fountain pen taboos - don't enter if you're easily offended

[aussielondon]

  On 9/9/2014 at 4:55 AM, GeneralSynopsis said:

 

... and Lamy pens are put together by slave labour I suppose...

 

I've seen lots of people on FPN criticising Chinese manufacturers for supposed poor conditions and pay for their workers, now we are going to criticise German manufacturers for giving their workers what we would like for ourselves in terms of pay and conditions, sometimes you just cannot please people.

 

If you don't like the product or the price don't buy it.

The world is a cruel place full stop.

Yes I have heard of the workers in Cambodia that are chained the machines to make clothing and such and are fed in dog bowls, but then this is something society will never get rid of.

At the end of the day people repressed like this need revolution or to go out in a blaze of glory attacking the people that enslave them before they would then clearly be put to death for doing so.

If that were me that's what I would do, I would never live in slavery, I would rather die and take down the enslaver with me.

But that's a whole other issue that is both political and emotionally deep.

[legume]

These opinions are going to come off like I'm extremely passionate about them, but really it's more like I dislike this aspect of whatever in this context and while my opinions are fairly concrete, in the grand scheme of things my feelings are lukewarm and whatever I was talking about isn't really a significant aspect of my life. But because I'm sure of my opinions and I want to emphasize certain things, everything comes out in absolutes and I'd rather not write out what I just did in every other sentence. It would just sound so snobby...^{and yet I just did it}

 

• Stop trying to flex every nib. Seriously, what are you doing?

When did this become a universally desirable thing? Flex pens have always been a subset everyone explored eventually but now people are judging the quality of their nibs by how flexible it is? It seems like especially new users are making up a huge part of this everything has to flex! cult. It doesn't help that every review on Goulet Pens or FP Geeks has a portion where they test out how flexible the nib is like apparently it's a good thing.

 

Don't get me wrong, I came over to fountain pens from dip pens and I love flex, but I don't pick up a fountain pen expecting it to do the same thing. No fountain pen flex nib will ever match up to a simple steel dip pen.

 

It irritates me when people expect the Pilot Falcon to flex. No. It's not made for that and DO NOT expect it to be capable to producing Spencerian, let alone Copperplate. I think the nibmeisters out there that advertise their Spencerian Approximation grinds are misleading at best and dishonest at worst. Sure there's lip service as to the difficulty in using those nibs, but even that's to make overcoming that difficulty a goal. Those nibs are structurally unsound and if they can't even create the subtle swells of Spencerian, how in the world are they going to produce Copperplate letters? Also, too many people don't seem to understand that the fineness of the hairline is far more important than how much a nib can flex. A fountain pen's iridium tipped nib will never produce true hairlines.

 

People watch that video of that Falcon that went viral and get very unreasonable expectations from seeing the penman's skill. Then people in the fountain pen community itself can't correct their misconceptions because they have them too. I'm happy for Pilot's sales, but not the state of the fountain pen community if this kind of misinformation and false hope is allowed to run free.

 

Side note: I am so excited for the Desiderata Flex Pen (in this I really am pumped up IRL). Finally a fountain pen that can take a steel dip pen AND has a feed that can keep up? It's what we hoped the Ackerman Pump Pen would be except it had to be pumped (well duh, but it's still a bad system) and couldn't keep up with the flow. What we hoped the Ahab would be except it had to be tinkered with endlessly and also couldn't keep up with the flow. It's what every vintage flex pen hoped it would be, but couldn't be from the fact that they had the limitations of a fountain pen nib. Early reviews have been promising, so hopefully it's not another disappointment.

 

• I don't like overly smooth nibs.

When did smoothness become universally desirable? It's even part of the fountain pen recruitment speech now. Oh it's so much smoother than any other kind of pen out there! No, it's not. And why do you say that like it's a good thing? The sales pitch used to be, the feedback allows you to be in touch with and feel the paper like no other pen. It's just a trend.

