had ended up in my pen pot at work. The lady who works next to me borrowed it, took a shine to it and bought it from me, so I went looking for a replacement. I ended up with a Mk3 along with a Vacumatic and another two aerometrics. None of them compared to the Mk3 in terms of nib smoothness, not even the burgundy one I'd kept. So I've now got two Mk3s (one steel-capped for everyday and a mint RG capped one for 'best') and both of them are superbly smooth - the electro-polishing of the 61 nibs must also have been used on these.

I consider them to be the zenith of Parker's production - I wouldn't be parted from them!

I think that's a good assessment.

[brownargus]

  On 3/8/2016 at 12:33 AM, lyonlover said:

I did more research and found that the MK 3 Parker 51 is made of polystyrene and not acrylic.

Thanks Lyonlover, that would explain why my MkIII P51 feels much less substantial than the Mk1 I have although it writes well and feels reasonably well balanced especially when posted. It just doesn't feel to be of the same quality as the MkI.

[lyonlover]

According to this TV commercial, the nib point was already electropolished since at least the fifties, about a decade before the Mark II Parker 51 rolled in. This commercial was made in 1954, and the Parker 61 wasn't out until two years later.

[richardandtracy]

I wonder if Parker didn't learn lessons on how to do electropolishing between its first introduction and later production on the P61.

 

They do seem to have researched, learnt and developed as time went on, pretty much up to the early 1980's when they seem to have given up on innovation. It is a shame.

 

Regards,

 

Richard.

[ps4ever]

  On 3/6/2016 at 8:51 PM, lyonlover said:

I'm looking into buying my own Parker 61 flighter. Is it a good pen for long-term usage (like decades)? I read about how the 61 has brittle plastic that can crack over time. Is it that bad? It's a beautiful pen.

The 61, as has been reported so often, was made with injection-molded polystyrene, rather than Lucite, the acrylic plastic that was used in the great 51. It is a thinner plastic, and is therefore more susceptible to breakage. The breakage will typically occur if the pen is dropped, like on concrete, or if you handle it roughly (quite roughly). It might also break if you are trying to remove the hood in order to disassemble the pen. Leaving it in a hot car or under similar auspices is particularly not recommended. But let us put this into context: it is very bad to drop any pen, and you are likely to disfigure the pen heartbreakingly, even if you do not crack the plastic etc., or if it doesn't land on the nib, possibly ruining it. So just do not drop it. Be careful and mentally prepared not to drop it. Don't leave any pen in a hot place or direct sunlight. As for cracking the hood in disassembly, there is little reason ever to disassemble 51's and 61's, despite what some 51 repair people would lead you to believe. Most (aerometric) 51's can be more than adequately cleaned just by flushing. The ply glass reservoir rarely deteriorates and the nib, feed, and collector are almost impossible to clog such that they cannot be flushed with just plain cold water. The same is true for the 61. If it is clogged you just soak the capillary cell until you liquefy any dried ink, then blow It out of the pen, and the capillary cell, feed, and collector should be quite clean and operable. So, the brittleness of the plastic is an issue to be aware of, but it is a pitfall that can easily be avoided by being careful with the pen and not disassembling it for absolutely no good reason.

[ps4ever]

  On 3/7/2016 at 1:34 AM, MancFrank said:

As a newbie, I don't have anywhere near as much user experience as most here, but of the nine 61s I have, I've written with two (MK I - accountant nib & MK II - medium nib) and experienced no problems whatsoever. Both write with what, to me at least, seems a very pleasing wet (yet not overly so) nib.

 

Also, I haven't experienced any difficulty in flushing, which seems to be a commonly reported issue for some (none of my pens have cracking / damage, either).

 

Currently, I only have the one 51 (an Insignia - medium nib) and it certainly doesn't write any better than my 61s. Not worse, either - but no better.

 

Maybe I'm lucky, maybe I'm biased - or maybe, I simply don't know any better - but that's my take.

 

Yes, I love my sleek, sexy 61s.

