fountain pen taboos - don't enter if you're easily offended

[jamesh]

  On 3/13/2010 at 11:17 PM, Bronze said:

  On 3/13/2010 at 10:37 PM, jamesh said:

Something that bugs me is when someone takes note of a pen I'm using and comments or ask about them...they never want to listen to what I want to say. i.e. I was writing with a Parker Vacumatic one day and the guy next to me asked me about it. I got excited and started explaining about how old it was, what a date code is and the filling mechanism. I could tell he quickly lost interest. Oh, well.

 

 

 

- How interested would you be in his hobby about Persian rugs?

 

How quickly would you lose interest if he went on in great detail abut the various knitting techniques, regional patterns, provincial use of color, diverse wool qualities, the subtle nuance in feel, or their cultural connotations?

 

All because you noted he had a nice doormat.......

 

Actually, on this point, I would be most interested. But I do get where you are coming from. I would not begrudge him; however, it bugs me none the less.

[MIHCK]

This is a fascinating topic, as thirteen pages of responses in just one day would confirm. I look forward to reading more on this.

 

My two cents:

 

1) I see no attraction in fountain pens produced by companies that aren't primarily writing instrument manufacturers. If I wanted a gold and Chinese enamel cigarette lighter, I wouldn't buy one from Pelikan. If I wanted a lead crystal bibelot, I wouldn't look to Lamy. If I wanted a rear-engined sports car, I wouldn't shop Waterman. And so I think that companies that are best known for such items and offer fountain pens as a sideline can't produce as good a product, dollar for dollar, as firms that focus on writing instruments do.

 

2) Which doesn't let all penmakers off the hook. I'm sincerely happy for the people who enjoy their Montblancs and wish them uninterrupted satisfaction. But in my case, when the gold body separated from the rest of the nib as I was gently wiping the ink from my roughly 15-year-old 149 after a refilling, the company lost me as a customer permanently. (It was never my favorite pen anyway; that would be one of my Pelikans. But because I had it with me at the time, the 149 survived the time our house was burgled in 1990 and the thieves left most of my wife's jewelry but snatched all the fountain pens.)

 

3) On a related-to-fountain-pens note: based on the enthusiasm that Rhodia stationery generates in another FPN forum, I finally bought a pad, and I find the devoted following hard to understand. To me the paper feels slick and coated (my wife, not a fountain pen fanatic, thought so, too), reminiscent of the sort of paper early fax machines required. Nor am I particularly impressed by how it interacts with a wide range of inks and nibs, though I must admit that there is zero feathering. Still, I find using one of my fountain pens on a sheet of printer paper from my office a more satisfying writing experience than using Rhodia, though perhaps it'll grow on me.

[Parkermaniac]

  On 3/12/2010 at 11:47 PM, ttakacs said:

Fountain pen taboos?

 

1. Never use an open-nib pen to apply Preparation H. That is what hooded pens are for.

 

2. If you are in an English pub, do not let your pen out of your sight. It might wind up on the dart board.

 

3. Fountain pens are not can openers. There are some exceptions, however.

 

4. Do not use a fountain pen to write on a duck's back. It will feather badly.

 

:roflmho:

[bushido]

  On 3/14/2010 at 3:20 AM, MIHCK said:

 

 

3) On a related-to-fountain-pens note: based on the enthusiasm that Rhodia stationery generates in another FPN forum, I finally bought a pad, and I find the devoted following hard to understand. To me the paper feels slick and coated (my wife, not a fountain pen fanatic, thought so, too), reminiscent of the sort of paper early fax machines required. Nor am I particularly impressed by how it interacts with a wide range of inks and nibs, though I must admit that there is zero feathering. Still, I find using one of my fountain pens on a sheet of printer paper from my office a more satisfying writing experience than using Rhodia, though perhaps it'll grow on me.

 

on your last item, i still have the stationery set i purchased from barnes&noble and it's slick/coated like you described. the pen glided but the ink seemed to have a hard time penetrating the paper and produced thin lines even though i used a broad nib. i, too, find the copier paper a more pleasant experience. have you tried the 32 lb paper white against aurora black? you must.

[bluemagister]

  On 3/13/2010 at 1:13 AM, bushido said:

  On 3/13/2010 at 12:36 AM, bluemagister said:

I can't stand when retailers, especially eBay ones, sell pens and won't take them back if defective. I can't stand any pen from China or SE asia, not since I got burned on a Hero9001 and a Pilot Demonstrator steel nib (none of the markings were "Japan" and this pen was retail in Thailand). Buying pens like 616s means that you can get a few good pens for the price of one very good pen, but 40% of the pens are going to be trash and not even worth adjusting.