 

• I don't want to share my fountain pens with the world.

I know we're supposed to be penvangelizing to spread the word and prevent the extinction of fountain pens, but I just... don't want to talk about it. Except with internet people, of course. It's not like you guys know me in real life. I don't get excited if someone notices me using a fountain pen and want to start spouting off about its history and how it writes and how it's so superior or whatever. In fact, I really don't like it when it's noticed. To the point that I will avoid using pens in front of people I know. Around strangers in a library or cafe, whatever, I can just put on my don't talk to me face. But I don't want to be associated with the status symbol fountain pens have become; the snobs that deliberately wave around those oversize, overpriced phallic pens, trying to make sure everyone sees them and thinking what they paid makes them superior; and those special snowflakes who spread misinformation about how their pens are going to adapt to them or other similarly absurd factoids.

 

Fountain pens are not an identity. They're not even the main focus of my stationery hobby. I have plenty of other hobbies, and let's be honest this one is much more frivolous than we like to admit.

Edited September 19, 2014 by legume

[Bill Broome]

I wonder if what people really mean when they talk about flex most of the time, may better be described as springiness? A springy nib, in one sense, flexes, but it really only bends. There is no appreciable tine separation.

 

There is also ubiquitous talk about line variation. Maybe that is what so many people seem to want in their handwriting. I am content for people to pursue whatever they like, but I think stubs and cursive nibs are where line variation is to be found, rather than "flexy" fountain pen nibs.

Edited September 19, 2014 by Bill Broome

[HamFist]

"Nice" pens, I paid a bunch for my pelikan m800 and I am sure as hell going to get my money's worth and not sit around at home "polishing my pencil". It gets used A LOT. Take it to school to work it is covered in scratches and banged up but it is a great pen and I would rather use it than "appreciate" it.

Real men use their fountain pens, don't be a pen princess.

[dragos.mocanu]

  On 9/19/2014 at 2:40 PM, HamFist said:

"Nice" pens, I paid a bunch for my pelikan m800 and I am sure as hell going to get my money's worth and not sit around at home "polishing my pencil". It gets used A LOT. Take it to school to work it is covered in scratches and banged up but it is a great pen and I would rather use it than "appreciate" it.

Real men use their fountain pens, don't be a pen princess.

 

http://i.imgur.com/lNEg8.gif

 

That and, the Noodler's flex pen (any) is the best modern fountain pen initiative! Don't have ink and the finest idea of your life just popped up in your head? Just put some dirt in a glass of water, stir it, fill your Noodler's pen and write on..instant El Lawrence! I seriously love murky/swampy inks!

 

 

  On 9/19/2014 at 2:02 PM, Bill Broome said:

I wonder if what people really mean when they talk about flex most of the time, may better be described as springiness? A springy nib, in one sense, flexes, but it really only bends. There is no appreciable tine separation.

 

There is also ubiquitous talk about line variation. Maybe that is what so many people seem to want in their handwriting. I am content for people to pursue whatever they like, but I think stubs and cursive nibs are where line variation is to be found, rather than "flexy" fountain pen nibs.

 

Well, I like a nib that springs simply for the feeling it gives on paper (compared to a so called "nail") and not necessarily for the line variation it gives. And consider this, a flexible nib also really only bends, be it a semiflex or a superflex wet noodle...it's just a matter of perspective!

Edited September 19, 2014 by dragos.mocanu

[Brian K]

  On 9/19/2014 at 2:40 PM, HamFist said:

"Nice" pens, I paid a bunch for my pelikan m800 and I am sure as hell going to get my money's worth and not sit around at home "polishing my pencil". It gets used A LOT. Take it to school to work it is covered in scratches and banged up but it is a great pen and I would rather use it than "appreciate" it.

Real men use their fountain pens, don't be a pen princess.

