Vintage Conklin Crescent Model Numbering System

[BamaPen]

  On 9/8/2012 at 12:11 AM, crescentfiller said:

I just took a fresh look at the photo of your pen and noticed it has raised threads. I believe that puts it as one of the early screw cap models. If you have a later CF, you will notice that the threads are flush with the barrel. This corresponds with the single-sided imprint on the crescent and the heart - shaped vent. Is there an arrow on the section? Some of these early ones had threaded sections and the arrow kindly tells one which way to turn (like the one found on some caps). This doesn't help with the prefix-suffix question, but it narrows the time frame for production.

 

The pen does indeed have raised threads, and I have read somwhere that they are an indication of early screw cap style. As I recall, Conklin bought another pen company that was already doing flush threads and then changed to that style.

 

The section has no marking at all, but the cap has the word "Unscrew" and an arrow showing how to unscrew it. I guess people needed some instruction as the slip-cap era came to an end.

[BamaPen]

  On 8/14/2011 at 12:48 PM, BamaPen said:

Can someone help me unravel this model code?

 

  Quote

...Just to say, hope you found an answer of some sort by now. It would be really neat, and perhaps helpful, if you would post a close-up of the imprint.

 

The "coding system" was implemented at some point after Conklin was making pens for a bit. And then, the codes work for a time, and then, they, uh, don't. Just sayin' that if you have a pen with an imprint that doesn't fit what I outlined earlier in this thread, your imprint is outside that particular "system" Conklin used, and your pen is not necessarily identifiable in a perfect "P means blah 45 means blahblah and S wraps it up" kind of way. Fortunately there are other ways to try to date your pen, as you already know...

 

Honestly, I wasn't trying to cast any doubt on the numbering scheme that you've decoded. It works perfectly for all my Conklins except this one. You are probably right: this is an earlier pen - the raised cap threads indicate that - and Conklin's code system was probably different at that time. I was just hoping that someone had a clue about such an earlier code scheme.

[jde]

  On 9/8/2012 at 9:45 PM, BamaPen said:

Honestly, I wasn't trying to cast any doubt on the numbering scheme that you've decoded. It works perfectly for all my Conklins except this one. You are probably right: this is an earlier pen - the raised cap threads indicate that - and Conklin's code system was probably different at that time. I was just hoping that someone had a clue about such an earlier code scheme.

 

 

Didn't think you were. Was just 'splaining and tryin' to be helpful to your search. I didn't decode anything, btw, just shared what I found in my own pursuit of information.

 

 

[lazard]

Hello to all:

 

I think I can help a litlle with my theory and to try to extend information on the already interesting published information:

We know 5 imprints (atach photo):

 

TYPE 0 (1902 and before)

3 models:

Regular

Large

Extralarge

Basing on promotional writings of this date. I dont know, I dont have not seen, imprint of this date. I´ll thank info about this.

 

TYPE I (aprox 1903 to 1906)3 lines imprint Capital (typography 1 line)

CONKLIN´S SELF FILLING PEN (without scrip between SELF and FILLING)

TOLEDO.OHIO

PAT.MCH.17 91.OCT.29.01.DEC.1.03

Slip cap. Crescent without imprint. Only two orifices in cap, one of them in the top. Old Feed NOT in the shape of lance. Model imprint type S 2 (127 mm. nib 2), S 3 (140 mm. nib 3) , S4... and

My theory about this period star in 1903 obeys, obviously, the imprint of 1903 for what it can not be previous.

The theory about this period end in 1906 -for lack of other information- is based on adds, so ads YOUR EYE 1903 and TWAIN 1904 we can see TOLEDO, O.. In the 1905 ad THREE SIMPLE MOTIONS TO FILL and other we see TOLEDO, OHIO and HOW THE CONKLIN PEN FILLS ITSELF 1906 ad and following ads it will appear already from now as Toledo, Ohio, U.S.A.

 

TYPE II

CONKLIN´S SELF-FILLING PEN (aprox 1906 to 1909)3 lines imprint Capital (typography 1 line)

TOLEDO.OHIO.U.S.A.

PAT.MCH.17 91.OCT.29.01.DEC.1.03

The model imprint type understands the previous and the definitive one as 3NL. Only one side of the Crescent have imprint, CRESCENT FILLER TRADE MARK.

Afther 1906 by U.S.A.y before imprint "NON-LEAKABLE-.

 

TYPE III

CONKLIN´S SELF-FILLING PEN (aprox 1909 to 1910)4 lines imprint Capital (typography 1 line)

NON - LEAKABLE

TOLEDO.OHIO.U.S.A.

