Need new Digital Camera

[RLTodd]

  On 2/22/2010 at 2:00 AM, Siv said:

Perry, if you want to take good pen photos, get yourself a tripod and a light tent. The camera doesn't really matter.

 

Basically, that is correct.

 

The skill and knowledge of the photographer, a stable platform, and control of lighting are the components of good photographs.

 

I've seen garbage taken with Leicas (not picking on Leicas, it is just what those "I simply must have the best" folks with lots of money used to buy) and perfection with box cameras. BUT, it takes a long time to acquire the skill to use that box camera that way.

 

Technology can only compensate to a finite degree for the lack of learning, talent, and or skill.

 

I always recommend www.pbase.com before someone buys a camera. Since the good folks on there will post anything, even the really bad shots, a newbie can get an idea of what a camera can do, especially in the hands of someone who knows what they are doing. It also shows what kind of garbage one can get out of a Leica when they don't know what they are doing.

 

As far as the DSLR goes, you have to ask your self why you want to use one. They are a PITA next to the modern P&S cameras. They have certain advantages, which I almost never hear anyone talking about, and they have certain disadvantages which are also never brought up. My advise is know what you need and buy the appropriate tool.

[limesally]

  On 2/25/2010 at 1:51 PM, sumgaikid said:

Perry,whatever you get,make sure that you get or that it has macro capability. That's the most important

thing when taking pen pics.

 

 

John

 

One reason I wanted a DSLR is the ability to use different lenses. One thing in particular about Nikon DSLRs is that the lens mount has remained the same for years. So you can find really great lenses originally developed for the film cameras that can be used on the DSLR. The reason I mention this is that the new macro lenses cost more than I want to pay - but I can pick up a used, old style lens and use it on the new camera. I have to go on full manual for this, but I don't mind. Just one thing to think about - either an incentive or deterrent, depending on what you like

[RLTodd]

  On 2/26/2010 at 2:26 AM, limesally said:

.....

One reason I wanted a DSLR is the ability to use different lenses. One thing in particular about Nikon DSLRs is that the lens mount has remained the same for years. So you can find really great lenses originally developed for the film cameras that can be used on the DSLR. .......

 

Sort of, but not exactly.

 

There are differences over the years in the different Nikor lense mounts and some lenses will not work with some cameras. Some can be modified, some can't. It is quite well documented on the net, and there are tables that list the lenses that are compatable, compatable with restrictions, and not compatable.

 

I think Ken Rockwell's site has one of the tables.

[PigRatAndGoat]

  On 2/25/2010 at 5:20 PM, RLTodd said:

  On 2/22/2010 at 1:08 AM, pakmanpony said:

......I'm tired of cameras that take a long time to get off a second shot and want something that shoots well at outdoor events like night time football games.

......

 

Oh, I kind of skipped that.

 

If you are serious on that point, really serious, you will have to do quite a bit of research. That feature increases the cost of a camera quite a bit. (since it is a processing issue within th body this is a pretty accurate comparison.) "To get that peformance it is like stepping up from a Dell bargain of the day to the Alienware line."

 

I believe any Nikon DSLR should be able to deliver on what pakmanpony wants. The D3000 has a burst rate of about 3fps. Night photography should also be decent with the ISO set at around 800-1000 with a VR lens.

[PigRatAndGoat]

  On 2/26/2010 at 3:03 AM, RLTodd said:

  On 2/26/2010 at 2:26 AM, limesally said:

.....

One reason I wanted a DSLR is the ability to use different lenses. One thing in particular about Nikon DSLRs is that the lens mount has remained the same for years. So you can find really great lenses originally developed for the film cameras that can be used on the DSLR. .......

 

Sort of, but not exactly.

 

There are differences over the years in the different Nikor lense mounts and some lenses will not work with some cameras. Some can be modified, some can't. It is quite well documented on the net, and there are tables that list the lenses that are compatable, compatable with restrictions, and not compatable.

 

I think Ken Rockwell's site has one of the tables.

 

If you get a camera that has the motor to drive AF lenses, you should be able to use pretty much any lens NIkon has made in the past two decades. However, this feature is not available on many of the lower end cameras, restricting you to only AF-S lenses. To get around this in the price department, I compromised in this situation and got a D200. It is a previous generation camera that is still very capable by any standard, firmly entrenched in the prosumer category, and has the built in lens motor. It is definitely not a beginner DSLR, like the D3000/5000.