 

Amen...too many people act as though every scatch or scuff is a tragedy of epic proportions. My 149 has been carried and used alot and it shows - as it should. Some day I may trade, sell or give it away but I ain't gonna baby it in the meantime.

Edited September 19, 2014 by Brian K

[dragos.mocanu]

  On 9/19/2014 at 6:03 AM, legume said:

 

These opinions are going to come off like I'm extremely passionate about them, but really it's more like I dislike this aspect of whatever in this context and while my opinions are fairly concrete, in the grand scheme of things my feelings are lukewarm and whatever I was talking about isn't really a significant aspect of my life. But because I'm sure of my opinions and I want to emphasize certain things, everything comes out in absolutes and I'd rather not write out what I just did in every other sentence. It would just sound so snobby...^{and yet I just did it}

 

• Stop trying to flex every nib. Seriously, what are you doing?

When did this become a universally desirable thing? Flex pens have always been a subset everyone explored eventually but now people are judging the quality of their nibs by how flexible it is? It seems like especially new users are making up a huge part of this everything has to flex! cult. It doesn't help that every review on Goulet Pens or FP Geeks has a portion where they test out how flexible the nib is like apparently it's a good thing.

 

Don't get me wrong, I came over to fountain pens from dip pens and I love flex, but I don't pick up a fountain pen expecting it to do the same thing. No fountain pen flex nib will ever match up to a simple steel dip pen.

 

It irritates me when people expect the Pilot Falcon to flex. No. It's not made for that and DO NOT expect it to be capable to producing Spencerian, let alone Copperplate. I think the nibmeisters out there that advertise their Spencerian Approximation grinds are misleading at best and dishonest at worst. Sure there's lip service as to the difficulty in using those nibs, but even that's to make overcoming that difficulty a goal. Those nibs are structurally unsound and if they can't even create the subtle swells of Spencerian, how in the world are they going to produce Copperplate letters? Also, too many people don't seem to understand that the fineness of the hairline is far more important than how much a nib can flex. A fountain pen's iridium tipped nib will never produce true hairlines.

 

People watch that video of that Falcon that went viral and get very unreasonable expectations from seeing the penman's skill. Then people in the fountain pen community itself can't correct their misconceptions because they have them too. I'm happy for Pilot's sales, but not the state of the fountain pen community if this kind of misinformation and false hope is allowed to run free.

 

Side note: I am so excited for the Desiderata Flex Pen (in this I really am pumped up IRL). Finally a fountain pen that can take a steel dip pen AND has a feed that can keep up? It's what we hoped the Ackerman Pump Pen would be except it had to be pumped (well duh, but it's still a bad system) and couldn't keep up with the flow. What we hoped the Ahab would be except it had to be tinkered with endlessly and also couldn't keep up with the flow. It's what every vintage flex pen hoped it would be, but couldn't be from the fact that they had the limitations of a fountain pen nib. Early reviews have been promising, so hopefully it's not another disappointment.

 

• I don't like overly smooth nibs.

When did smoothness become universally desirable? It's even part of the fountain pen recruitment speech now. Oh it's so much smoother than any other kind of pen out there! No, it's not. And why do you say that like it's a good thing? The sales pitch used to be, the feedback allows you to be in touch with and feel the paper like no other pen. It's just a trend.

 

• I don't want to share my fountain pens with the world.

I know we're supposed to be penvangelizing to spread the word and prevent the extinction of fountain pens, but I just... don't want to talk about it. Except with internet people, of course. It's not like you guys know me in real life. I don't get excited if someone notices me using a fountain pen and want to start spouting off about its history and how it writes and how it's so superior or whatever. In fact, I really don't like it when it's noticed. To the point that I will avoid using pens in front of people I know. Around strangers in a library or cafe, whatever, I can just put on my don't talk to me face. But I don't want to be associated with the status symbol fountain pens have become; the snobs that deliberately wave around those oversize, overpriced phallic pens, trying to make sure everyone sees them and thinking what they paid makes them superior; and those special snowflakes who spread misinformation about how their pens are going to adapt to them or other similarly absurd factoids.

