WARNING WARNING WARNING DANGER WILL ROBINSON

[framebaer]

I would be very interested to see if anyone can reproduce that effect on a pen feed using BSB.

I have seen other pens (a cheap brand) that literally disintegrated while being used with Bay State Blue. Did the ink cause it? I don't know, but I do know that other pens of the same brand have not disintegrated in like fashion when used with other inks. I do not have enough volume of evidence to name brands or to state categorically that BSB causes this problem, but this Nettuno is another instance that I've chalked up.

An investigation of the phenomenon would be an excellent subject for an article.

 

Seems to me the real issue here is the effect of alkalinity on various plastics. BSB is one of the most, if not the most, Alkaline inks made.

[missnibs]

*jaw-drop* *hugs her collection of Herbin bottles*

 

Yikes! I know I'm going to stick to Herbin. Now here's a brand you can trust: how about the story of how I opened a bottle of Violette Pensée that had been sitting in a drawer for about 8 years, filled up a converter & started writing with a brand new pen without ruining the feed or any part of the nib? No more doubt as to the quality of Herbin ink. But this? Ouch.

[Possum Hill]

An investigation of the phenomenon would be an excellent subject for an article.

Go for it.

:roflmho:

 

Actually I was hoping that a recognized FP expert who sees lots of pens would write it, perhaps in his spare time.

[penpals]

I heard BSB reacts strongly when mixed with another ink. Perhaps this happened here, incomplete flush?

[Bo Bo Olson]

I half expect the tines of that nib to start waving about and a tinny voice to start emanating from the feed: Exterminate! Exterminate!

 

I was thinking more along the lines of The Fly's "help me... help meeeeee..."

 

 

greg

 

I was 5--- my big sisters took me to see the original 1956 movie-- didn't sleep for a week --- they got in trouble big time with the Folks!!!

 

I was 8 and that was bad enough....today's kids of 5 would laugh. No way Frankenstein or the Mummy would make them duck behind a theater seat.

So there are certain inks I'll never use....for Murphy's sake.

 

BSB I believe was used to blue up an once fantastic blue Estie I have. It looked so fine until I put it in the sonic cleaner. So how good a dye is it...should I get a bottle to re-dye my Easty.

Edited December 10, 2009 by Bo Bo Olson

[Ghost Plane]

Good to see pictures so we'll know what we're dealing with and can plan our usage accordingly.

[Wino In Training]

I realized that I had been enrolled in a class that I had forgotten to go to all semester, and only remembered after the drop deadline and just before the exam. Terrible feeling, even in make-believe. Sometimes one's brain can be terribly cruel. When I woke up, I had to check my enrollments online to make sure that I wasn't trying to tell myself something subconsciously.

I had that nightmare myself. Many times. Even years after I was handed my sheepskin from CSU Long Beach.

That one may well be universal.

 

Yup. Still have that one sometimes.

[Possum Hill]

I would be very interested to see if anyone can reproduce that effect on a pen feed using BSB.

I have seen other pens (a cheap brand) that literally disintegrated while being used with Bay State Blue. Did the ink cause it? I don't know, but I do know that other pens of the same brand have not disintegrated in like fashion when used with other inks. I do not have enough volume of evidence to name brands or to state categorically that BSB causes this problem, but this Nettuno is another instance that I've chalked up.

An investigation of the phenomenon would be an excellent subject for an article.

 

Seems to me the real issue here is the effect of alkalinity on various plastics. BSB is one of the most, if not the most, Alkaline inks made.

BSB has a pH of 8 to 9, according to the label. It would be easy to find more alkaline liquids to test plastics in. For example, according to Wikipedia, milk of magnesia has a pH between 10 and 11 and the pH of household ammonia is between 11 and 12.

 

In the list on Glenn's Pen Page, the ink with the highest pH is Sheaffer Black (pre-Slovenian?) with a pH of 9.

[Wino In Training]

Interesting, one would suspect that a known maker of fountain pens would insist on using Bock feeds with their Bock nibs. Apparently that is not the case in this instance. This makes me wonder about the quality control, or perhaps, purchasing practices of the manufacturer of that pen.

 

Too bad Bay State Blue is getting such a bad rap. I absolutely love the color, but don't wish to put up with the issues it presents. I will be keeping a bottle of it around though, as it is a bit of a curiosity.

 

Cheers,

Sean

 

Sounds like more justification for keeping a glass-nibbed dip pen around!

[Possum Hill]

I realized that I had been enrolled in a class that I had forgotten to go to all semester, and only remembered after the drop deadline and just before the exam. Terrible feeling, even in make-believe. Sometimes one's brain can be terribly cruel. When I woke up, I had to check my enrollments online to make sure that I wasn't trying to tell myself something subconsciously.

I had that nightmare myself. Many times. Even years after I was handed my sheepskin from CSU Long Beach.

That one may well be universal.

 

Yup. Still have that one sometimes.

I suspect that nightmare is responsible for the deaths of a significant fraction of people who die in their sleep.

[richardandtracy]

I had this happen to my 14 day old Lamy Vista:

http://i771.photobucket.com/albums/xx356/richardandtracy/LamyVista03.jpg

The pen had been filled 4 times. First with Pelikan Turquoise, then Visconti Red, then Diamine Woodland Green & finally Baystate Blue. It was on day 4 with BSB when the feed became noticably mushy & failed. I had fully flushed out the other inks (you can see the feed, so it is possible to tell). That was this summer.

 

Regards,

 

Richard.

