14K VS 14C

[shrinknib]

Hi

I was looking at a few vintage 146's and was wondering when the nibs changed from 14C to 14K?

If this is a silly question I'm happy if you can help provide me with a link.

 

If some people have a comparison either description or writing samples between the two nibs that would be much appreciated (before I take the plunge!!)

thanks a lot

[professionaldilettante]

carat vs karat?

[Spectron]

Doesn't 14 C stand for a nib with flex in the montBlanc world?

[kushbaby]

I did seem to recall it had to do with spelling used for Karat/carat. Waiting for someone smarter than me in Montblanc lore to speak up...

 

I don't think it has anything to do with flex at all (someone correct me if I'm wrong)...

 

As is usual for my FPN experience, I will watch this space, in anticipation of learning something. :blink:

[Barry Gabay]

Good morning, I first saw 14K on 146 fountain pens in Andorra in the fall of 1982. I didn't see the 14K on 149 nibs until the fall-winter of 1985. These pens were sold in the US. I was not traveling out of the country much between 82 and 85, or when I did I was quite broke, so didn't visit pen stores. Maybe Georges Z and others have more specific dates for the European and Asian appearance of the K nibs. Generally, the K nibs have narrower shoulders and shorter tines (relative to overall nib length) than the C nibs. Hope this helps.

Edited February 12, 2010 by Barry Gabay

[shrinknib]

Good morning, I first saw 14K on 146 fountain pens in Andorra in the fall of 1982. I didn't see the 14K on 149 nibs until the fall-winter of 1985. These pens were sold in the US. I was not traveling out of the country much between 82 and 85, or when I did I was quite broke, so didn't visit pen stores. Maybe Georges Z and others have more specific dates for the European and Asian appearance of the K nibs. Generally, the K nibs have narrower shoulders and shorter tines (relative to overall nib length) than the C nibs. Hope this helps.

 

Thanks to Barry and the others above

I thought I had read somewhere on this forum that the nibs changed over at some stage. I would assume that they "meant" the same thing but was thinking that it would be a way of telling from what era a pen might belong.

 

For example, I was looking at a gorgeous 146 green striated allegedly from 1950 (as would be reasonable) on ebay and the nib is clearly marked 14K. I was surprised as it thought these nibs came in later, and so wondered if the nib had been replaced. I would not want to be paying top dollar if that is the case.

[jar]

I just checked the few older MBs I have from the 50s, 60s and early 70s and of the few samples I have (far less than many folk here) all the nibs have either the C notation or simply the numeric notation like 585. I imagine that it is possible that some market back then might have required a K notation, but honestly I would consider that unlikely.

[shrinknib]

Good morning, I first saw 14K on 146 fountain pens in Andorra in the fall of 1982. I didn't see the 14K on 149 nibs until the fall-winter of 1985. These pens were sold in the US. I was not traveling out of the country much between 82 and 85, or when I did I was quite broke, so didn't visit pen stores. Maybe Georges Z and others have more specific dates for the European and Asian appearance of the K nibs. Generally, the K nibs have narrower shoulders and shorter tines (relative to overall nib length) than the C nibs. Hope this helps.

 

Thanks To Barry and jar for you time.

I have just read Barry's article on the 149 and the dates of nibs are pretty clear (but maybe a stretch to assume the same marking for 146 nibs).

That gives me food for thought and I may just email the seller of this pen directly to ask about this "curiosity"

:embarrassed_smile: :embarrassed_smile:

[Parkman]

Some clarification on this would be good, it's interesting. I've seen 60's 70' and so on with 18c as well as 14c, 14k. Very confusing!

[iridium7777]

i always thought that k/c was a distinction in spelling between european and na market, otherwise they were identical.

[X2CDO]

i always thought that k/c was a distinction in spelling between european and na market, otherwise they were identical.

 

That would have been my theory as well.

[Maxpens]

Hi

I was looking at a few vintage 146's and was wondering when the nibs changed from 14C to 14K?

If this is a silly question I'm happy if you can help provide me with a link.

 

If some people have a comparison either description or writing samples between the two nibs that would be much appreciated (before I take the plunge!!)

thanks a lot

 

c = carat in English, K = Karat in German. So it is the same meaning only different languages. I do not know when or why they change, you will find the same mixing in the safety pens of the 20th. The only thing I saw is that now karat with "K" is also possible in English.

 

 

regards

 

Max

[shrinknib]

Hi

I was looking at a few vintage 146's and was wondering when the nibs changed from 14C to 14K?

If this is a silly question I'm happy if you can help provide me with a link.

 

If some people have a comparison either description or writing samples between the two nibs that would be much appreciated (before I take the plunge!!)

thanks a lot

 

c = carat in English, K = Karat in German. So it is the same meaning only different languages. I do not know when or why they change, you will find the same mixing in the safety pens of the 20th. The only thing I saw is that now karat with "K" is also possible in English.

 

 

regards

 

Max

 

Thank you Max , iridium ,xc2do

 

I have received a reply from the seller which confirms your theories!

 

"Hi,

I found the same problem with the 149 years 50, then I discovered that C was put on the pens of export and K on the pens for the German market."

 

This helps a great deal in my decisions about pursuing this vintage MB 146 I have in mind!

 

I hope that there are no other explanations

:unsure:

[Barry Gabay]

"Hi,

I found the same problem with the 149 years 50, then I discovered that C was put on the pens of export and K on the pens for the German market."

 

Hello, Please clarify the above statement. Maybe I'm missing something. In more than 35 years of drooling over them, and 31 years of using them, I have never seen a Montblanc 149 with a nib marked K prior to the mid-1980s, nor have I met anyone who has. I have seen several photocopies of Montblanc catalogs from the 1950s, printed in German so I assume they are for domestic consumption. In them, the 140 series pens (142, 144, 146, and 149) are pictured with C nibs. I have owned numerous 149s manufactured prior to the mid-1980s. These older 149s (both celluloid and plastic) had the following nibs: 3-tone 14C, 3-tone 18C, 2-tone 14C.

