Nibs

[Nurmister]

2 hours ago, Andrew_L said:

Cross Townsend (Pilot nib), made in Ireland

 

Detailed: http://lenskiy.org/2021/04/modern-cross-townsend-566/

 

How would you compare this generation of Pilot-derived Cross nibs to the current, Sailor-derived generation?

[Andrew_L]

1 hour ago, Nurmister said:

How would you compare this generation of Pilot-derived Cross nibs to the current, Sailor-derived generation?

 

I can't compare it yet, because this is my first acquaintance with this brand (Cross). As far as I know, Sailor nibs are installed only in the Peerless model and judging by the correspondence of the Cross-Pilot nibs to the original Pilot nibs, I can assume that the Cross-Sailor nibs will correspond to the standard Sailor nibs (1911L). One of these days, should send to me a Cross Townsend with a Pelikan nib for adjusting, I hope I will have the opportunity to compare them.

[Nurmister]

6 minutes ago, Andrew_L said:

 

I can't compare it yet, because this is my first acquaintance with this brand (Cross). As far as I know, Sailor nibs are installed only in the Peerless model and judging by the correspondence of the Cross-Pilot nibs to the original Pilot nibs, I can assume that the Cross-Sailor nibs will correspond to the standard Sailor nibs (1911L). One of these days, should send to me a Cross Townsend with a Pelikan nib for adjusting, I hope I will have the opportunity to compare them.

 

Mmm yes that's similar to what I've heard, only the Peerless has the Sailor (KoP, not 1911L  I think -- given the architecture) nib. I forgot that the new Townsends have Pelikan nibs. It will be a very interesting comparison, given I've heard the Pilot-derived nib on the Townsend is very good.

[Andrew_L]

2 hours ago, Nurmister said:

Mmm yes that's similar to what I've heard, only the Peerless has the Sailor (KoP, not 1911L  I think -- given the architecture) nib. I forgot that the new Townsends have Pelikan nibs. It will be a very interesting comparison, given I've heard the Pilot-derived nib on the Townsend is very good.

No, not the KOP, namely the Large. The forum has a topic where a colleague FPNer took photos of the 1911L and Peerless nib. And one more clarification is not in the new Townsends, in the old Townsends. As far as I understand, the new Cross models are made in China(from 2009) including nibs (not sure about the gold ones).

[Nurmister]

29 minutes ago, Andrew_L said:

No, not the KOP, namely the Large. The forum has a topic where a colleague FPNer took photos of the 1911L and Peerless nib. And one more clarification is not in the new Townsends, in the old Townsends. As far as I understand, the new Cross models are made in China(from 2009) including nibs (not sure about the gold ones).

 

My Cross knowledge certainly needs brushing up, you're right: the Peerless nib is in the 1911L size.

 

Interestingly, it is in 18K rather than 21K: I wonder if it'll be softer then. I initially thought it was the KoP size, given how big the Peerless is as a pen.

 

As for the Townsends, and Cross in general, I was aware the moved production away from the US to China a while ago -- still thought they used Pelikan nibs though. 

 

However, comparing a Pelikan-made nib on the townsend:

 

versus the current one, we can see differences, particularly in the tipping:

 

 

Which does suggest they are made in-house (in China). Strange.

 

Edit: Well, the circular tipping on the new M nib is like the tipping on modern (2000s+) Medium Pelikan nibs, whereas the tipping on the LL Cross Townsend above is like that of a modern fine Pelikan nib, which makes sense given it is an F. So perhaps the nibs are still made by Pelikan?

The shape of the nibs is still similar.

This is confusing, haha. It'll be easier if I had a Townsend in hand, which I do not. I suppose if you ever get one, it will be good to do a more precise comparison.

[Andrew_L]

Yes, theoretically I'll get a Townsend with a Pelikan nib one of these days, but this is also not a modern pen, as I was told, which lay in the table for a long time. But the modern Townsend made in China, I definitely won't buy :). In terms of line thickness, the Pelikan has always been known with wider on 1 step size or even 1.5 steps in relation to the accepted European size. At the same time, the Pilot nib for Cross have nib size by size in European standard, and not Japanese standard, where the nib size smaller on 1 step than European one.

[silverlifter]

[Andrew_L]

Montblanc. White Dragon. (made by Montblanc Artisan Atelier) Limited Edition 88, 2021

 

 

Detailed: http://lenskiy.org/2021/03/montblanc-artisan-atelier-exquisite-luxury/

[Andrew_L]

Cross Townsend chrome accents (Pilot nib), made in Ireland

 

 

Detailed: http://lenskiy.org/2021/04/modern-cross-townsend-696-pilot/

 

ps: The next one will be the Pelikan nib and compare 

[readytotalk]

On 4/15/2021 at 6:34 PM, Nurmister said:

As for the Townsends, and Cross in general, I was aware the moved production away from the US to China a while ago -- still thought they used Pelikan nibs though. However, comparing a Pelikan-made nib on the townsend... versus the current one, we can see differences, particularly in the tipping:

Which does suggest they are made in-house (in China).

I guess this pic is not real photo but just a render, so it can be unreal.