 

Fountain pens are not an identity. They're not even the main focus of my stationery hobby. I have plenty of other hobbies, and let's be honest this one is much more frivolous than we like to admit.

 

 

This is like an excerpt from a Chuck Palahniuk novel, awesome!

[oshizemi]

I have recently received a sample of Tomoe River paper and I am unimpressed. Sure, it is smooth, but it is so thin it wrinkles easily under wet nibs and the crinkly sensation I get when writing on the back of the sheet is annoying. Not something I'd buy. Glad I was able to do a sample trade for it because I simply cannot understand the hype even after trying it. To each their own, and thanks goodness for the many options we have for papers.

 

Noodler's were among my first pens. Not bad if you know what you're getting yourself into. I was luckily enough fully informed thanks to FPN when I made my purchases, and of the ones I've sent as gifts I've always told them CALL ME if you have issues and we'll Skype session it out. There are many YouTube videos on them as well, but one really does have to be self motivated to learn how to adjust them to your liking. In this day and age of plug and play and instant out of the box gratification, I understand how Noodler's can be a bit of a disappointment.

 

I don't like inks that don't have at least a little water resistance to them. It could get humid, it could rain, I could cry, or spill a drink. Too many factors. I don't want to lose my grocery list to a glass of orange juice or a letter I send to a friend ruined on the way from the mailbox to house. You would think that more ink companies would offer water resistant or waterproof inks. I'd be all over them, rather than a mainly Noodler's user. Probably a niche thing again. I've got a bit of paranoia I guess after losing important belongings to Hurricane Katrina.

 

I like flex. It's teaching me how to be less heavy handed when I write to get thin even writing, and how and when to use pressure for line variation. Training me away from ballpoints... I find now I don't push hard enough with those when I use them to sign a receipt or fill out documents at my doctor's office.

 

I don't like how inconsistent converters can be. I'm starting to really get into eyedroppers. I also hate cartridges and proprietary anything. Limiting, expensive, annoying.

[aussielondon]

  On 9/19/2014 at 5:17 PM, oshizemi said:

I don't like how inconsistent converters can be. I'm starting to really get into eyedroppers. I also hate cartridges and proprietary anything. Limiting, expensive, annoying.

I have yet to try using my converter as I am still on the ink cartridge that came with my first fountain pen, and from what I have been reading on here I am up for alot of disappointment.

Are they really that bad?

[Kuscer]

  On 3/12/2010 at 2:31 PM, StyloBug33 said:

I think the Maki-e pens with pictures of dragons, etc. on them are a little over the top.

+1

[Kuscer]

  On 3/12/2010 at 4:24 PM, GirchyGirchy said:

I like this thread so far....

 

1) I'll never buy another Bexley. I've been unhappy with both the performance and with the service - I own four and each one has had/still has issues.

 

2) The Parker Sonnet is overpriced and poorly designed.

parkers are cheaply made

[Kuscer]

  On 3/12/2010 at 4:24 PM, GirchyGirchy said:

I like this thread so far....

 

1) I'll never buy another Bexley. I've been unhappy with both the performance and with the service - I own four and each one has had/still has issues.

 

2) The Parker Sonnet is overpriced and poorly designed.

Parker's are cheaply made

[jasonditz]

1. I'm never as happy with vacumetric pens as I think I'll be.

2. The cost and hassle of a jar of shellac to re-sac pens is not worth it when clear nail polish accomplishes the same thing.

3. My writing always looks way worse when I'm consciously trying to use a flex nib.

4. The cost and hassle of trying to buy/refill vintage Wearever cartridges is not worth it when Lamys are close enough to the same size to work.

[jasonditz]

Oh confession: I bought my first fountain pen by mistake, thinking it was the same thing as a rollerball.

