Is Noodler's Black a good newbie ink?

[Chthulhu]

I don't have that sort of relationship with my pens. <G>

[ofpwriter]

Okay, my two cents...

 

First of all, I voted yes. The ink (I'm basing my opinion on using Polar Black for a quite some time and reading this forum since the beginning of this year) is as easy to use as the other inks I have experience in (Pelikan blue and Quink black, -red). It is actually much easier to wash off when you get it on your hands. Pens are easy to clean, as are other things not made of cellulose or cotton based things. ... Sure, it's a thick ink. So? It gives a really intense - and permanent - mark on whatever you use it for. Hmm... that's kind of the point, right? So I don't mind if it dries in a pen quicker than some other ones; I use the pens I have filled almost daily. (And for what's it's worth, I just tested this Manuscript calligraphy thing that's been lying around for weeks unused: it started to write right away.)

 

...

 

But my main point, and what's been bugging me in certain topics, is, that don't exaggerate things, people. Some posts can be read almost as personal attacks against the whole brand. And I feel that I wasted much time, when I first (stuck to the "safe") used the well known brands and only hoped to score something that's actually at least waterproof. (This was the only thing that was bugging me when I started using fountain pens.) Eventually I had read enough, to see the light and placed my orders accordingly. I have no doubt that I'll buy some nano carbon inks eventually, and if only Private Reserve had something of interest to me I'd use it in a heartbeat.

 

...end of two cents.

 

-O

 

Percentages at the moment: Yes/No, 76/24.

 

Edited to add the score at the time.

Edited August 12, 2009 by ofpwriter

[ethernautrix]

My frank opinion is there is no such thing as newbie ink.

 

The only caveat I would give anyone using a fountain pen who might not know is don't use India ink. Period.

[HenryLouis]

You will regret getting it all over your bedsheets... I know I did.....

 

Funny, I've done that as well... I left my inked 2000 on my bed at a weird angle that it started to collect ink. Good thing it was a dark cover.

[JRodriguez]

I've never had this issue myself, but I know that some people have experienced skipping and minor clogging with Noodler's Black. I use Noodler's Black all the time, but I have personally seen that if left in a pen for more than about a week, little sediment pieces accumulate, which only come out through leaving the pen filled with water and with the nib submerged in water for a few hours. This would be my hesitation with recommending it to folks new to fountain pens.

[bardharlock]

44 people say, "Yes, Noodler's Black is a good newbie ink."

13 people say, "No, Noodler's Black is not a good newbie ink."

 

I read a post like ofpwriter from Finland above and feel bad for him. He tried other inks and they did not do what he needed them to because he listened to the fear mongering that goes along with Noodler's inks. He might have given up, but finally figured out that it was generally the same few voices saying Noodler's was not good while Noodler's following kept growing.

 

I look at my own experience in which I would only have a disposable fountain pen as a novelty because I am a pen lover if it were not for Noodler's inks. Most of my writing has to be permanent. Bulletproof or Eternal inks are just about all I use. I sometimes write in Baystate Blue simply because I love the color, but only in my "disposable" writing. I would not be a regular fountain pen user (read addict) if not for Noodler's.

 

Personally, from my experience, the people that have experienced problems with Noodler's are the anomaly and not the norm. Noodler's was the first ink I ever used and it is now the only ink I ever use. I think a very vocal minority do a great disservice to the fountain pen community at large. I am not the most fastidious fountain pen user ever either. I would consider myself a bit below average when it comes to cleanliness. My wife would say I am an out and out disorganized slob.

 

Now to address some of the specific arguments mentioned in this thread:

 

*Noodler's is messy when it gets on you or your clothes. Yes, so are most other inks. My mom hated my habit of drawing on my clothes in Jr. High School because she needed a few washes to get out that darn ballpoint ink.