[Possum Hill]

I had this happen to my 14 day old Lamy Vista:

http://i771.photobucket.com/albums/xx356/richardandtracy/LamyVista03.jpg

The pen had been filled 4 times. First with Pelikan Turquoise, then Visconti Red, then Diamine Woodland Green & finally Baystate Blue. It was on day 4 with BSB when the feed became noticably mushy & failed. I had fully flushed out the other inks (you can see the feed, so it is possible to tell). That was this summer.

 

Regards,

 

Richard.

 

That seems to be typical, if a Lamy feed is going to fail. Has anyone seen a different type of failure of these feeds?

[JakobS]

Though I do not have many decades of fountain pen use and maintenance behind me( only a decade!) I would be more than willing to test out different plastics that feeds are made of to see how they react with BSB, I would need a bottle of BSB though if anyone could spare one, or at least a few mls of the ink to do the tests. This would be fun, as I can really get back into the research part of science that I love so much, even if it is more chemical than biological!! haha Let me know if anyone is interested!

[laplume]

Thank you for the information. One would say from quite a number of replies that the repeated & unanimous warnings of every single pen expert/restorer against the use of specific inks arises visceral, impolite and quite blind replies. I am grateful. For the knowledgeable advice, the patience and the courage. Some of us do appreciate it, sir.

[limesally]

Thank you for the information. One would say from quite a number of replies that the repeated & unanimous warnings of every single pen expert/restorer against the use of specific inks arises visceral, impolite and quite blind replies. I am grateful. For the knowledgeable advice, the patience and the courage. Some of us do appreciate it, sir.

 

Are you and I reading the same thread? Nowhere in Richard's OP do I see any mention of a warning against a specific ink, unless something got edited within the last few minutes.

 

Though the picture is cautionary, indeed.

[laplume]

[

 

Are you and I reading the same thread? Nowhere in Richard's OP do I see any mention of a warning against a specific ink, unless something got edited within the last few minutes.

 

Though the picture is cautionary, indeed.

 

With due respect, madame: the ink that has caused the damaged has been clearly named. It happens to be one that has been repeatedly mentioned here for causing damage and of a brand and category ( highly saturated, new boutique inks) that every single expert/restorer/official tech service I've had the chance to speak to has singled out as to avoid. If it was any other maker, the response would be quite different. Is clear to me that there is a partial, biased ( and clearly rude towards the OP) reply from a number of members. So yes, we are reading the same post.

[Possum Hill]

Thank you for the information. One would say from quite a number of replies that the repeated & unanimous warnings of every single pen expert/restorer against the use of specific inks arises visceral, impolite and quite blind replies. I am grateful. For the knowledgeable advice, the patience and the courage. Some of us do appreciate it, sir.

I think that "repeated & unanimous warnings of every single pen expert/restorer against the use of specific inks" is overstating the case.

 

We do need more honest, detailed reports of events, like this Nettuno Nautilus feed damage.

 

Now I must decide whether to try BSB in one of my older Lamy Safaris.

[OcalaFlGuy]

Interesting, one would suspect that a known maker of fountain pens would insist on using Bock feeds with their Bock nibs. Apparently that is not the case in this instance. This makes me wonder about the quality control, or perhaps, purchasing practices of the manufacturer of that pen.

 

Too bad Bay State Blue is getting such a bad rap. I absolutely love the color, but don't wish to put up with the issues it presents. I will be keeping a bottle of it around though, as it is a bit of a curiosity.

 

Cheers,

Sean

 

Sounds like more justification for keeping a glass-nibbed dip pen around!

 

Only if it's a BLUE glass dip pen or one that's looks nice next to blue...

 

I went to top of my bottle of diluted 20% BSB today (20% water to help with hard starting) with a never before used new glass, that's GLASS eyedropper. The eyedropper had BSB in it for maybe 3 minutes.

 

Stained the eyedropper blue...

 

(I still stand behind my perfect pen for BSB being my clear Blue Kultur demonstrator. If it stains it, it'll only make it look nicer!)

 

Bruce in Ocala, FL

[Possum Hill]

[

 

Are you and I reading the same thread? Nowhere in Richard's OP do I see any mention of a warning against a specific ink, unless something got edited within the last few minutes.

 

Though the picture is cautionary, indeed.

 

With due respect, madame: the ink that has caused the damaged has been clearly named. It happens to be one that has been repeatedly mentioned here for causing damage and of a brand and category ( highly saturated, new boutique inks) that every single expert/restorer/official tech service I've had the chance to speak to has singled out as to avoid. If it was any other maker, the response would be quite different. Is clear to me that there is a partial, biased ( and clearly rude towards the OP) reply from a number of members. So yes, we are reading the same post.

It is possible that the ink BSB caused the damage, but Richard can only report what he was told and has observed. His source is quite probably reliable, but not as reliable as if Richard himself had observed the damage as it occurred and was completely confident of the recent history of the pen.

 

I found some of the posts verged on being inconsiderate before the ink was named, because the ink had not been named, so that could hardly be the result of bias in favor of a particular ink or brand.

[penguinmaster]

I'm glad that he named the ink. This forum is about passing on information to FP users, good and bad. I take this as yet one more reason to take precautions when using BSB.

 

However I don't know how much more warning Noodlers can do about BSB. Not to mention it's come up in numerous threads about the possibility of BSB doing this. All the Info about BSB has been posted publicly, even talking about the ph and all sort of those numbers. If someone chooses not to heed the information presented to them, it's their own fault at that point.

 

Before this thread turns into a bashing of this ink (or all of Noodlers in general), let's consider the reason Richard posted this. It came across as trying to inform people more people again. I didn't see in any of his posts where he said to not use Noodlers BSB.

 

I personally love BSB. However I know to take precautions with this ink, which is what we all should do. It is obvious it has weird reactions with some feeds.

 

Regards,

 

Tom