Parker 25 Variations

[enitsirhc]

From left to right: Italic nib, B - broad nib, M - medium nib and F - Fine nib.

 

The feed of the italic nib is not marked, the others are; B, M and F respectively. There seems to be a XF nib and a broad italic nib but as far as yet I haven't found them 'in the wild'.

 

that Parker 25 with italic nib is soooooooooo gorgeous.

[rockspyder]

Very interesting thread!

I also have a few 25's, Steel, white, and matte black, will need to check these finer details mentioned.

Excellent, reliable writers.

[Shaughn]

Just went through the pile again and I found two more with size marks on the nib. One is marked IIL and has a feed marked F, the other one is definitely a frankenpen, without date code and a feed marked M. So up until now it appears that feed marking occurred in the early 1990's.

 

As for nibs available, I found an excel from Parker stating the availability of nibs/front sections. For the P25 are listed XF, F, M, B and medium Italic.

[heretic]

I must confess that I have not paid a great deal of attention to these sturdy well made pens in the past although the design and shape of the Parker 25, when produced, was quite a change from previous models. I was curious to see that one regular pen seller on eBay recently advertise the pen he was selling as a Mk II Parker 25. This prompted me to examine the pens I had in my possession in more detail.

 

I believe the stainless steel version of the pen with the blue trim was made throughout the 15 years of manufacture so it is probably a good one to choose. I have found three differences to the pen.

 

The first and perhaps most significant is that early nibs had a vent hole and were more tapered with longer tines. The photo below illustrates the difference.

 

http://gvlewis.fileave.com/2010_0120pens0129.JPG

 

The second difference, this is one which was highlighted by the seller on ebay, is that whilst the earlier pens had a flat top to the cap, later ones had a slight dimple - as shown below.

 

http://gvlewis.fileave.com/2010_0120pens0130.JPG

 

Finally, there was a change to inscription at the base of the cap from Made in England to Made in UK.

 

My guess is that these changes occurred fairly early on during the Parker 25 life cycle. The most common pens as far as I can see are those with the Mk II style caps with the Made in UK inscription. The Mk II style caps with the Made in England inscription are also fairly common. Flat tops are relatively scarce and I have only found one example of the vent hole type nib. So I would suggest that a timeline would be something like:

 

EARLIEST: Vent hole nib, Flat top, Made in England

EARLY: Mk II nib, Flat top, Made in England

LATER: Mk II nib, Dimpled top, Made in England

MOST RECENT: Mk II nib, Dimpled top, Made in UK

 

These suppositions are made solely from items in my own collection. I would be interested to hear the views of others, particularly those that have come across the vent hole nib.

[heretic]

I have just checked my '25' and find it has a date code of 'TE' stamped on the cap, which makes it a first quarter 1975 production. I bought the pen brand new in 1975 and have not used it a great deal until recently. I have fitted it with a converter, the cartridges are too expensive here and there is only medium - blue Quink available. I much prefer the Lamy Peacock blue I have been using for at least a decade. I have several Parker FP's, one is French, purchased in 1991 and I have several leaky '45's' rescued from the rubbish. The 25 is by far the better writer with a nib as smoothe as silk, which is especially important to a 'south paw' like myself! Some one was mentioning doing manuscript drafts in FP then transferring from draft to text using a computer. I often do this myself and find the FP very useful for sharpening concentration. Most of us who grew up in the age of 'dip pens' first, then graduating to FP's and then biros, remember the problem of trying to correct anything written in ink! Either you got it right, or got a red line through it! There is no doubt that Parker England got the '25' correct first time and it has rightly proven to be a favourite of Parker users. The big thing for me, apart from the smoothe nib, is it does not leak! Parker guaranteed, when the pen first appeared on the market, it would not leak. Many years ago, a frind of mine had one develop a leak and Parker replaced it no problem. He was most impressed. I'm sure that when they introduced the '25' Parker claimed it would not leak in an aircraft, which was a major problem with FP's and biros about that time.

[heretic]

I got my 10th and 11th Parker 25 fountain pens today!