Another thing to consider when buying lenses is the future usefulness. If you ever decide to upgrade to full frame, you can pretty much forgot using any DX lenses that you might accumulate. With this in mind, I've only ever owned one DX lens, and that was the 18-55mm VR, just because it is such an awesome little lens! You can use a full frame lens on a DX body, but you don't want to use a DX lens on a full frame. However, if you don't think you'll ever make the (expensive!!!! :blink: ) leap to full frame photography, don't even worry about this.

 

PRAG

[GirchyGirchy]

  On 2/25/2010 at 12:52 PM, OldGriz said:

I truly hope you are kidding... because the statement makes no sense whatsoever...

No, it makes a lot of sense. Technique and setup matters a lot more than the camera used in this case. Any digital camera from one of the major manufacturers will take a very good, if not great, picture of a pen as long as proper lighting, setup, and a tripod is used.

[limesally]

  On 2/26/2010 at 3:03 AM, RLTodd said:

  On 2/26/2010 at 2:26 AM, limesally said:

.....

One reason I wanted a DSLR is the ability to use different lenses. One thing in particular about Nikon DSLRs is that the lens mount has remained the same for years. So you can find really great lenses originally developed for the film cameras that can be used on the DSLR. .......

 

Sort of, but not exactly.

 

There are differences over the years in the different Nikor lense mounts and some lenses will not work with some cameras. Some can be modified, some can't. It is quite well documented on the net, and there are tables that list the lenses that are compatable, compatable with restrictions, and not compatable.

 

I think Ken Rockwell's site has one of the tables.

 

That's true and I should have mentioned that. However, for the entry level Nikons that Perry mentioned and that I have, all the older ones lenses will mount. The pre-AI ones will have to be converted to mount safely onto D90 and up, but otherwise, lenses made after that are fair game.

 

I did already mention having to go to full manual, by which I meant both focus and metering.

[generalist]

  On 2/26/2010 at 3:39 PM, limesally said:

  On 2/26/2010 at 3:03 AM, RLTodd said:

  On 2/26/2010 at 2:26 AM, limesally said:

.....

One reason I wanted a DSLR is the ability to use different lenses. One thing in particular about Nikon DSLRs is that the lens mount has remained the same for years. So you can find really great lenses originally developed for the film cameras that can be used on the DSLR. .......

 

Sort of, but not exactly.

 

There are differences over the years in the different Nikor lense mounts and some lenses will not work with some cameras. Some can be modified, some can't. It is quite well documented on the net, and there are tables that list the lenses that are compatable, compatable with restrictions, and not compatable.

 

I think Ken Rockwell's site has one of the tables.

 

That's true and I should have mentioned that. However, for the entry level Nikons that Perry mentioned and that I have, all the older ones lenses will mount. The pre-AI ones will have to be converted to mount safely onto D90 and up, but otherwise, lenses made after that are fair game.

 

I did already mention having to go to full manual, by which I meant both focus and metering.

 

Do a manual focus, set the F-Stop to as high a value as possible so you get the depth of field, set the speed to as low as possible to avoid noise/grain and then, even with lots of light, take a time exposure. Oh, and do all of this with a tripod and a cable release or remote.

 

I may have to play around with that this weekend. A good reason to break out the pens, the camera equipment and the props.

[PigRatAndGoat]

  On 2/26/2010 at 9:56 PM, generalist said:

Do a manual focus, set the F-Stop to as high a value as possible so you get the depth of field, set the speed to as low as possible to avoid noise/grain and then, even with lots of light, take a time exposure. Oh, and do all of this with a tripod and a cable release or remote.

 

I may have to play around with that this weekend. A good reason to break out the pens, the camera equipment and the props.

 

The way I do it is with the self timer. Idiot proof, which is good for me!

[wimg]

  On 2/26/2010 at 11:34 PM, PigRatAndGoat said:

  On 2/26/2010 at 9:56 PM, generalist said:

Do a manual focus, set the F-Stop to as high a value as possible so you get the depth of field, set the speed to as low as possible to avoid noise/grain and then, even with lots of light, take a time exposure. Oh, and do all of this with a tripod and a cable release or remote.

 

I may have to play around with that this weekend. A good reason to break out the pens, the camera equipment and the props.

 

The way I do it is with the self timer. Idiot proof, which is good for me!

Don't forget to set the timer to 10 seconds in that case. With most cameras you need about 6 seconds before the vibration of the mirror slap has dampened fully.