At this angle such a grind is definitely Pelikan-made)). I wonder the feed is also by Pelikan. 

What about transferring of Cross nib production to China... it seems unlikely, that will be the first precedent, no? 

 

PS Nice photos, Andrew, well done)!

[Nurmister]

1 hour ago, readytotalk said:

I guess this pic is not real photo but just a render, so it can be unreal.

At this angle such a grind is definitely Pelikan-made)). I wonder the feed is also by Pelikan. 

What about transferring of Cross nib production to China... it seems unlikely, that will be the first precedent, no? 

 

PS Nice photos, Andrew, well done)!

 

It seems to be a real photo, given the reflection on the section ring and nib.

And it does seem to be a Pelikan nib! I finally found a photo of the modern (Chinese) Cross Townsend feed:

 

 

However, the grind seems different from that of the photo. Strange.

 

Looking forward to Andrew's comparison.

[Andrew_L]

As I promised: Pelikan vs Pilot (hello Friday:))

 

Cross Townsend Black Lacquered w|14K Pelikan nib

 

 

Pelikan vs Pilot

 

 

Details: http://lenskiy.org/2021/04/modern-cross-townsend-566-pelikan/

[readytotalk]

Interesting! There are more and more varieties of Cross nibs are revealed! 

Pelikan-made and Pilot-made Townsend nibs, ОК. But what about modern nibs? What about steel and golden nibs in Century I and II? Were there steel nibs by Pelikan? 

P.S. It starts to remind me of a sci-fi novel "Second variety" by Philip K. Dick)

"How many varieties are there, and who produces them?"

 

[Nurmister]

4 hours ago, Andrew_L said:

As I promised: Pelikan vs Pilot (hello Friday:))

 

Cross Townsend Black Lacquered w|14K Pelikan nib

 

 

Pelikan vs Pilot

 

 

Details: http://lenskiy.org/2021/04/modern-cross-townsend-566-pelikan/

 

Ah, great to have this comparison! Interesting verdict on preferring the Pilot, but it does make sense: Pilot can make some great steel nibs, and I personally have not been very impressed by Pelikan nails. In a Cross especially, I think it is more interesting to have a "custom" Pilot nib than essentially the same nib you get on a Souverän. Thank you for the post (and great handwriting).

[readytotalk]

On 4/23/2021 at 10:46 PM, Nurmister said:

Pilot can make some great steel nibs, and I personally have not been very impressed by Pelikan nails. In a Cross especially, I think it is more interesting to have a "custom" Pilot nib than essentially the same nib you get on a Souverän.

Here is another photo of Cross nib by Pilot, pay close attention to precision of inner surface finish.

[Andrew_L]

Here's another Cross - Cross Century II - one might say a younger brother, but with an equally(and may be more) pleasant nib, though of unknown production.

 

Details: http://lenskiy.org/2021/04/modern-cross-century-ii/

[Nurmister]

22 hours ago, readytotalk said:

Here is another photo of Cross nib by Pilot, pay close attention to precision of inner surface finish.

 

This is a very interesting finish. It seems that there are channels leading ink towards the tip? And outside these "channels", the finishing is brushed, perhaps to encourage ink to flow towards the channels (I believe plastic feeds are acid-etched for a similar purpose).

 

I've never really considered nib undersides, because they usually are simple. But this seems different. What do you think?

[Nurmister]

15 hours ago, Andrew_L said:

Here's another Cross - Cross Century II - one might say a younger brother, but with an equally(and may be more) pleasant nib, though of unknown production.

 

Details: http://lenskiy.org/2021/04/modern-cross-century-ii/

 

I've never put much thought into the Century II, but this was a very pretty pen. I can't recognize the nib either, but the engraving is beautiful: for some reason it reminds me of 

 

 

my "holy holy grail": the MB 75th anniversary skeleton. Maybe it was a Pilot nib... I have steel Pilot nibs of this and older era, and even they are springy. But as you show, the feed doesn't look like a Pilot feed. Strange.

 

It was also nice to know where the Peerless name comes from. I previously assumed it was just chintzy marketing.

[Andrew_L]

52 minutes ago, Nurmister said:

It was also nice to know where the Peerless name comes from. I previously assumed it was just chintzy marketing.

 

Thank you. No, I do not think that this is a Pilot nib, at least it is not technologically because the Pilot does not make nibs of this size. As for the history, you are right, sometimes is learn so many interesting things while preparing posts. I also did not know that A.T. Cross had invented the first eyedropper and about first ballpoint pens which been invented at the end of the 19th century :).

[readytotalk]

4 hours ago, Nurmister said:

This is a very interesting finish. It seems that there are channels leading ink towards the tip? And outside these "channels", the finishing is brushed, perhaps to encourage ink to flow towards the channels (I believe plastic feeds are acid-etched for a similar purpose).

 

I've never really considered nib undersides, because they usually are simple. But this seems different. What do you think?

Most people don`t consider nib undersides).
But having some experience in repairing, regrinding and adjusting nibs, I can honestly say: looking at the upper surface of nib we see the face of the pen, but only by looking at the lower surface it`s possible to see its soul.