PAT.MCH.17 91.OCT.29.01.DEC.1.03

In the catalog of 1909 appears for the first time the screw cap y the Non-Leakable concep, with inner cap and screw in the exterior of the section (curiously 25 years late the first Parker Imperial and Sheaffer'S Crest would be copied this screw type).

The theory bases his end in 1910 for the advent of the new imprint.

 

TYPE IV

Conklin´s CRESCENT-FILLER (aprox 1910 to 1920) 3 lines imprint Capital and small letters (typography Conklin´s 2 lines)

TOLEDO,OHIO,U.S.A.

PAT.MCH.17,91 - OCT.29,01 - DEC.1,03 (It becomes more legible and understandable)

Based star in 1910 by:

Precedent. In the catalog of February, 1909 already it figures "Conklin´s" with small letters but with an approximate typography, not the one that was imposed finally

1. Ads: Dec, 20, 1909. Daily Capital Journal, capital letters. Ad "The business pen" 1910 capital letters. "The entire writting world is praising" ad 1910 firts with Conklin´s in small letters. "Fill itself in 4 seconds" ad 1910 and following in small.

2. "The entire writting world is praising" ad 1910 and "Fill itself in 4 seconds" ad 1910 are the first ads where we can see de Crescent with CRESCENT FILLER TRADE MARK.

Other milestones of this period:

1916. Clip CONKLIN PAT. FEB 15 1916 (patent 1,171,624)

1917. Clip CONKLIN patent pending

1917. The concept non - leakable and the suffixes NL dissapear - in the imprint since all fp are with screw. It remains the P for the short model of 4 " (really 4 1/4 "). 1917 Catalog.

1918. Clip CONKLIN PAT.MAY-28-1918 (patent 1,267,575)

 

TYPE V

Conklin CRESCENT-FILLER (de 1920 to 1925) dissapear the genitive.

TOLEDO,OHIO,U.S.A.

PAT.MCH.17,91 - OCT.29,01 - DEC.1,03

Variations: Crescent imprint two sides. "Conklin" one and "Crescent moon" another. The Crescent Moon logo substitutes the logo of the inkstand.

Based star in 1920;

1920 Catalog appear Conklin without genitive and Crescent Moon´s logo.

Jan 1920 add "chek signed" with genitive and inkstand logo. 1920 Graduation ad with genitive and inkstand logo. And May, 22, 1920 the same ad in Saturday Evening Post without genitive and Moon´s logo and Jul, 17, 1920 "Train on station" SEP´s ad without genitive and Moon engraved into Crescent.

 

 

So we might say that 3 ways of numbering Crescent exist.

 

1) Before 1903. The original one, that I do not know, with Regular, Large and Extra Large.

2) 1903 to 1906. With prefixes S and P and the number of nib size.

3) 1906 to 1917. With nib size and suffixes NL for regular or PNL for short-pocket model all with screw cap. I dont know imprint of fp with slip cap this years.

4) 1917 to 1925. With nib size and suffixes for regular and P for short-pocket model.

 

Please, considers that a barrel marked with 25P, for example, was serving for the models 25 regular, 251 with 1/4" cap band, 252 with 1/2" cap band, 253 with chatelaine or 254 with ring tips. So the other barrel as 20, f.e. serves for de model 21, 21C (with clip) 22, 22C.

The model 316 and 318 have 2 bands in barrel, not in the cap, 316 of 3/16" and 318 with 3/8".

 

I hope that it is a small help to complete the previous interesting posts.

 

Regards from Spain.

 

Ramon Campos

[lazard]

  On 11/7/2012 at 1:18 PM, lazard said:

Hello to all:

 

I think I can help a litlle with my theory and to try to extend information on the already interesting published information:

We know 5 imprints (atach photo):

 

TYPE 0 (1902 and before)

3 models:

Regular

Large

Extralarge

Basing on promotional writings of this date. I dont know, I dont have not seen, imprint of this date. I´ll thank info about this.

 

TYPE I (aprox 1903 to 1906)3 lines imprint Capital (typography 1 line)

CONKLIN´S SELF FILLING PEN (without scrip between SELF and FILLING)

TOLEDO.OHIO

PAT.MCH.17 91.OCT.29.01.DEC.1.03

Slip cap. Crescent without imprint. Only two orifices in cap, one of them in the top. Old Feed NOT in the shape of lance. Model imprint type S 2 (127 mm. nib 2), S 3 (140 mm. nib 3) , S4... and

My theory about this period star in 1903 obeys, obviously, the imprint of 1903 for what it can not be previous.