[sharmon202]

  On 9/19/2014 at 6:01 PM, aussielondon said:

I have yet to try using my converter as I am still on the ink cartridge that came with my first fountain pen, and from what I have been reading on here I am up for alot of disappointment.

Are they really that bad?

No, some people are snobs about cartridges, I believe they have their place and purposes. Yes, per ml of ink they are pricier. Glad you are trying it first, then try the converter and make up your own mind. Read all opinion then decide on yours.

 

Love this thread.

[sharmon202]

  On 9/9/2014 at 2:09 AM, Kugelschreiber said:

 

The niche being people who need extra encouragement to use ballpoints and rollerballs.

 

I didn't actually mean that.

 

I happen to like the TWSBI logo even though it brings to mind those awful bio-hazard symbols.

LOL, I have always reacted that way to that symbol also.

[sharmon202]

  On 9/3/2014 at 4:28 PM, Garageboy said:

Fusion is high on the list of terrible Delta marketing (pens with removable good luck charms? Pens with a Driedel? )

 

 

+1 These - what pens were you referring to in your "overpriced old fountain pens" reference?

 

 

Let me add another - poor nib work - thanks for regrinding my pen, but how about realigning the nib before you do that? How about taking some extra time and polishing the tipping after the regrinding, and NOT make a mess around the tipping material. Give me a factory style finish, not just flat spot it at a particular angle...

Garage boy, thanks so much for the poor nib work learning's. Great feedback. Love this thread.

[sharmon202]

  On 8/13/2014 at 3:42 AM, amcityink said:

How is $50.00 a cheap pen? To some people, that's all they'll ever own.... Typical bushwa - elitist -nose in the air attitude - , reflecting price to quality and actual usability. The last I looked, nobody has every stood up and said I wrote a great script or book because of my expensive pen... sure you can be inspired buy your instrument... but it doesn't make you a better person or more creative because the brand name inflates the cost... but not necessarily the actual value. Pens aren't musical instruments.

 

In reality, a MB fountain pen should be more money than a Lamy allstar... But $780.00 more???? for resin? If you believe that I have a bridge to sell you. But to each his own... I have both. If you want a pen with diamonds and bells and whistles god bless... doesn't make you a better writer though. The notion that FP's is just a rich mans hobby kills me.

 

I don't think buying less expensive pens is "collecting" pens... they most likely get used more the the $500 pens.

 

Here's some reasons for buying less expensive pens as a Fountain pen enthusiast.... everyday bang around use... you don't want to lose a good $500 plus pen out and about.... or you just like the way they write!!!

 

I'm a FP ink fanatic... for each ink I buy, I buy a Lamy or Pilot for it. My inks get their own pens.

 

People just hate to admit, that a $50 Lamy filled with MB Toffee pretty much does the same job as a $800 MB filled with MB Toffee... on paper there's really not a $750 difference. I remember when MB fountain pens were less than $300.00 the only thing that has changed with the pen all these years later is just the price more than doubled... for the same exact Resin pen... you're actually paying for German employees with 8week vacations,&nice pension plans.

Amen, especially the last sentence. Great post, Thank You.

[sharmon202]

While I love these types of pens and the fp communities I do not understand why purchasing a pen, finding it does not write well out of the box is ok, normal, no big deal, just send it off to a nibmeister, etc. I spent a lot of money on a Pelican M200 which the seller did not want to deal with, finally did. Sent it back hardly better than before with replaced nib. And I am not supposed to feel, as I do, that I do not think I will ever give Pelikan my money again? Similar experience with Parsons Essential, cost more to send back than it cost to buy but I am supposed to do that? I am in for the long haul, maybe I will understand or accept when I have been in this longer.

 

Unbelievable price of some inks, I have not tried D' Ache and others of that price, probably will not. How high is this going to go you think? Iroshizuku is my max. unless I win the lottery and even then not sure I would support paying for a name so obviously just a brand cost.

[Rocket1]

I absolutely adore parker quink washable blue.