 

Regards,

Frank

 

 

I don't have a whole collection of 61's, but the one I do have has never given me an ounce of problems, and is always with me. It has never clogged, it has never cracked, the arrow has not yet fallen out or threatened to. I am not a pen collector, but I have a small number of vintage Parker and Sheaffer pens. None of them write as well as the 61. I have never written with a pen that writes as smoothly. And my 61 only feathers when the paper is ultra pourous, so I am able to write with no feathering on almost any cheap legal pad or notebook paper and produce beautiful script. The 61 fills with no mess, as it was designed to do, so it is easy to keep it always filled and ready to go. The 61 has a large capacity, so it holds about 2 cubic centimeters of ink, unlike the Snorkel which typically holds about .8 cc's. That means a write out of around 20-21 legal size pages. Not bad at all, versus the Snorkel's seven or eight pages. Since the 61 is so easy to fill, there is never much need to write out all those 21 pages, either, so it never is in danger of running out of ink, which in turn also means that it is not likely to clog up because of dried ink in the capillary cell, feed, and collector.

Edited April 30, 2016 by ps4ever

[richardandtracy]

I have had problems with a P61.

My late mother gave me one in 1978, a c/c, within 3 weeks the arrow fell out. In 2004 or maybe a little later, the barrel cracked at the connector thread. In the mean time it had effectively been my only pen used for up to 20 pages a day, an had also been everywhere with me - including a 2 month motorcycle/tent trip across Canada & Alaska. After making a barrel & connector, in 2007 I discovered that the tip of the section had dropped off because the hood was full of microcracks which had penetrated the hood. Making where my fingers held the pen effectively porous. That is when I gave up on it. So, I got at least 25 years life out of one P61. It had problems that a P51 of the same age would not have, but it lasted me around 1/3 of a lifetime. That is adequate.

The colour: Burgundy, which seems to be more susceptible than the other colours.

 

The nib is now in a P51 and it's the best P51 I have due to that nib. Took a bit of a time with a file to make it fit, but the nib is brilliant.

 

Regards

 

Richard.

[ps4ever]

I love my 61 pen, and it is my daily use pen. But it will last a limited amount of time. That may be many years if it is not dropped, but it will not last forever. I broke a 61 myself trying to get the shell off; I bought another one off Ebay that had a cracked shell. The one I am using now is a fairly wet writing fine. It was a NOS pen, but it already has what I think are microcracks on the shell. That is after only a few months of use. They are not leaking, and should not leak provided I do not put pressure on the shell or drop it. Basically, I love the 61, but I would not recommend it over a 51 by any means. I have tried and failed many times to put my 61 away and go with, alternately, a 51, a Vac, a and a Snorkel, as my primary pen. But the 61 always comes back out. 61's are nice, but fragile and generally dry writers. They will fall apart in time, and can easily be broken long before that.

[mitto]

+1

[pajaro]

I have been wondering when my 61 will crack up. A UK 61, capillary filler, medium or so nib and rolled gold cap, it fills and writes perfectly, even if filling takes a while. I think, though, that if the pen lasts 25 years it will outlive me. Twenty-five years is longer than I ever expected to get out of any pen, based on the life of the pens I used in school. The 51s, this 61 and the few Montblancs and Pelikans I have are also performing better than my early expectations. This black 61 is doing fine, as is my first 51 after forty-six years. Good pens last. Frankly, the 61 is beautifully smooth, and my forst 51 is also beautifully smooth, and I see and feel little or no difference between them as writers. Smoothed by years of writing, they are equally wonderful to write with.

 

All this 51 vs. 61 and so forth is a load of rubbish, really. If you buy a great pen and take reasonable care with it, it will write wonderfully. Both 51 and 61 are wonderful pens.

[pjo]

I have a stainless steel Parker 61 which was used all day every day from the mid 1960's through to the late 1980's. It was perfect in every way, and had a very hard life in every respect. I have never had any problems with the capillary filling system.

I recently re-inked it (without even flushing it) and is is as good as new! The only problem I had was that I had lost the arrow on the hood due to the very rough handling.

I have since bough several other Parker 61's and found them as good as my original one, so personally I think these are great pens. (All were made in UK),

[Hanamizu]

I have been lucky enough to acquire a number of "51"s and 61s. The "51"s are essentially bullet-proof and I have found a couple that are ready to write after months of disuse. But I find I'm using the 61s almost exclusively. It might be their good looks (I am a shallow person) or it might be that their nibs are a nickel's worth smoother, but I find I are drawn to them more than the good old reliable "51".

[pajaro]

The 61 is a generation newer. It would be odd if there had been no advancement. The look is newer. New fillers. New ideas. I prefer 51s, including the one that didn't come with the sac it came with.