 

Warm regards, Wim

[PigRatAndGoat]

  On 2/27/2010 at 12:43 AM, wimg said:

  On 2/26/2010 at 11:34 PM, PigRatAndGoat said:

  On 2/26/2010 at 9:56 PM, generalist said:

Do a manual focus, set the F-Stop to as high a value as possible so you get the depth of field, set the speed to as low as possible to avoid noise/grain and then, even with lots of light, take a time exposure. Oh, and do all of this with a tripod and a cable release or remote.

 

I may have to play around with that this weekend. A good reason to break out the pens, the camera equipment and the props.

 

The way I do it is with the self timer. Idiot proof, which is good for me!

Don't forget to set the timer to 10 seconds in that case. With most cameras you need about 6 seconds before the vibration of the mirror slap has dampened fully.

 

Warm regards, Wim

 

Wait... waaahh?

[limesally]

  On 2/27/2010 at 12:43 AM, wimg said:

  On 2/26/2010 at 11:34 PM, PigRatAndGoat said:

  On 2/26/2010 at 9:56 PM, generalist said:

Do a manual focus, set the F-Stop to as high a value as possible so you get the depth of field, set the speed to as low as possible to avoid noise/grain and then, even with lots of light, take a time exposure. Oh, and do all of this with a tripod and a cable release or remote.

 

I may have to play around with that this weekend. A good reason to break out the pens, the camera equipment and the props.

 

The way I do it is with the self timer. Idiot proof, which is good for me!

Don't forget to set the timer to 10 seconds in that case. With most cameras you need about 6 seconds before the vibration of the mirror slap has dampened fully.

 

Warm regards, Wim

 

Did you perhaps mean vibration from depressing the shutter? Because won't the mirror slap as the shutter opens, regardless of how long the timer delay is?

 

(AFAIK, there is no mirror lock-up for taking pictures on the entry level Nikons, though there may be on other models.)

[mjh]

Another option, that might suit the wife/daughter is to look at one of the new micro four-thirds cameras. I'd like a Panasonic GF1 for myself. The image quality on a DSLR will be better the average person wouldn't notice.

 

And I agree with the sturdy tripod (Gitzo or Manfrotto) / light-tent. I've seen great photographs from cheap cameras, and horrible pictures from the best cameras. The operator can make a lot of difference.

 

-MJ

[PigRatAndGoat]

  On 2/27/2010 at 4:39 AM, mjh said:

Another option, that might suit the wife/daughter is to look at one of the new micro four-thirds cameras. I'd like a Panasonic GF1 for myself. The image quality on a DSLR will be better the average person wouldn't notice.

 

And I agree with the sturdy tripod (Gitzo or Manfrotto) / light-tent. I've seen great photographs from cheap cameras, and horrible pictures from the best cameras. The operator can make a lot of difference.

 

-MJ

 

Oh dear, have you been looking at my pictures? :embarrassed_smile:

How you use a camera does make a huge difference. Take a look at some of ethernautrix's stuff. Frankly, it's amazing what she can do with a point a shoot.

[PAKMAN]

Thanks guys for all the input! I really appreciate the time you have spent educating me on the DSLR camera world! I've read about 100 reviews from Rebels to the whole Nikon line to the Sony Alpha and the Pentax K-x from all of your suggestions and from several that you guys have provided back channel. Wow there are so many choices and depending where you look, the prices of these entry level DSLRs vary hugely. Package deals that have extra goodies or multiple lenses add to the many factors to look through. farseer really hooked me after putting me on to some reviews of the Pentax K-x. After looking at Walmart, Staples, and Best Buy to get a first hand look at these cameras I was really honing in on a couple of choices. The Pentax K-x retails for about $649 so is in the same general ball park as a D3000 with two lenses or the Rebel Xsi or the Sony Alpha. Then I found a deal on Amazon through Willoughbys Camera for a Pentax K-x with a 18-55mm and a 50-200mm lens for $589 and I jumped on it. The K-x has the features of the D5000 (sans the flip out lcd) but has in-body stabilization instead of in-lens and best of all for me a diopter adjuster on the eyepiece so I can shoot with my glasses off!

 

Some other selling features were 12.4 mega pixel vs 10.0 , 11-point auto focus, 1280x720 HD video capture at 24 fps, shoots 4.5 shots per sec vs the 3 for the Nikon, also has live view and a Macro setting.

 

I'll do some playing with it when it shows up next week and let you know what I think and try to get some shots uploaded.

 

Thanks again for spending the time to help!