 

*Noodler's is hard to acquire. No. It's not. I can get it delivered to my door without getting out of this chair. The order process takes less time than getting on my shoes, finding my keys and wallet, telling my wife I am leaving and getting the car out of the garage and driveway, much less driving to the store to go inside, buy the ink and then come all of the way home... how is that difficult?

 

*Noodler's inks are not all created equal; some flow differently. Yes, so do many other brands of inks have different flow in different pens on different paper, even within the same brand.

 

*Noodler's is expensive. What? Quink retail price for a 2 oz bottle is $12. Compare that to Noodler's Black 3 oz. bottle which retails for $13.75. Noodler's is retail priced at $13.75 for 88.7ml. Now compare that to Waterman ink which retails for $12 in a 50ml bottle. In fairness, I compared retail pricing for all of these. Certain dealers do give better deals on certain brands, Noodler's included.

 

*Noodler's is hard to deal with. That argument just doesn't really fly with me. Again, it is the ink I started with. Fountain Pens in general require more care than any other kind of commonly used pen most people are familiar with. If you are going to use a fountain pen, you are expected to do a few things, like take care of your pen and give it a flush now and again. It's not difficult, and if a slob like me can do it, anyone can.

 

That's how I see it. Noodler's is, hands down, the best and only ink for me. I started on it as a newbie. I have started others on it as well. I've not had a single pen clog, skip, dry up, explode, or create a quantum singularity on my desk while using Noodler's Black. It's my main ink for my most precious writings. I trust it in my most expensive to least expensive pens. I am glad you made this poll and thread for us, so we can voice our opinions here and maybe not sidetrack newbie questions later on, so thanks!

 

Edited to get current count updated at time of posting.

Edited August 12, 2009 by bardharlock

[ajcoleman]

I voted yes. Noodler's black is a great ink, works great in the pens I have tried it with, and works well on most any old paper. In that respect, I think it would be better than trying to convince someone that "this pen writes really well... Once you get some decent paper on which it doesn't feather and bleed through you will really like it." That said, I am sure that there are LOTS of inks that would work well for a new FP user.

[Mrsal]

yes, this is a very nice ink.

[Geoff V]

I find it a well behaved ink which works well on a variety of paper.

 

Its permanence comes from reacting with the cellulose in paper. Be VERY careful not to spill

it on natural plant fibers (cotton, linen, etc). It does wash off your hands well.

 

John has hit the nail on the head. These characteristics are what makes Noodlers Permanent Black an ideal ink for newbies. This ink is an excellent performer and it is highly educational, inculcating good habits in new users through the caution that must be exercised while using it. What you learn through using Noodlers Black should become standard practice when handling any other ink.

[Nero]

Based on my experience with Heart of Darkness I will not recommend it. And besides, Noodler's black is more expensive than other black inks that I can buy here in town (in Germany). Noodler's inks are only available via Mailorder making them expensive compared to local available Pelikan, Waterman, Montblanc or Quink. And not all fountain pen users are willing to order ink in the internet. My friends and co-workers think that I am extravagant doing so.

Edited August 16, 2009 by Nero

[bardharlock]

Based on my experience with Heart of Darkness I will not recommend it. And besides, Noodler's black is more expensive than other black inks that I can buy here in town (in Germany). Noodler's inks are only available via Mailorder making them expensive compared to local available Pelikan, Waterman, Montblanc or Quink. And not all fountain pen users are willing to order ink in the internet. My friends and co-workers think that I am extravagant doing so.

 

The question was about Noodler's Black, not Heart of Darkness. Do you have any experience with the ink about which the question was asked?

[Nero]

The question was about Noodler's Black, not Heart of Darkness. Do you have any experience with the ink about which the question was asked?

No. I don't have pure "Noodler's black". That is why I didn't wrote my opinion some time ago. But given the fact that the original poster wrote this later:

 

I'm basing my opinion on using Polar Black for a quite some time and reading this forum since the beginning of this year

I thought that he was asking about Noodler's black inks in general and not just about the one specific kind of black. If the poll maker thinks that my comment is inappropriate for this thread then I will remove it or ask an administrator to do so.