The theory about this period end in 1906 -for lack of other information- is based on adds, so ads YOUR EYE 1903 and TWAIN 1904 we can see TOLEDO, O.. In the 1905 ad THREE SIMPLE MOTIONS TO FILL and other we see TOLEDO, OHIO and HOW THE CONKLIN PEN FILLS ITSELF 1906 ad and following ads it will appear already from now as Toledo, Ohio, U.S.A.

 

TYPE II

CONKLIN´S SELF-FILLING PEN (aprox 1906 to 1909)3 lines imprint Capital (typography 1 line)

TOLEDO.OHIO.U.S.A.

PAT.MCH.17 91.OCT.29.01.DEC.1.03

The model imprint type understands the previous and the definitive one as 3NL. Only one side of the Crescent have imprint, CRESCENT FILLER TRADE MARK.

Afther 1906 by U.S.A.y before imprint "NON-LEAKABLE-.

 

TYPE III

CONKLIN´S SELF-FILLING PEN (aprox 1909 to 1910)4 lines imprint Capital (typography 1 line)

NON - LEAKABLE

TOLEDO.OHIO.U.S.A.

PAT.MCH.17 91.OCT.29.01.DEC.1.03

In the catalog of 1909 appears for the first time the screw cap y the Non-Leakable concep, with inner cap and screw in the exterior of the section (curiously 25 years late the first Parker Imperial and Sheaffer'S Crest would be copied this screw type).

The theory bases his end in 1910 for the advent of the new imprint.

 

TYPE IV

Conklin´s CRESCENT-FILLER (aprox 1910 to 1920) 3 lines imprint Capital and small letters (typography Conklin´s 2 lines)

TOLEDO,OHIO,U.S.A.

PAT.MCH.17,91 - OCT.29,01 - DEC.1,03 (It becomes more legible and understandable)

Based star in 1910 by:

Precedent. In the catalog of February, 1909 already it figures "Conklin´s" with small letters but with an approximate typography, not the one that was imposed finally

1. Ads: Dec, 20, 1909. Daily Capital Journal, capital letters. Ad "The business pen" 1910 capital letters. "The entire writting world is praising" ad 1910 firts with Conklin´s in small letters. "Fill itself in 4 seconds" ad 1910 and following in small.

2. "The entire writting world is praising" ad 1910 and "Fill itself in 4 seconds" ad 1910 are the first ads where we can see de Crescent with CRESCENT FILLER TRADE MARK.

Other milestones of this period:

1916. Clip CONKLIN PAT. FEB 15 1916 (patent 1,171,624)

1917. Clip CONKLIN patent pending

1917. The concept non - leakable and the suffixes NL dissapear - in the imprint since all fp are with screw. It remains the P for the short model of 4 " (really 4 1/4 "). 1917 Catalog.

1918. Clip CONKLIN PAT.MAY-28-1918 (patent 1,267,575)

 

TYPE V

Conklin CRESCENT-FILLER (de 1920 to 1925) dissapear the genitive.

TOLEDO,OHIO,U.S.A.

PAT.MCH.17,91 - OCT.29,01 - DEC.1,03

Variations: Crescent imprint two sides. "Conklin" one and "Crescent moon" another. The Crescent Moon logo substitutes the logo of the inkstand.

Based star in 1920;

1920 Catalog appear Conklin without genitive and Crescent Moon´s logo.

Jan 1920 add "chek signed" with genitive and inkstand logo. 1920 Graduation ad with genitive and inkstand logo. And May, 22, 1920 the same ad in Saturday Evening Post without genitive and Moon´s logo and Jul, 17, 1920 "Train on station" SEP´s ad without genitive and Moon engraved into Crescent.

 

 

So we might say that 3 ways of numbering Crescent exist.

 

1) Before 1903. The original one, that I do not know, with Regular, Large and Extra Large.

2) 1903 to 1906. With prefixes S and P and the number of nib size.

3) 1906 to 1917. With nib size and suffixes NL for regular or PNL for short-pocket model all with screw cap. I dont know imprint of fp with slip cap this years.

4) 1917 to 1925. With nib size and suffixes for regular and P for short-pocket model.

 

Please, considers that a barrel marked with 25P, for example, was serving for the models 25 regular, 251 with 1/4" cap band, 252 with 1/2" cap band, 253 with chatelaine or 254 with ring tips. So the other barrel as 20, f.e. serves for de model 21, 21C (with clip) 22, 22C.