 

I LOATHE fat lines and B nibs and nibs that say "XF" and write a 1.0mm line. Is it so bad that my handwriting requires me to use an XF or F pen to be legible? You'd think I was committing a crime by the way US and European manufacturers insist on carrying their product lines in 60/30/9/1 B/M/F/XF ratios...

 

And, yes, gel pens DO write just as well as most fountain pens and with inks that are also permanent and pigmented. They're cheap, easy to use and the better brands are reliable. THAT'S why I need my FPs to not cost $500 and use $40 converters and ink that dissolves with fog from my exhale...

 

stop buying inferior pens and invest in a quality one. saves you tylenol.

 

I have several $150 pens that write very well, but I can't afford to keep buying them at that price point. I usually try to buy around the $30-40 range. I was looking into cheaper pens to take outside of the house and got burned and that is why I was ranting.

[bluemagister]

More things that are taboo to say here without a massive flood of fire and brimstone:

 

1. Rhodia is overrated, overpriced and the orange covers look like Harajuku fad trash. Where is a nice Rhodia notebook WITHOUT purple graph lines and WITH a nice, black, conservative cover?

 

2. J. Herbin inks are pretty, but basically are made of butterflies and dreams. A puff of wind or a light misting of dew is enough to make them run all over the place. Why can't J. Herbin put 330 years of experience into making inks that are 100% waterproof AND bright/wet/smooth?

 

3. Moleskines are a giant ripoff. The company makes them in China for pennies and sells them for dollars in the US where they're snatched up by the dozen...because of the name. The cheap paper can't even handle most FP inks! There are so many other good notebooks that outperform the Moleskine and yet you can always expect to pay $16 for mass-produced throwaway. Miquelrius, Kokuyo and other notebooks are hopefully going to overtake Moleskine in the future and maybe prices will become reasonable across the board.

 

4. Gold nibs do NOT mean quality. The tip material is what makes the pen write well. Just because your pen has a gold nib doesn't mean it's a good enough writer to charge OVER the retail in the Marketplace!

 

5. Not everyone here has a $4000/year budget for pen buying! When newbs ask for recommendations, there's invariably two or three posts that say "Save up for a (insert name of $200 pen here) or you're just wasting your time...might as well write with a Varsity or a Flair with a split tip!"

 

 

There, I'm done, now. Felt good to get that out in the open!

[bushido]

  On 3/14/2010 at 5:47 AM, bluemagister said:

More things that are taboo to say here without a massive flood of fire and brimstone:

 

1. Rhodia is overrated, overpriced and the orange covers look like Harajuku fad trash. Where is a nice Rhodia notebook WITHOUT purple graph lines and WITH a nice, black, conservative cover?

 

2. J. Herbin inks are pretty, but basically are made of butterflies and dreams. A puff of wind or a light misting of dew is enough to make them run all over the place. Why can't J. Herbin put 330 years of experience into making inks that are 100% waterproof AND bright/wet/smooth?

 

3. Moleskines are a giant ripoff. The company makes them in China for pennies and sells them for dollars in the US where they're snatched up by the dozen...because of the name. The cheap paper can't even handle most FP inks! There are so many other good notebooks that outperform the Moleskine and yet you can always expect to pay $16 for mass-produced throwaway. Miquelrius, Kokuyo and other notebooks are hopefully going to overtake Moleskine in the future and maybe prices will become reasonable across the board.

 

4. Gold nibs do NOT mean quality. The tip material is what makes the pen write well. Just because your pen has a gold nib doesn't mean it's a good enough writer to charge OVER the retail in the Marketplace!

 

5. Not everyone here has a $4000/year budget for pen buying! When newbs ask for recommendations, there's invariably two or three posts that say "Save up for a (insert name of $200 pen here) or you're just wasting your time...might as well write with a Varsity or a Flair with a split tip!"

 

 

There, I'm done, now. Felt good to get that out in the open!

 

bravo! i espec agree with you about #3. today i bought a hardcover blank journal with thick pages, stitched binding for $4 less than a thin, flimsy moleskines that should know better to overcharge for a clearly inferior product.

[Steven]

I hate that Parker, Pilot, Sailor, Schaeffer, Cross, and Lamy use different cartridges. You would think by now these folks would standardize on a single design like the one used in Waterman, Mont Blanc and Pelikan.

 

I hate Parker, Pilot, Schaeffer, Cross and many others don't offer any piston fillers in their product line.

 

I hate that Parker, Pilot, Schaeffer, Cross and many others that don't offer piston fillers have such wimpy cartridge converters as a poor excuse or cop-out for not developing their own piston fillers.

 

I hate that a surprising number of fountain pens come with lousy, scratchy, poorly aligned nibs. I have not found any single brand that can deliver good consistent quality in their nibs.