 

http://img97.imageshack.us/img97/8206/12202010285.jpg

 

when will this madness end?

 

The point about the rarity of the black variety in the UK (where the 25 was made) has already been made, it's taken me a long time to get hold of one. Another point is that the Broad Nib is also rare, as most pens sold had the medium nib fitted as standard (Fine nibs are rare too, but are easier to get than the broad nib).

 

Are your pens marked 'B' on the nib? I always felt that the P25 nib in its medium state was a relatively 'fine' writer, a characteristic shared by the stainless steel nibs on the P45.

 

Perhaps colour variations and standard nib sizes or availability vary across the world with country by country prefences, and Parker follow the market preferences.

[heretic]

Just read your post about P25 colours. I have a 'TE' dated P25 which has a dimpled cap and black trim. It would have been imported into New Zealand in 1975, when I purchased it. I have a matching biro and it has blue clip trim. I'm sure they didn't come as a set.... What date did Parker begin production of the P25?

 

Thanks for all the information...and time spent on research...

[enitsirhc]

I fired up my browser, it opened on my homepage and the pen caught my attention:

 

http://img834.imageshack.us/img834/3134/parker25.jpg

 

it's a Parker 25, isn't it?

[Shaughn]

@ Enitsirhc

 

Its is, it definitely is! And a well-used one too, the logo has disappeared from the clip.

 

@ Heretic

As far as I know, Parker started selling P25s in 1975 and dating them not before 1980. If I'd find yours 'in the wild' I would date it 1st quarter 1985, because of that date code, and the matching dimpled tassie.

 

Regards,

Shaughn

[heretic]

@ Enitsirhc

 

Its is, it definitely is! And a well-used one too, the logo has disappeared from the clip.

 

@ Heretic

As far as I know, Parker started selling P25s in 1975 and dating them not before 1980. If I'd find yours 'in the wild' I would date it 1st quarter 1985, because of that date code, and the matching dimpled tassie.

 

Regards,

Shaughn

[heretic]

As far as I can recall, I purchased the pen in 1975 from a local reseller known at that time as Whitcombe & Toombes. I don't have the receipt any more, too long ago, but I checked the biro from the same set and it has no date markings I can find. I'm absolutely possitive I didn't purchase the FP in 1985. I'm also fairly sure the Parker agents didn't bring in the '25' after about 1978-9. A friend of mine tried to get a second '25' around that time and they were no longer imported. The distributors here are a fickle bunch. It's all about markup, not service. I recently had a Rortring Skynn develop probems with the front grip just a year (and almost no use) after I purchased it. The model is no loger supported here or in Australia. The best they could do was a Parker rollerball as a replacement.

[Shaughn]

Well, the only explanation I can think of, is that possibly two P25 owners mixed up their pens or caps; or that on some point in history the cap has been replaced.

 

Caps travelling in time - I doubt sincerely.

 

Yet, there is faint possibility that your pen was made in australia (I own a matte black made in aust (not aus which is austria)) but I'm not aware of any production site there in 1975 which, additionally would have used that or any dating code years in advance of the rest of the parker company.

 

My current hypothesis is that you and your friend (or maybe someone else) unknowingly changed pens or caps.

[TheWanderer]

Uh, a bit OT, but what's the difference between the 'Flighter' and normal versions? :hmm1:

[richardandtracy]

For the P25 the 'Flighter' is the 'normal', and any other colour is painted on top of the flighter version. If my black one were to chip much more, I'd have a flighter...

 

Regards,

 

Richard.

[enitsirhc]

I received a text message/SMS from the store where I get my Parker 25 informing me that they have two (2) more with broad nibs.

 

Be picking up my new babies this coming weekend.

 

And yes, resistance is futile.

[ray501]

Well, the only explanation I can think of, is that possibly two P25 owners mixed up their pens or caps; or that on some point in history the cap has been replaced.

 

Caps travelling in time - I doubt sincerely.

 

Yet, there is faint possibility that your pen was made in australia (I own a matte black made in aust (not aus which is austria)) but I'm not aware of any production site there in 1975 which, additionally would have used that or any dating code years in advance of the rest of the parker company.