The model 316 and 318 have 2 bands in barrel, not in the cap, 316 of 3/16" and 318 with 3/8".

 

I hope that it is a small help to complete the previous interesting posts.

 

Regards from Spain.

 

Ramon Campos

[BamaPen]

Thank you very much, Ramon. This is quite helpful.

 

John

[lazard]

  On 8/14/2011 at 12:48 PM, BamaPen said:

Conklin experts, I have a Crescent Filler with a number imprint that does not seem to fit the schemes described above. Can you help me interpret this?

 

The imprint is P45S. The nib is a Conklin Toledo 4. The crescent itself is not imprinted on one side, which seems to indicate a pre-1918 manufacture date, according to other discussions on FPN (https://www.fountainpennetwork.com/forum/index.php?/topic/196658-dating-a-conklin-crescent-filler/) When I removed the section, a very old petrified ink sac was more or less intact inside, which would seem to indicate that the crescent and barrel are original to each other. Here's a picture of the pen:

 

 

Based on the above discussion and my other Conklins,

• the 4 indicates a size 4 pen - this is consistent with the nib imprint
  
• the 5 indicates a slim model - it is slimmer than my standard model 40, so this is consistent
  

 

But the P and S confuse me.

• In earlier models, the P as a suffix indicates a short, or "pocket" model - but this is a prefix.
  
• In later models, an S as a suffix indicates the same thing - a short, or "pocket" model
  

 

This pen definitely is a short model. It has a screw-on cap, so it is not a "slip cap" version. Nowhere in the discussion above is P mentioned as a prefix.

 

So, the crescent seems to indicate an early pen, while the S suffix seems to indicate a late one, and the P as a prefix is just confusing.

 

Can someone help me unravel this model code?

 

I believe that you have not well-read. It is not P45S, but P452 that it is totally coherent with what I see: P for short-pocket a 4 nib in a holder 5 with a cap band of 1/2". I would bet that it is P452. Regards

[BamaPen]

  On 11/7/2012 at 3:01 PM, lazard said:

  On 8/14/2011 at 12:48 PM, BamaPen said:

Conklin experts, I have a Crescent Filler with a number imprint that does not seem to fit the schemes described above. Can you help me interpret this?

 

The imprint is P45S. The nib is a Conklin Toledo 4. The crescent itself is not imprinted on one side, which seems to indicate a pre-1918 manufacture date, according to other discussions on FPN (https://www.fountainpennetwork.com/forum/index.php?/topic/196658-dating-a-conklin-crescent-filler/) When I removed the section, a very old petrified ink sac was more or less intact inside, which would seem to indicate that the crescent and barrel are original to each other. Here's a picture of the pen:

 

 

Based on the above discussion and my other Conklins,

• the 4 indicates a size 4 pen - this is consistent with the nib imprint
  
• the 5 indicates a slim model - it is slimmer than my standard model 40, so this is consistent
  

 

But the P and S confuse me.

• In earlier models, the P as a suffix indicates a short, or "pocket" model - but this is a prefix.
  
• In later models, an S as a suffix indicates the same thing - a short, or "pocket" model
  

 

This pen definitely is a short model. It has a screw-on cap, so it is not a "slip cap" version. Nowhere in the discussion above is P mentioned as a prefix.

 

So, the crescent seems to indicate an early pen, while the S suffix seems to indicate a late one, and the P as a prefix is just confusing.

 

Can someone help me unravel this model code?

 

I believe that you have not well-read. It is not P45S, but P452 that it is totally coherent with what I see: P for short-pocket a 4 nib in a holder 5 with a cap band of 1/2". I would bet that it is P452. Regards

The last character in the imprint is definitely an S, not a 2. But, the imprint appears to have an overstrike and is not totally clear. The first character is definitely a P, then there is a 4, but there is another character that partly overlays the right half of the 4 and it appears to be a 5. Finally there is the S.

 

So, the imprint is either P45S or it could have been P4S with the 5 being an error. Or, it could have even been deliberately remarked from a 5 to a 4 or the opposite.

 

Note in the picture that the pen has the earlier style raised threads on the barrel, which can help in the dating process.