 

I am very anxious to have someone confirm the existence of 149 nibs of an older vintage marked with a K. If true, this will add at least one more nib style to those already documented.

[sumgaikid]

Does the possibility exist that perhaps the reason for going from "C(arat)" to "K(arat)" might be

solely a marketing move at the time--to add just a little more "bling" to the pen?

 

 

John

[georges zaslavsky]

The 14ct nibs are generally more flexier than their 14kt counterparts

[georges zaslavsky]

Good morning, I first saw 14K on 146 fountain pens in Andorra in the fall of 1982. I didn't see the 14K on 149 nibs until the fall-winter of 1985. These pens were sold in the US. I was not traveling out of the country much between 82 and 85, or when I did I was quite broke, so didn't visit pen stores. Maybe Georges Z and others have more specific dates for the European and Asian appearance of the K nibs. Generally, the K nibs have narrower shoulders and shorter tines (relative to overall nib length) than the C nibs. Hope this helps.

1985 was the change of the the letter c to the letter on the word carat for what concerns the 146 on the european market, the change of the letter c to letter k for the 149 on the european market happened in late 1986. About the asian market, I don't have any information about it.

[shrinknib]

"Hi,

I found the same problem with the 149 years 50, then I discovered that C was put on the pens of export and K on the pens for the German market."

 

Hello, Please clarify the above statement. Maybe I'm missing something. In more than 35 years of drooling over them, and 31 years of using them, I have never seen a Montblanc 149 with a nib marked K prior to the mid-1980s, nor have I met anyone who has. I have seen several photocopies of Montblanc catalogs from the 1950s, printed in German so I assume they are for domestic consumption. In them, the 140 series pens (142, 144, 146, and 149) are pictured with C nibs. I have owned numerous 149s manufactured prior to the mid-1980s. These older 149s (both celluloid and plastic) had the following nibs: 3-tone 14C, 3-tone 18C, 2-tone 14C.

 

I am very anxious to have someone confirm the existence of 149 nibs of an older vintage marked with a K. If true, this will add at least one more nib style to those already documented.

 

Hi Barry

I feel like I am the referee in a tennis match, just going from one side to the other.

That is fascinating if that is right (and I have no reason to disagree with you as you have great knowledge and passion in this area).

 

I feel I have to post the pen just to see your thoughts- a green striated 146 thought to be 1950 HERE

 

It is a stunning pen but I was unsure about the nib, which is exactly why I started this topic.

[shrinknib]

Good morning, I first saw 14K on 146 fountain pens in Andorra in the fall of 1982. I didn't see the 14K on 149 nibs until the fall-winter of 1985. These pens were sold in the US. I was not traveling out of the country much between 82 and 85, or when I did I was quite broke, so didn't visit pen stores. Maybe Georges Z and others have more specific dates for the European and Asian appearance of the K nibs. Generally, the K nibs have narrower shoulders and shorter tines (relative to overall nib length) than the C nibs. Hope this helps.

1985 was the change of the the letter c to the letter on the word carat for what concerns the 146 on the european market, the change of the letter c to letter k for the 149 on the european market happened in late 1986. About the asian market, I don't have any information about it.

 

Thank you for your information Georges.

 

That is another vote in the "non original nib" camp.

 

In your opinion did the change from the letter "C" to "K" result in any changes regarding the nib quality/ design/ performance or was this more a marketing and promotional issue?

Jeremy

[Barry Gabay]

Hello Jeremy,

The nib may be correct. The 146 bi-color nibs from the 1950s were very well made and quite flexible. I stand corrected in my post about 146 nibs with C v K nibs. I was thinking of the post-1959, non-celluloid pens. The celluloid 146 pens I have owned and used had nibs very similar to the linked photo. I should have distinguished between the celluloid v plastic generations of 146s. Right now I'm looking at my 644 with a nib of the same design, shape, and markings as the linked photo. The only difference is the K in the photo and the C on mine. I have studied the 149 far more than the 146, so aside from dating various nibs, I should probably bow out of this debate. There are others who know far more about the 146 than I do. I am still curious about anyone who has seen a 149 with a K nib made before the mid-1980s. Sorry to have provided incorrect information. Best wishes, Barry

 

"Hi,

I found the same problem with the 149 years 50, then I discovered that C was put on the pens of export and K on the pens for the German market."

 

Hello, Please clarify the above statement. Maybe I'm missing something. In more than 35 years of drooling over them, and 31 years of using them, I have never seen a Montblanc 149 with a nib marked K prior to the mid-1980s, nor have I met anyone who has. I have seen several photocopies of Montblanc catalogs from the 1950s, printed in German so I assume they are for domestic consumption. In them, the 140 series pens (142, 144, 146, and 149) are pictured with C nibs. I have owned numerous 149s manufactured prior to the mid-1980s. These older 149s (both celluloid and plastic) had the following nibs: 3-tone 14C, 3-tone 18C, 2-tone 14C.

 

I am very anxious to have someone confirm the existence of 149 nibs of an older vintage marked with a K. If true, this will add at least one more nib style to those already documented.

 

Hi Barry

I feel like I am the referee in a tennis match, just going from one side to the other.

That is fascinating if that is right (and I have no reason to disagree with you as you have great knowledge and passion in this area).

 

I feel I have to post the pen just to see your thoughts- a green striated 146 thought to be 1950 HERE

 

It is a stunning pen but I was unsure about the nib, which is exactly why I started this topic.

Edited February 14, 2010 by Barry Gabay