Noodler's Socrates

[Goodwhiskers]

I've cataloged this review in the Index of Ink Reviews on the "by brand name" list, but not on the "by color list" because I don't know which of the existing color categories on the list to use. Suggestions, anyone? Thanks in advance!

*bump*

[meanwhile]

Surely Socrates is supposed to be a purple?

[Carrie]

That's certainly how I would have classed it.

[meanwhile]

That's certainly how I would have classed it.

Yes - if an ink is a questionable shade, or comes out as one of several shades depending on the paper and pen, the fairest and simplest thing to do would seem to be to put it under the colour it is *suposed* to be. As long as this *is* one of the possible descriptions!

[*david*]

I would definitely like to know if the feathering is a feature of the eternal inks in general or if it just something with the UK market eternals.

No, feathering is not characteristic of Eternals, Contracts or Bulletproofs. Look only at Noodler's Black as evidence.

The black is in a class of its own. All the other colours perform very differently than the black does. In general, they tend to spread a bit, making the line wider than I expected from a given pen. For me they don't feather in the usual sense (that is, they don't make messy jagged edges to the line), but they do spread the line wider in a strange way.

The black does not even have a hint of this behaviour. For me, while the coloured eternal inks' permanence is bulletproof, only the black has bulletproof performance to go with it.

[Roger]

The black is in a class of its own. All the other colours perform very differently than the black does. In general, they tend to spread a bit, making the line wider than I expected from a given pen. For me they don't feather in the usual sense (that is, they don't make messy jagged edges to the line), but they do spread the line wider in a strange way.

The black does not even have a hint of this behaviour. For me, while the coloured eternal inks' permanence is bulletproof, only the black has bulletproof performance to go with it.

Yes, but at issue was feathering, not spreadability, widening or whatever we choose to call it.

 

I wish, at times, that Nathan's standard Black would flow a bit more and I know I'm not alone. Viseguy's mix of Black and Noodler's/SwishMix Nile Ebony is an attempt to gain both "blackness" and flow.

 

This colored water, aka ink, can be as complex as we care to have it. More variables than I can cope with, that's for sure! :blink:

[Viseguy]

The black is in a class of its own. All the other colours perform very differently than the black does. In general, they tend to spread a bit, making the line wider than I expected from a given pen. For me they don't feather in the usual sense (that is, they don't make messy jagged edges to the line), but they do spread the line wider in a strange way.

The black does not even have a hint of this behaviour. For me, while the coloured eternal inks' permanence is bulletproof, only the black has bulletproof performance to go with it.

A fair comment, IME. Of all the eternals, I find Aquamarine to be the closest to Black in all-around performance; it seems less prone to spreading/feathering than, say, Gulf Stream Blue or Iraqi Indigo. That said, for my purposes -- I write mostly on cheap, recycled paper -- the Eternals I've tried perform quite well, all in all.

 

Wouldn't it be great, though, if Nathan could make five basic colors -- Red, Green, Blue, Purple, Brown -- that were as "bulletproof" as Black, in performance as well as permanence? That's where he should be pushing the envelope now, 2+ years out, IMHO. We know he can do colors.

[Goodwhiskers]

That's certainly how I would have classed it.

Thanks, Carrie and 'meanwhile.' Purple it is.

[meanwhile]

Viseguy:

Wouldn't it be great, though, if Nathan could make five basic colors -- Red, Green, Blue, Purple, Brown -- that were as "bulletproof" as Black, in performance as well as permanence?  That's where he should be pushing the envelope now, 2+ years out, IMHO.  We know he can do colors.

 

That would be excellent.

 

Or even better (but perhaps not achievable) if he could provide bulletproof performance primary colour inks that could be safely blended in any combination - then we could have any colour we wanted.

 

Let's wish Nathan well in overcoming this tiny hiccup in Noodler's history!

Edited June 22, 2006 by meanwhile

[Carrie]

I'd definitely like to see the bulletproof inks with the same sort of performance you get from Zhivago (haven't used the black, so can't comment on that). I've given up on the Socrates, it dries out overnight in most pens and so just isn't worth the hassle. I've watered it down, but that hadn't improved performance. To be honest, my recent experience of Noodlers inks has put me off trying anymore. The Socrates I just cleaned out of a Parker 21 which had been left for a week floated in particles on the top of a bowl of water. I've never seen ink behave like that when cleaning a pen out and I just don't think it's worth the risk of putting it into anymore of my pens.

