Pelikan Numbering System

[jkenton]

In light of some recent insistence about the ACTUAL number of the new Brown Tortoise reissue, I wondered: Is there a rhyme or reason to the Pelikan model numbering system?

 

Here's what my visual experience tells me:

 

x00 default arrangement, standard (black, red, green blue) color with black cap and gold "furniture."

X05 standard (black, red, green blue) color with same solid colored cap and silver "furniture"

x25 solid color with silver cap and silver "furniture." These sometimes have transparents, or non-standard colors.

x50 solid color with vermeil cap and gold "furniture."

 

The only example I have seen of an x15 had a non solid color, black cap and silver "furniture."

 

The tortoises I have seen have all been listed as M400 (if recent production) and had matching caps and filler knobs. In the case of the white tortiose, white cap and knob.

 

So, is there more to it? Am I wrong? 'splain please?

[zabo]

From your analysis it looks like this:

Mxyz

x) first number identifies the size (1, 2, 4, 6, 7, 8, 9, 10)

y) second number identifies the material (0=acrylic, 1=steel, 2=silver, 5=vermeil)

z) third number identifies the trim (0=gold, 5=silver)

Edited June 8, 2009 by zabo

[1000km]

I think that between you you've cracked it. Good work!

[Richard]

As you might expect, there are exceptions.

 

By the analyses above, this M450 should be solid in color:

 

http://www.richardspens.com/images/pens/pelikan/zoomed/M450.jpg

 

And this M620 should have silver furniture:

 

http://www.richardspens.com/images/pens/pelikan/zoomed/M620_piazza_navona.jpg

 

And this M700 should be a different size -- it's the same size as an M400:

 

http://www.richardspens.com/images/pens/pelikan/zoomed/M700_toledo.jpg

 

 

 

[DeScribe]

  zabo said:

From you analysis it looks like this:

Mxyz

x) first number identifies the size (1, 2, 4, 6, 7, 8, 10)

y) second number identifies the material (0=acrylic, 1=steel, 2=silver, 5=vermeil)

z) third number identifies the trim (0=gold, 5=silver)

 

Cool. Arnoldo. You have kind of summarised everything in 3 lines. Well done!

 

[zabo]

  Richard said:

As you might expect, there are exceptions.

 

By the analyses above, this M450 should be solid in color:

 

http://www.richardspens.com/images/pens/pelikan/zoomed/M450.jpg

 

And this M620 should have silver furniture:

 

http://www.richardspens.com/images/pens/pelikan/zoomed/M620_piazza_navona.jpg

 

And this M700 should be a different size -- it's the same size as an M400:

 

http://www.richardspens.com/images/pens/pelikan/zoomed/M700_toledo.jpg

Good points Richard.

Can you think of a way to interpret these exceptions?

 

M450

I was suggesting y number being material, not colour, and the M450 has y=5=vermeil and the cap is indeed vermeil, though the body is acrylic encapsulated seashells...

Maybe is the more precious material that leads...

 

M700

It's acrylic overlayed.

Maybe the x number it's the model and not the size.

 

M620

Originally the 600 size was the same as the 400, and this may support the idea that x is the model and not the size number.

Maybe the y=2 number denotes "special edition" pens (limited in production but not numbered), and not the material?

What about the y=5 then? :hmm1:

[diplomat]

I think the reality is more difficoult than any model we can set to represent it. What about the M750 being silver and the M760 being gold? And the Y=4 what is for (M640)? And what about the M415 being gold furniture and plastic barrel?

 

My guess is the only rule is the first number for the model (don't forget there is x=9 too)...

 

diplo

[eric47]

  zabo said:

  Richard said:

As you might expect, there are exceptions.

Good points Richard.

Can you think of a way to interpret these exceptions?

 

M450

I was suggesting y number being material, not colour, and the M450 has y=5=vermeil and the cap is indeed vermeil, though the body is acrylic encapsulated seashells...

Maybe is the more precious material that leads...

 

M700

It's acrylic overlayed.

Maybe the x number it's the model and not the size.

 

M620

Originally the 600 size was the same as the 400, and this may support the idea that x is the model and not the size number.

Maybe the y=2 number denotes "special edition" pens (limited in production but not numbered), and not the material?

What about the y=5 then? :hmm1:

Zabo, just bear in mind that you may not get a pattern or rule that captures them -- sometimes just the way things go with numbering systems and rules that aren't there, aren't always followed or develop on the fly.

 

Anyway Richard mentioned the M700 Toledo, which is same size as the M400. There's also the M900 Toledo, which is the same size as the M800. M6xx, M7xx, M8xx, M9xx, M1xxx shows no size progression. It's not just that the M7xx Toledo that mucks up the works. What are we to make of the M750 (Jubilee Silver) and M760 (Jubilee Gold), which from what I've read are the same size as the M600? If anything Mx denotes a kind of a model number, but a messy one at that.

 

The M700/M900 pair are vermeil, while the M710/910 are the sterling silver versions (both overlay and trim). There's no '5' at the end of the silver versions.

 

The M750 (Jubilee Silver) throws a wrench in to: "second number identifies the material (0=acrylic, 1=steel, 2=silver, 5=vermeil)". And the M760 gives you another number to consider.

