Thinning Ink

[vela]

I have a bottle of Dr. Ph. Martin's BOMBAY India Ink: Van Dyke Brown.

 

I absolutely love the colour, but not the texture of my ink. My ink is gloppy. My pen doesn't like it. I don't enjoy writing with it.

 

Why is it so much thicker than my BLUE (same brand).

 

How can I fix it?

[ZeissIkon]

  On 11/25/2009 at 1:30 AM, vela said:

I have a bottle of Dr. Ph. Martin's BOMBAY India Ink: Van Dyke Brown.

 

I absolutely love the colour, but not the texture of my ink. My ink is gloppy. My pen doesn't like it. I don't enjoy writing with it.

 

Why is it so much thicker than my BLUE (same brand).

 

How can I fix it?

 

First, let me verify you're not using this ink in a fountain pen: India inks contain binders that are not water soluble after drying, and can clog a fountain pen in a way that requires disassembly to correct (usually a job for a pen repairer, at a cost of several tens of dollars).

 

That said, you should be able to thin any of Dr. Martin's inks with plain distilled water -- but don't use very much. Start with a few drops. The thickening is most likely due to evaporation -- even if the bottle was that way from new, if it sat on store shelves longer than the blue (like several years longer) significant water may have escaped through the plastic of the cap or the rubber of the eyedropper (or it might simply not have gotten closed tightly at the factory after filling).

[Sandy1]

+1 on the Post by ZeissIkon. India Ink and FPs are NOT compatible. Never. Ever. Ever. Also agree with adding a few drops of d. water - certainly no more than 5% of your starting volume. Give the ink a serious stir/mix. Maybe it's just a bad bottle - especially when you mention 'gloppy'.

 

If it's India ink, and you're using a dip pen, then you can be more aggressive with the ink: perhaps cutting it with lacquer thinner (or benzene if you have any) rather than water would be more appropriate - a major ingredient in India ink being shellac. -- BR S1

[lapis]

If you don't believe us, read this.

 

Mike

[Ink Stained Wretch]

  On 11/25/2009 at 1:30 AM, vela said:

I have a bottle of Dr. Ph. Martin's BOMBAY India Ink: Van Dyke Brown.

 

I absolutely love the colour, but not the texture of my ink. My ink is gloppy. My pen doesn't like it. I don't enjoy writing with it.

In addition to what the others have said there's also the possibility that something is growing in that bottle. The "gloppy" aspect could be colonies of living things. Unlikely in India ink but possible. How does the ink smell? If you have an infestation the best thing to do is to dump that ink.

 

  On 11/25/2009 at 3:58 PM, Sandy1 said:

If it's India ink, and you're using a dip pen, then you can be more aggressive with the ink: perhaps cutting it with lacquer thinner (or benzene if you have any) rather than water would be more appropriate - a major ingredient in India ink being shellac. -- BR S1

Oh, I wouldn't recommend that anyone use benzene, if they're not familiar with it. Benzene can be a serious poison with some very sneaky properties.

[vela]

Thank you (all) so much.

 

The ink is being used with a dip pen. (You can stop sweating)

 

I shall start with distilled water, and see how it goes.

[CCMphysician]

  On 11/25/2009 at 3:58 PM, Sandy1 said:

+1 on the Post by ZeissIkon. India Ink and FPs are NOT compatible. Never. Ever. Ever. Also agree with adding a few drops of d. water - certainly no more than 5% of your starting volume. Give the ink a serious stir/mix. Maybe it's just a bad bottle - especially when you mention 'gloppy'.

 

If it's India ink, and you're using a dip pen, then you can be more aggressive with the ink: perhaps cutting it with lacquer thinner (or benzene if you have any) rather than water would be more appropriate - a major ingredient in India ink being shellac. -- BR S1

 

Good luck getting your hands on benzene. The EPA howls about it. That, and it will probably get you on an FBI watch list. I'm not even sure if you can even buy it without being in a registered laboratory. It can be used in too many things from drug production to explosives manufacture.

 

I am not sure what the effect is of isopropyl alcohol on fountain pens, does anyone here know? If it is safe, I would place that over water as it contains relatively nonpolar methyl groups which will help to dissolve the actual dye portion (as well as whatever hydrophobic fillers) of the ink, thus solving your problem. I would use the 90-95% version you can find in your grocery story.

[Possum Hill]

  On 11/26/2009 at 5:17 AM, CCMphysician said:

I am not sure what the effect is of isopropyl alcohol on fountain pens, does anyone here know? If it is safe, I would place that over water as it contains relatively nonpolar methyl groups which will help to dissolve the actual dye portion (as well as whatever hydrophobic fillers) of the ink, thus solving your problem. I would use the 90-95% version you can find in your grocery story.

I think that isopropyl alcohol is the active ingredient in several products for cleaning computer and other electronic device parts. It doesn't seem to affect the plastic parts of those devices, so one might expect it to be reasonably safe on modern pens. It would be prudent to test on an area that isn't usually visible.