 

Edited to add: the pricing and mailorder situation is the same for all Noodler's inks here in Germany. That alone is for me important enough to not recommend the ink for a newbie.

Edited August 16, 2009 by Nero

[bardharlock]

Edited to add: the pricing and mailorder situation is the same for all Noodler's inks here in Germany. That alone is for me important enough to not recommend the ink for a newbie.

 

Now my curiosity is piqued. What if Noodler's Black behaved better than any ink you've ever used and someone could afford to spend the money on it? Does that make it not good for a newbie, or just not good for your budget?

[Nero]

Now my curiosity is piqued. What if Noodler's Black behaved better than any ink you've ever used and someone could afford to spend the money on it? Does that make it not good for a newbie, or just not good for your budget?

 

Well, I spent several $100 in Noodler's inks, so budget was for me never a restriction. I am willing to pay money for inks that I like and I paid without regret "big" money for Sailor's Kiwaguro, Omas Vespucci or Parker Penman for example. But I would not recommend those inks for a newbie either. They are expensive and difficult to obtain. We have a relative big pen store here in the city and I have taken several newbies to fountain pens there. We decided to go with a non too expensive standard pen, like a Pelikan M200 or a Lamy, and with cheap but good inks like Pelikan or Waterman. Later, some of them liked writing with fountain pens at school/university and decided to upgrade to fancier pens (like the Pelikan City series) and to more/other ink makers. At that moment I showed them some inks from my collection and told them where they could order them online.

 

In my opinion the answer to the question in this poll is relative and should be seen that way. Price is an important part of the equation and regretably Noodler's inks are very expensive here. It is difficult for me to recommend to somebody who doesn't earn money, like a schoolboy or an university beginner, to pay several times more for a bottle of Noodler's ink than for a bottle of Pelikan. I will mention the diffent ink makers, but I will not recommend all of them. On the other side, I did order together with some co-workers Parker Penman ink from Greece. But they are not newbies and they now what to expect. The same things goes to pens. Should I recommend a MB 149 or a Sailor KoP to a newbie? They write much better than many cheaper pens, but for people taking their first steps with fountain pens I will recommend more conservative and affordable "beginner" pens.

Edited August 16, 2009 by Nero

[bardharlock]

I see. So the performance of the ink does not factor into your decision making. I think that is important to note, so thanks for letting people know.

 

Oh, I just realized that you asked a question and I did not answer it. If someone had a budget for a fountain pen that was inclusive of the price of the pens you mentioned and you felt they were good pens, yes, I would expect someone to recommend them. I don't always recommend Safaris for new users, just the ones looking for an entry level pen and that are budget conscious. I'd gladly recommend a Sailor KoP to someone who was willing to spend the money for one because they are great pens, are likely to hold their value pretty well, and those Sailor nibs write like a dream. Especially with a good ink like Noodler's BP black!

Edited August 16, 2009 by bardharlock

[Nero]

I see. So the performance of the ink does not factor into your decision making. I think that is important to note, so thanks for letting people know.

 

The performance of the ink does factor into my decision, but it is not the only factor. If that were the case I would recommend Sailor Kiwaguro first. But we are discussing about a recommendation for a newbie and in that case, as I wrote before, I can't recommend Noodler's. That doesn't automatically mean that I am bashing Noodler's inks. It is just that I consider them not the best choice in my situation for the given task in this thread. Perhaps the poll should be enhanced to differentiate what kind of newbie is minded. But the newbies that I deal with are all young people with a very restricted budget. I am sorry, but I have to take that into consideration.

 

Edit to add:

 

If someone had a budget for a fountain pen that was inclusive of the price of the pens you mentioned and you felt they were good pens, yes, I would expect someone to recommend them. I don't always recommend Safaris for new users, just the ones looking for an entry level pen and that are budget conscious.