 

As for the second number (in particular y=2) denoting a special edition, what about the 320, 420, 425, 625 -- Pelikan doesn't count those as special editions on their own website.

 

If you consider the last two digits as a unit because we tend to see: 05, 10, 20, 25, 40, 50, etc. there's still some but not universal regularity *across* the main lines, e.g. M4xx and M6xx. The M420 has a sterling cap, the M620 is the cities series?!? But the M425 and M625 "pair" better.

 

I can't make a lot of sense across the lines or even within lines. For example the M625 isn't really a silver-trimmed variation of the M620 city series, as you find with the M425/M420 pair.

 

My overall gut feeling on this is that there Pelikan used a type of progression for awhile, which worked when they didn't have so many models. Once they got a lot more models and variations, it created numbering inconsistencies across lines. There is more recently attempts to try to standardize the numbering across lines, e.g. M425 and M625s. But some of the messy bits have to be left for historical reasons.

 

[Edit: fixed typos and added last paragraph.]

Edited June 8, 2009 by eric47

[zabo]

There "should" be a sense somewhere in the digits, and not only random factory assignment.

 

Interesting the two digit code theory :hmm1:

year of production? (nah!)

production line?

designer code?

any idea?

 

Do the last digits really always go by multiples of 5? no 1,2,3,4,6,7,8,9?

[diplomat]

  eric47 said:

What are we to make of the M750 (Jubilee Silver) and M760 (Jubilee Gold), which from what I've read are the same size as the M600?

 

No, the M750/M760 are in the size of the M2/M4/M7.

But they were released in 1988 when the M6 was the same size of the M2/M4 too!

 

Cheers,

[eric47]

  diplomat said:

  eric47 said:

What are we to make of the M750 (Jubilee Silver) and M760 (Jubilee Gold), which from what I've read are the same size as the M600?

 

No, the M750/M760 are in the size of the M2/M4/M7.

But they were released in 1988 when the M6 was the same size of the M2/M4 too!

 

Cheers,

Thanks! I've never seen one -- I was going by what I read and thought big M6. So it's actually better way at least size wise -- otherwise the M7 would be two different sizes, which is what I was thinking. Still kind of ugly that the M7 has the Jubilees and the Toledos. The M9 has only the big Toledos, no?

 

I think you posted under me, while I was working on my post. I see we identified some of the same problematic models.

Edited June 8, 2009 by eric47

[eric47]

  zabo said:

There "should" be a sense somewhere in the digits, and not only random factory assignment.

 

Do the last digits really always go by multiples of 5? no 1,2,3,4,6,7,8,9?

Well, there was the 101. But I thought the discussion was limited to the M-series -- not to be confused with BMWs.

[daenghafez]

Hmmmmm.. How about M430 and M730?

[diplomat]

And the evasive M7000?

[diplomat]

  eric47 said:

Thanks! I've never seen one -- I was going by what I read and thought big M6.

 

Here's a picture of the M750 and M760 next to three M4X0:

 

http://img134.imageshack.us/img134/4567/dsc9789.jpg

 

  eric47 said:

Still kind of ugly that the M7 has the Jubilees and the Toledos. The M9 has only the big Toledos, no?

 

And there is the M730 as daenghafez mentioned that is a complete different thing (looks like a M420)... yes, the M9 is the Toledo under M8 size (so far...)

 

  eric47 said:

I think you posted under me, while I was working on my post. I see we identified some of the same problematic models.

 

Indeed, I was quicker because of my language limits!

 

Cheers,

[zabo]

  diplomat said:

And the evasive M7000?

That would be easy: x=70

for the other two numbers boh? :bonk:

but 7005 is the silver trimmed version... :bonk: :bonk: :bonk:

[daenghafez]

  daenghafez said:

Hmmmmm.. How about M430 and M730?

 

 

  diplomat said:

And the evasive M7000?

 

And to add more fun to it, how abt the M415, where one of our FPNer pointed out, is the latest M400 tortoise 'limited edition' with yellow gold nib? (3X)

[DeScribe]

  daenghafez said:

  daenghafez said:

Hmmmmm.. How about M430 and M730?

 

 

  diplomat said:

And the evasive M7000?

 

And to add more fun to it, how abt the M415, where one of our FPNer pointed out, is the latest M400 tortoise 'limited edition' with yellow gold nib? (3X)

 

I am just wondering if a M435 is currently in the pipeline... :meow:

[eric47]

  diplomat said:

Here's a picture of the M750 and M760 next to three M4X0:

Thanks for the comparison shot. Very nice.

 

  diplomat said:

  eric47 said:

I think you posted under me, while I was working on my post. I see we identified some of the same problematic models.

Indeed, I was quicker because of my language limits!

Now that's a line I'm going to remember.

[jkenton]

  Richard said:

As you might expect, there are exceptions.

 

And this M620 should have silver furniture:

 

http://www.richardspens.com/images/pens/pelikan/zoomed/M620_piazza_navona.jpg

 

Indeed, exceptions.

 

x20 should have a silver cap and gold furniture, x25 has silver cap and silver furniture, according to the "code" I proposed.

 

That example looks like a translucent cap?

 

:-) Anyway, do you expect a pen commemorating an Italian landmark to follow a German's rules?

 

(diving for cover...)

Edited June 8, 2009 by jkenton