[Ink Stained Wretch]

  On 11/26/2009 at 5:17 AM, CCMphysician said:

I am not sure what the effect is of isopropyl alcohol on fountain pens, does anyone here know? If it is safe, I would place that over water as it contains relatively nonpolar methyl groups which will help to dissolve the actual dye portion (as well as whatever hydrophobic fillers) of the ink, thus solving your problem. I would use the 90-95% version you can find in your grocery story.

When I've asked about using isopropyl alcohol to clean some really stubborn pens and parts I've been told by many knowledgeable folks here on FPN that this is a very bad idea. At least some pens have parts that will begin to dissolve of soften under the influence of isopropyl alcohol.

 

I had a dip pen that I'd bought in the mid-60s for 10¢ and the feed had apparently been clogged with India ink, and I must have done that many years ago. On advice I didn't use isopropyl alcohol on that, but I did use ammonia. I let it sit in the ammonia bath for way too long and what came out was a mess . Apparently it had an actual hard rubber feed. I know that alcohol would have made a mess of that feed too, but here was another attempt by me to fix something pen related that went awry.

 

I know that some pen materials really will just go away when put in contact with alcohol.

[CCMphysician]

  On 11/26/2009 at 7:45 AM, Ink Stained Wretch said:

  On 11/26/2009 at 5:17 AM, CCMphysician said:

I am not sure what the effect is of isopropyl alcohol on fountain pens, does anyone here know? If it is safe, I would place that over water as it contains relatively nonpolar methyl groups which will help to dissolve the actual dye portion (as well as whatever hydrophobic fillers) of the ink, thus solving your problem. I would use the 90-95% version you can find in your grocery story.

When I've asked about using isopropyl alcohol to clean some really stubborn pens and parts I've been told by many knowledgeable folks here on FPN that this is a very bad idea. At least some pens have parts that will begin to dissolve of soften under the influence of isopropyl alcohol.

 

I had a dip pen that I'd bought in the mid-60s for 10¢ and the feed had apparently been clogged with India ink, and I must have done that many years ago. On advice I didn't use isopropyl alcohol on that, but I did use ammonia. I let it sit in the ammonia bath for way too long and what came out was a mess . Apparently it had an actual hard rubber feed. I know that alcohol would have made a mess of that feed too, but here was another attempt by me to fix something pen related that went awry.

 

I know that some pen materials really will just go away when put in contact with alcohol.

 

There you have it. Thank you for the reply. I think from the threads above it is best to get rid of the india ink and thoroughly flush the pen.

[ZeissIkon]

  On 11/26/2009 at 1:53 AM, vela said:

Thank you (all) so much.

 

The ink is being used with a dip pen. (You can stop sweating)

 

I shall start with distilled water, and see how it goes.

 

FWIW, if you have an India ink that has shellac binder, it ought to smell (at least faintly) of alcohol; the standard thinner/solvent for shellac is ethanol, though I understand methanol and isopropanol also work. Most modern India inks use gum arabic as their binder, which (among other things) makes it possible for a technical pen cleaner like Rapid-O-Eze to remove clogs (providing they aren't so monolithic as to prevent the solvent from reaching the whole clog at once; dissolving a clog from the ends would take a very, very long time) without destroying celluloid, acrylic, or polystyrene pen parts (which will soften or craze when exposed to strong alcohol solutions).

 

Your dip pen ought to be fine with anything; I'm using one with homemade iron-gall ink that started as battery acid and very strong black tea; the ability to clean the pen completely after each use, almost as an afterthough, as well as the lack of a feed with small, inaccessible passages makes dip pens the best tools to use with inks other than those made specifically for fountain pens.

[vela]

I decided to try the distilled water first, as it was the least "toxic". (I have cats, and they don't like to be near either benzene, or rubbing alcohol.)

 

I diluted the ink as much as I dared, with the water. It helped some. However, the ink is nowhere near as "thin" as the other colours I have. I can even feel that it is thicker when I (gently) shake the bottle.

 

Since I'm not willing to add in anything other than the distilled water, I've decided to give up on trying to fix it, and simply return the ink to the store.

[Sandy1]

  On 11/30/2009 at 1:28 AM, vela said:

Since I'm not willing to add in anything other than the distilled water, I've decided to give up on trying to fix it, and simply return the ink to the store.

Hello vela,

Please let us know how this is resolved.

Perhaps we could use it as the basis for a Kabuki play or ???

BR

S1

[Ink Stained Wretch]

  On 11/30/2009 at 1:28 AM, vela said:

I decided to try the distilled water first, as it was the least "toxic". (I have cats, and they don't like to be near either benzene, or rubbing alcohol.)

 

I diluted the ink as much as I dared, with the water. It helped some. However, the ink is nowhere near as "thin" as the other colours I have. I can even feel that it is thicker when I (gently) shake the bottle.

Hmmm, that might well be an indication of SITB, a fungal or mold colony forming a non-homogeneous mass that's not going to be as fluid as the ordinary ink.

 

  Quote

Since I'm not willing to add in anything other than the distilled water, I've decided to give up on trying to fix it, and simply return the ink to the store.

Probably best. I hope you can get your money back.