[lazard]

This fountain could be P452, P (Pocket I can see it in the photo)+ nib 4 + holder 5 + 2 for 1/2" cap band. In this case imprint = P45 or 45P but we, for diferent nib and holder, only know 34 (nib 3 wiht holder 4) or 54 (nib 5 with holder 4). So I think is not P452. so,

The model is P42, P (Pocket I can see it in the photo)+ nib 4 + Nothing because same holder + 2 for 1/2" cap band. In this case imprint = P4

 

Nevertheless an overprinting with one 5S(*) (nib 5 in the same holder-barrel with slip cap) is possible in the barrel but we would be speaking about an isolated case. Also this fountain pen might be that originally it had another cap and us confusing this one, but the opinion about photo it is 42 + Pocket. = P42 before circa 1910.

 

There is alone an attempt of explaining something unusual -smile-. No obstantly I would like to see a good photography of the "P45S"

 

In any case to assure the date we would have to see another face of the crescent that I do not see in the photo and the barrel imprint.

 

Regards

 

Ramon

 

 

 

 

(*) Error in imprint is possible, recently I have seen a Vacumatic with the number of the year and the dots "head down" in relation with the imprint.

[lazard]

Remember, one thing is the model and another the imprint in the barrel.

 

20 in barrel serves for model model with nib 2 but diferent caps. 20P in barrel serves for model short 20P, 21P (3/16" cap band), 22P (3/8" cap band), 23P (chatelaine cap) or 24P (Ring Tips) because de barrel is the same only change the cap.

[newlife]

Hello everybody!

 

I just came upon this thread wondering what model my Conklin Crescent is. It's a simple BCHR pen and the only engraving on the shaft reads Tradenote Conklin Toledo Ohio USA. The nib is a Toledo 2. The pen measures 13,6 cm when capped. The cap top is almost flat, just a little rounded and it is threaded. But - on the opposite end of the pen three numbers seem having been engraved by hand! They read 15869 16707 361. Very very tiny numbers I could never write by hand.

 

Do these numbers indicate anything about this pen?

 

Thanks for your help!

 

Klaus

[Lazard 20]

  On 5/23/2015 at 1:57 PM, newlife said:

Hello everybody!

 

I just came upon this thread wondering what model my Conklin Crescent is. It's a simple BCHR pen and the only engraving on the shaft reads Tradenote Conklin Toledo Ohio USA. The nib is a Toledo 2. The pen measures 13,6 cm when capped. The cap top is almost flat, just a little rounded and it is threaded. But - on the opposite end of the pen three numbers seem having been engraved by hand! They read 15869 16707 361. Very very tiny numbers I could never write by hand.

 

Do these numbers indicate anything about this pen?

 

Thanks for your help!

 

Klaus

 

Hello, is it possible some photos?

[newlife]

Here you go . . .

 

 

http://i36.photobucket.com/albums/e1/newlife53/Conklin%20Crescent%20unknown/IMG_0441%20ed_zps0ubujl2b.jpg

 

 

 

 

http://i36.photobucket.com/albums/e1/newlife53/Conklin%20Crescent%20unknown/IMG_0440%20ed_zpsizdvrzrm.jpg

[Lazard 20]

Your fountain pen, by proportions and #2 nib, is a Crescent 20C that you can see in Conklin catalogs during 1924-1931. Below you are a photo as this model was presented in the catalogs of the time. Regarding numbers engraved by hand on the barrel I do not think them are directly related to Conklin.

 

http://s15.postimg.org/ba9z1c83v/Conklin_Crescent_20_C_Lazard.jpg

Edited June 15, 2015 by Lazard 20

[newlife]

Hello Lazard 20!

 

Thanks for your catalog photo! Did you have in mind that my pen has no clip but just two breather holes? Maybe there were different versions with different numbering? Anyway, thanks for helping me date my Crescent, I really dig the nib and, of course, most of all, the crescent bar filling system, which I find easier to handle than lever fillers.

 

P.S. David Nishimura thought the numbers might be a sign for an export model, but he wasn't quite sure. Mr. Alfonso Mur obviously could not take his time for answering my question as David had suggested.

 

Klaus

Edited June 15, 2015 by newlife

[Vintagepens]

I'm afraid you misinterpreted my response -- the markings that might be export-related were *not* the ones scratched into the end of the barrel.

Those hand-scratched numbers are most likely work inventory numbers put there by a repairman. Such numbers are commonly found on the inside of watches and on jewelry. John Mottishaw used to put them on the inside of nibs he worked on, but I don't think he has done that now for a number of years.

[newlife]

Hello everybody!

 

I'm glad to tell you that Alfonso Mur finally did reply my email and asked for some photos which sent him of course. Let's wait for his opinion, I'm gladly looking forward to his answer which I will post here!

 

Klaus