 

Well, that is my point. In my case the newbies belong to the second group, so that I have to take the monetary restrictions into consideration too. The performance difference between Noodler's and other inks like Waterman or Pelikan are in my opinion not that big. I don't feel like I am "cheating" the newbie for no recommending them.

 

Further edit: Here are prices for inks in Germany: http://www.missing-pen.de/shop/lieferprogx.php?XOption=Tinte . Please note that I can get Waterman, Pelikan, Lamy etc. even cheaper locally, without paying extra for shipping. I can only get Noodler's in Germany from this store (as far as I know).

Edited August 16, 2009 by Nero

[Chthulhu]

Hello, I'm a (relative) n00b, and I like my Noodler's Bulletproof Black. It works very nicely in my $10 Dollar demonstrator (fine nib) with just a little bit of nib creep. It doesn't bleed, feather, spontaneously catch fire, or yell at me when used on decent-quality paper. It makes a nice, clean, dark charcoal-colored line that suits my tastes beautifully. I would recommend it to anyone with at least half a brain, steady hands, and an appreciation for things that behave as advertised; I just make sure I don't get it on my clothes.

Edited August 16, 2009 by Chthulhu

[bardharlock]

The performance of the ink does factor into my decision, but it is not the only factor. If that were the case I would recommend Sailor Kiwaguro first.

 

And you see, that's why I am confused. You admit you have never used Noodler's Black and still claim its performance factors into the decision and that if price were no object you would still recommend Sailor Nano Carbon first. That just doesn't sound logical to me. You also plainly state that the price alone would keep you from recommending it to a newbie.

 

Do you not see how that sounds a bit unfair and like you have some ulterior motive behind your reasons for disliking Noodler's black? And that's the issue that always seems to come up around this topic and why so many of us are sick to death of the people who crawl out of the woodwork to badmouth Noodler's and to spread outright lies whenever someone asks an honest question about an ink that would suit their purposes when all they are asking for would be met by Noodler's Black. I just think full disclosure is important, like "I've never used it but..." Hearsay and irrational dislikes for a product never even tried shouldn't be used in fora such as this to dissuade anyone from finding the product they might actually like. Perhaps I am just old-fashioned in that regard.

Edited August 16, 2009 by bardharlock

[JDlugosz]

When I spread the word, I give out a vial of PR ink with the cheap pen. The main reason is that it's completely washable, and easy to just rinse out the pen if it ends up sitting unused and drys out. I expect a few messes getting the hang of filling, mistakes in touching the tip, learning to rinse out the cap if ink gets in it, etc. from a beginner, just like I did.

[ofpwriter]

The question was about Noodler's Black, not Heart of Darkness. Do you have any experience with the ink about which the question was asked?

No. I don't have pure "Noodler's black". That is why I didn't wrote my opinion some time ago. But given the fact that the original poster wrote this later:

 

I'm basing my opinion on using Polar Black for a quite some time and reading this forum since the beginning of this year

I thought that he was asking about Noodler's black inks in general and not just about the one specific kind of black. If the poll maker thinks that my comment is inappropriate for this thread then I will remove it or ask an administrator to do so.

 

Edited to add: the pricing and mailorder situation is the same for all Noodler's inks here in Germany. That alone is for me important enough to not recommend the ink for a newbie.

I wanted to see a conversation around the subject: controversial inks - or something along those lines... No need to remove anything, keep 'em coming. Poll is for regular Noodler's Black; to try to keep it clear and simple (possible to carry out in a way that might show some results in the end).

 

I feel that Polar Black is very similar, possibly little more 'high maintenance' than the regular black. This is from reading around. I decided to get Polar Black instead of the regular one, though the decision was close - now even more so, 'cause soon I need to order more inks. :hmm1: But naturally it is necessary to explain reasons behind any opinion.

 

I didn't think about the price as a factor. Only ink that I can get from a store here is Pelikan Royal Blue, and ordering online means that Noodler's is actually one of the cheapest inks: and this has been stated many times on the forum. But I don't mind if you guys take the price as a factor too.

 

-O