 

My current hypothesis is that you and your friend (or maybe someone else) unknowingly changed pens or caps.

 

This is a curiosity then, as I would agree with Shaughn here, and that a TE date plus the dimpled cap would indicate a mark 2, as my revised timeline would suggest:

 

AS LAUNCHED: Vent hole nib, - Flat top, Made in England, SS barrel insert, Large lettering (first year only)

FIRST CHANGE: MK II nib, - Flat top, Made in England, SS barrel insert, Large lettering (year 2 +)

SECOND CHANGE: Brass Barrel Insert, - Mk II nib, Flat top, Made in England, Large lettering (1978+ ?)

THIRD CHANGE: Dimpled top, - Brass Barrel Insert ,Mk II nib, Made in England, Large lettering (1979+)

FOURTH CHANGE: Date Code, - Dimpled top, Brass Barrel Insert ,Mk II nib, Made in England, Large lettering (1980)

FIFTH CHANGE: Made in UK, Small lettering, - Date code, Dimpled top,Mk II nib, Brass Barel insert (1990+ ?)

LAST CHANGE MOST RECENT: Mk II nib stamped, - Made in UK, Small lettering, Date code, Dimpled top, Brass Barel insert (1996+)

 

In addition, AFAIK, Parker (UK) only started to date code their pens from around 1980, the earliest english dated P45s are 'Q' (1980). However, the green/black/red sectioned pens may have been made in a separate run from the standard Blue varieties but I would have thought the steel bits came from a standard parts bin. A 1975 P25 would be early. Does the Nib have a vent hole? And does the barrel have a steel thread or a brass thread? If either of these match the very early types then perhaps the cap is later than the body.

 

I am always impressed at the knowledge of the guys using this forum - I had always thought the P25s were only english made - I did know that some pens were made in Australia but I didn't know the models or the timeline. I think that Parker USA made the point in sales adverts that the P25s they sold were UK sourced. Did any other plant make P25s?

Edited January 6, 2011 by ray501

[heretic]

The P25 I have was bought from the original retailer and has never been out of my possession or had any pieces swapped. It's completely original. It was definitely made in England, not Australia. Interestingly, IIRC the pen boxes you show in your attached photos were not the same as the one this pen came in. The box I had was black with a ribbon stretched across the box to secure the pen, which at the time I remember thinking was too insecure to be of any use. I have given the pen purchase more thought after your comments on dating, but I'm sure the pen was purchased in late 1975. I certainly would not have purchased a P25 in 1985 and by 1990 I have left New Zealand. I'm also sure the retailer I purchased the P25 from, didn't stock that model much after 1980. As I said, a friend of mine tried to obtain a replacement for his that leaked and was unable to get one from the retailer in the very early 1980's. It had to be supplied from the wholesaler. I think his original pen had a green grip, but it's a long time ago and I may be mistaken about that detail.

Regards

David

[enitsirhc]

speaking of pen boxes particularly, the pen box of our P25, I assume this one is the original box our P25 should come with? are there any other?

 

http://img811.imageshack.us/img811/9144/p25case.jpg

 

credit goes to divapenidol7 of eBay Singapore.

[Shaughn]

Yes, there are but basically this is the box. They come in 1, 2 and 3 pen varieties, with an outer cardboard sleeve but later also without a sleeve but in a blister.

 

The inlay is usually plastic, but there are metallic too, most in combination with matte black P25s. I'll try to get some pics posted later today.

 

 

@ heretic

We seem to have a real P25 mystery here!

[richardandtracy]

speaking of pen boxes particularly, the pen box of our P25, I assume this one is the original box our P25 should come with? are there any other?

 

http://img811.imageshack.us/img811/9144/p25case.jpg

 

credit goes to divapenidol7 of eBay Singapore.

For the standard Flighter version in the UK these came with a white card sleeve with black 'Parker' and logo on the outside. For the Matte Black pens the sleeve was black with silver 'Parker' and logo. Mine are long gone.

 

Regards,

 

Richard