[tonyv]

I'd definitely like to see the bulletproof inks with the same sort of performance you get from Zhivago (haven't used the black, so can't comment on that). I've given up on the Socrates, it dries out overnight in most pens and so just isn't worth the hassle. I've watered it down, but that hadn't improved performance. To be honest, my recent experience of Noodlers inks has put me off trying anymore. The Socrates I just cleaned out of a Parker 21 which had been left for a week floated in particles on the top of a bowl of water. I've never seen ink behave like that when cleaning a pen out and I just don't think it's worth the risk of putting it into anymore of my pens.

Carrie,

 

In another thread, similar problems were discussed re Noodler's El' Lawrence, complete flow stoppage, etc. It was mentioned that these particular Noodler's are "pH neutral," and that they don't react well with more acidic inks. Nathan had advised another poster to flush a pen out very well with ammonia before loading the Noodler's. In my experience, most other inks develop remarkable flow increases when dish detergent (a surfactant) is added. I wonder if the Noodler's El' Lawrence will perform better if I add a drop of ammonia (a lubricant) to the convertor rather than water (presumably a milder lubricant than ammonia). Have you tried this? I'm thinking about trying it if sufficient boredom sets in and I'm mentally prepared for more frustration with this line of Noodlers.

[meanwhile]

I'd definitely like to see the bulletproof inks with the same sort of performance you get from Zhivago (haven't used the black, so can't comment on that). I've given up on the Socrates, it dries out overnight in most pens and so just isn't worth the hassle. I've watered it down, but that hadn't improved performance. To be honest, my recent experience of Noodlers inks has put me off trying anymore. The Socrates I just cleaned out of a Parker 21 which had been left for a week floated in particles on the top of a bowl of water. I've never seen ink behave like that when cleaning a pen out and I just don't think it's worth the risk of putting it into anymore of my pens.

Carrie,

 

In another thread, similar problems were discussed re Noodler's El' Lawrence, complete flow stoppage, etc. It was mentioned that these particular Noodler's are "pH neutral," and that they don't react well with more acidic inks. Nathan had advised another poster to flush a pen out very well with ammonia before loading the Noodler's. In my experience, most other inks develop remarkable flow increases when dish detergent (a surfactant) is added. I wonder if the Noodler's El' Lawrence will perform better if I add a drop of ammonia (a lubricant) to the convertor rather than water (presumably a milder lubricant than ammonia). Have you tried this? I'm thinking about trying it if sufficient boredom sets in and I'm mentally prepared for more frustration with this line of Noodlers.

Richard Binder recently advised strongly against adding washing up liquid to inks, because of the damage it could to do pens - see writing instruments (he suggested the use of a Tryphon product instead). I think I'd be even less happy adding ammonia - if the ink is acid, the two could combine to release pure chlorine.

 

I think the best policy, given the unpredictability of chemical reactions betweem inks and even more so inks and other, deliberately more reactive substances (which surfacants and bleach definitely are) is clean your pen between inks as throughly as possibly, and flush your pen thoroughly with pure water if you have to clean it with stronger chemicals.

[Blorgy]

I think I'd be even less happy adding ammonia - if the ink is acid, the two could combine to release pure chlorine.

Which chemical reaction produces chlorine ?

[sonia_simone]

Carrie, it's a shame you had a bad experience. I like the Noodler's inks so well that I don't bother with anything else any more for my dark daily inks. Zhivago, Aircorp Blue-Black, and the waterproof plain black are all great inks and the waterproof feature is so useful. I don't like having to fuss with wax candles or the like if I use my pens to write an envelope.

 

Hope you find another Noodler's one of these days that redeems them in your eyes!

[handlebar]

I really like The Sun never Sets.Beautiful ink.

 

Handlebar

[scoutdickens]

I gotta stupid question....why does the ink color vary so much with all the pens?? I just started using a fountain and have been reading these reviews. thanks.