 

I hate that nibs of same size come in a wide array of width. For example a fine nib can lay down a line from 0.3mm to 0.7mm depending on the manufacturer.

 

You would think by know that these folks would attempts to improve quality, standardize on nib widths and cartridges and offer better product to the few of use pen psychos who buy their product. Maybe we should pick a pen company, send a list of demands and boycott their product until they gives us some respect instead of selling up poor quality and service.

 

Thanks -- I feel better now!

[DAYoung]

  On 3/12/2010 at 1:16 PM, bushido said:

i never had good experiences with pelikans. having collected pens since the 90s, my early pelikans were mediocre other than their prices. then i thought to progress to the limiteds and bought 3 at different times; each time the nib was scratchy and didn't write well at all. unacceptable because they were brand new. i flushed it, inspected the nibs, etc. now i wouldn't even look at a pelikan.

 

It's you.

 

Pelikan is a fine katana, and you're Kikuchiyo.

Edited March 14, 2010 by DAYoung

[hari317]

People complaining about Cartridge converter pens.

[bushido]

  On 3/14/2010 at 7:04 AM, DAYoung said:

  On 3/12/2010 at 1:16 PM, bushido said:

i never had good experiences with pelikans. having collected pens since the 90s, my early pelikans were mediocre other than their prices. then i thought to progress to the limiteds and bought 3 at different times; each time the nib was scratchy and didn't write well at all. unacceptable because they were brand new. i flushed it, inspected the nibs, etc. now i wouldn't even look at a pelikan.

 

It's you.

 

Pelikan is a fine katana, and you're Kikuchiyo.

 

fine katanas are japanese, specifically a namiki. the name's batake.

Edited March 14, 2010 by bushido

[matje]

  On 3/14/2010 at 12:38 AM, jamesh said:

  On 3/13/2010 at 11:17 PM, Bronze said:

  On 3/13/2010 at 10:37 PM, jamesh said:

Something that bugs me is when someone takes note of a pen I'm using and comments or ask about them...they never want to listen to what I want to say. i.e. I was writing with a Parker Vacumatic one day and the guy next to me asked me about it. I got excited and started explaining about how old it was, what a date code is and the filling mechanism. I could tell he quickly lost interest. Oh, well.

 

 

 

- How interested would you be in his hobby about Persian rugs?

 

How quickly would you lose interest if he went on in great detail abut the various knitting techniques, regional patterns, provincial use of color, diverse wool qualities, the subtle nuance in feel, or their cultural connotations?

 

All because you noted he had a nice doormat.......

 

Actually, on this point, I would be most interested. But I do get where you are coming from. I would not begrudge him; however, it bugs me none the less.

 

I hate to listen to or be part of ordinary bland conversation, but I love to see the excitement in someone's eyes when talking about what really engages them (as long as they do it gracefully and in socially receptive manner). I want to see more high-profile nerds in public life, because they are interesting, and I want to see niche tv-programs about things I didn't know were interesting. I want mainstream to go away because it is insultingly boring while insisting on my attention, and because what is interesting is always to be found at the side of the road.

Edited March 14, 2010 by matje

[DAYoung]

  On 3/14/2010 at 7:25 AM, bushido said:

  On 3/14/2010 at 7:04 AM, DAYoung said:

  On 3/12/2010 at 1:16 PM, bushido said:

i never had good experiences with pelikans. having collected pens since the 90s, my early pelikans were mediocre other than their prices. then i thought to progress to the limiteds and bought 3 at different times; each time the nib was scratchy and didn't write well at all. unacceptable because they were brand new. i flushed it, inspected the nibs, etc. now i wouldn't even look at a pelikan.

 

It's you.

 

Pelikan is a fine katana, and you're Kikuchiyo.

 

fine katanas are japanese, specifically a namiki. the name's kuwabatake.

 

No, no. Real katana are German.

 

Really. 'Katana' is Swabian for 'long knife of many folks'.

 

True story.

[bushido]

  On 3/14/2010 at 7:57 AM, DAYoung said:

 

 

No, no. Real katana are German.

 

Really. 'Katana' is Swabian for 'long knife of many folks'.

 

True story.

 

first the word isn't of swabian/german origin but portuguese (source: http://www.embaixadadeportugal.jp/cultural-centre/curiosities/en/). second to say 'real' katana are german is an insult to japanese swordmakers past and present. i'll stop there but feel free to continue in another thread as this is ot.

Edited March 14, 2010 by bushido

[Bronze]

  On 3/14/2010 at 12:38 AM, jamesh said:

  On 3/13/2010 at 11:17 PM, Bronze said:

 

 

- How interested would you be in his hobby about Persian rugs?

 

How quickly would you lose interest if he went on in great detail abut the various knitting techniques, regional patterns, provincial use of color, diverse wool qualities, the subtle nuance in feel, or their cultural connotations?