 

Perry

 

 

[PigRatAndGoat]

  On 2/27/2010 at 5:30 AM, pakmanpony said:

Thanks guys for all the input! I really appreciate the time you have spent educating me on the DSLR camera world! I've read about 100 reviews from Rebels to the whole Nikon line to the Sony Alpha and the Pentax K-x from all of your suggestions and from several that you guys have provided back channel. Wow there are so many choices and depending where you look, the prices of these entry level DSLRs vary hugely. Package deals that have extra goodies or multiple lenses add to the many factors to look through. farseer really hooked me after putting me on to some reviews of the Pentax K-x. After looking at Walmart, Staples, and Best Buy to get a first hand look at these cameras I was really honing in on a couple of choices. The Pentax K-x retails for about $649 so is in the same general ball park as a D3000 with two lenses or the Rebel Xsi or the Sony Alpha. Then I found a deal on Amazon through Willoughbys Camera for a Pentax K-x with a 18-55mm and a 50-200mm lens for $589 and I jumped on it. The K-x has the features of the D5000 (sans the flip out lcd) but has in-body stabilization instead of in-lens and best of all for me a diopter adjuster on the eyepiece so I can shoot with my glasses off!

 

Some other selling features were 12.4 mega pixel vs 10.0 , 11-point auto focus, 1280x720 HD video capture at 24 fps, shoots 4.5 shots per sec vs the 3 for the Nikon, also has live view and a Macro setting.

 

I'll do some playing with it when it shows up next week and let you know what I think and try to get some shots uploaded.

 

Thanks again for spending the time to help!

 

Perry

 

Congratulations. It's good to hear that you've found something that you like and suits your needs.

[GirchyGirchy]

That's a great deal you found! I'm sure you'll love it, everyone I know that has some sort of Pentax K does. Congrats!

[RLTodd]

I think that camera has the "crippled" KAF2 mount. That means it will take, and work with, every Asahi/Pentax lens back to the 42Screw Threads w/adapter. (I cannot recall any exceptions) Also, this the reason why used K mount Wide Angle FA lenses are still holding such high prices. There is also an adapter to use the 645 Pentax Medium format lenses, but those lenses are large, heavy, unwieldy, and optimized for the larger 6cm x 4.5 cm format.

 

Pentax has some really good single focal length lenses available for the mount. They cost considerably more than the camera body.

 

http://www.pentaximaging.com/camera-lenses/

 

The 300mm/f4 is a great daytime sports and birder lens at $1,400. Probably can get it discounted around 20% from one of the mail order outfits. (450mm equivalent on a K-x)

 

The (AIR)70-200mm/f2.8 FA zoom is out of production, but if one can find them they make a nice general sports lense, inclucing indoor.

 

The 100mm/f2.8 D FA Macro is certainly attractive at $850. However, for a couple of hundred one can usually find a 100mm/f2.8 FA Macro that should be sufficient. (Macro rule, never but never use a 100mm Macro as a portrait lense, unless you really don't like the person. It really sharpens up facial blemishs.)

[PigRatAndGoat]

  On 2/27/2010 at 6:04 PM, RLTodd said:

I think that camera has the "crippled" KAF2 mount. That means it will take, and work with, every Asahi/Pentax lens back to the 42Screw Threads w/adapter. (I cannot recall any exceptions) Also, this the reason why used K mount Wide Angle FA lenses are still holding such high prices. There is also an adapter to use the 645 Pentax Medium format lenses, but those lenses are large, heavy, unwieldy, and optimized for the larger 6cm x 4.5 cm format.

 

Pentax has some really good single focal length lenses available for the mount. They cost considerably more than the camera body.

 

http://www.pentaximaging.com/camera-lenses/

 

The 300mm/f4 is a great daytime sports and birder lens at $1,400. Probably can get it discounted around 20% from one of the mail order outfits. (450mm equivalent on a K-x)

 

The (AIR)70-200mm/f2.8 FA zoom is out of production, but if one can find them they make a nice general sports lense, inclucing indoor.

 

The 100mm/f2.8 D FA Macro is certainly attractive at $850. However, for a couple of hundred one can usually find a 100mm/f2.8 FA Macro that should be sufficient. (Macro rule, never but never use a 100mm Macro as a portrait lense, unless you really don't like the person. It really sharpens up facial blemishs.)

 

Really? Is this just because you're trying to get too close? A macro lens shouldn't bet particularly sharper than any other lens.

[PigRatAndGoat]

Unless, of course, you're framing like this:

http://farm5.static.flickr.com/4029/4393280850_2db32fb1f5_b.jpg

http://farm5.static.flickr.com/4029/4393263068_b09acb11c2_b.jpg