 

All because you noted he had a nice doormat.......

 

Actually, on this point, I would be most interested. But I do get where you are coming from. I would not begrudge him; however, it bugs me none the less.

 

 

- Aha, I got the impression you were expecting peoples full interest and attention. It seemed to me you were demanding rather than hoping, but I believe I got your point now.

I agree with you on the rugs, sitting on a nice Bidjar right now.

 

 

 

 

  On 3/14/2010 at 7:48 AM, matje said:

I hate to listen to or be part of ordinary bland conversation, but I love to see the excitement in someone's eyes when talking about what really engages them (as long as they do it gracefully and in socially receptive manner). I want to see more high-profile nerds in public life, because they are interesting, and I want to see niche tv-programs about things I didn't know were interesting. I want mainstream to go away because it is insultingly boring while insisting on my attention, and because what is interesting is always to be found at the side of the road.

 

- I fully agree

[fpman]

Not strictly a pen taboo, or a pen dislike, but I can't stand people who cannot tolerate opinions that differ than their own. As in "If you disagree with me you're either defective, deluded or delusional, if not in league with the devil". Luckily those folks don't see to be too plentiful on the FPN - cheap vs pricey, bling vs restrained, we may have different tastes but we all love fountain pens and, I hope, the act of writing with them. We agree to disagree, something that seems all to rare nowadays.

 

One thing about fountain pens that I can't decide whether it's good or bad - you can't write as quickly with them as you can with a ballpoint, at least in my experience.

[ladyambrosia]

I guess I am an odd ball..I do not mind the metal section on my Studio. I also do not mind the feel or look of the Lamy Safari's. Is it bold? Yes. Is it very 80's? Yes. But it is something that feels 80's that I do not mind using. I have gotten so many comments from friends that have been over about my Safari's vs. my other fountain pens mostly because of the look. Two of those friends have gone on to become Lamy Safari owners and new Fountain Pen Fans. I do not care what brings people in as long as they enjoy it and stay when they get to fountain pen enjoyment.

 

 

That said...I am myself not huge on Vintage fountain pens. I prefer old old olllldd Dip pens..or modern fountain.

 

*runs and hides*

[Parkermaniac]

  On 3/13/2010 at 7:47 PM, jgrasty said:

I think any pen over a $100 that uses a cartridge converter is lame. :mad:

 

And this is why I dislike my Bexleys. I don't know why I got them.

 

-Nate

[ladyambrosia]

Oh i forgot to add..I also like cheapies for the most part I have only had one turn out to be nothing like I had hoped.

 

That said I do have two more expensive Pens but they were both gifts

[Tadeyev]

  On 3/12/2010 at 6:41 PM, abcde said:

Just to be an opposite man (but I'm being honest)

 

1. I cannot see the attraction for the standard Montblanc 149. Its a short, fat, standard, run-of-the-mill, overdone, boring style for 600 dollars. It's not even made out of anything expensive (save for the nib). It's a pen for tools who want people outside the pen world to know they have an ohh-la-la Montblanc.

 

2. The markup on fountain pens is ridiculous. Or, at least the markup on crappy fountain pens is ridiculous. Had I money, I would not mind paying 1k+ for some of those beautiful limited editions - they deserve their price. But I'm sure as hell not going to pay half of that for a pen that's not even a fourth as attractive or unique. Sure, we're consumers - but complaints are what stabilize prices. If they put a standard Montblanc 149 at 2000 dollars, it wouldn't sell. As a consumer, I have a right to complain, and that right keeps my prices down!

 

Opposite rant done (no offense meant by the way, and I'm not calling anyone here a tool - unless, well, you know, name is a factor in purchase)

 

 

I agree with you wholeheartedy!

For me, anyway, Montblancs have only been trouble, trouble and more trouble. Each one I had was always drying up within a few days, clogged and or leaked. Tried every kind of ink, no improvement.

Then Montblanc service tried to tell me that it was because I could only use Montblanc ink in it, and refused to check it under warranty.

I must say this was more than 15 years ago, but it put my off Montblanc forever.

As to the 149; in my view a black Namiki Yukari Royale is infinitely better in every way: feed, balance, finish, etc.....However it also costs twice as much!

(Please don't stone me, it is just my personal view and no offense meant )

 

As to LE's, it is kind of crazy to pay thousands extra for the same pen in a different jacket...But then it is no longer a pen, but also an Art Object, perhaps even painted or engraved by a master of some kind.

If you enjoy it each time you pick it up and use it, who am I to say you shouldn't?

I need a watch like a hole in the head, but still collect them for my pleasure- which I experience dozens of times a day when check the time on my wrist and not on my mobile phone :roflmho:

Cheers, all,

Tadeyev