Original English Roundhand

[caliken]

I'm returning to this topic because I've had a further thought :hmm1:

 

To reiterate, none of the pre-engraved writing which was copied by the engraver George Bickham in the production of his "The Universal Penman" still exists. Since its first publication in 1733, this monumental work has been revered by anyone interested in 18th century English Roundhand (later known as Copperplate), and it seems inconceivable that all the original manuscripts were lost but............

As has been mentioned elsewhere, the image on the copperplate had to be engraved in reverse for the image to appear the right way round when transferred to paper.

 

The general theory seems to be that a mirror was used for the engraver to see the wording in reverse and to then copy it onto the plate. This seems unlikely to me, as the degrees of accuracy required would have been almost impossible to achieve.

I think that it was far more likely that the work was traced through the back of the original onto the copperplate and then the image was engraved. This would result in a far more accurate image but would probably destroy the original writing in the process.

This would account for the total disapperarance of all the original writings.

 

This is just a theory and I would welcome any further comments.

 

caliken

Edited August 11, 2011 by caliken

[nawybot]

It is my understanding that the body of the Declaration of Independence of the United States of America (not the title!) is written in English Roundhand. It was certainly written with a quill, it is not an engraved copy, though I doubt anyone can say how that quill was cut, exactly. The original document may be seen (through bulletproof glass) at the U. S. National Archives, 7th and Constitution Avenues, N.W., Washington, D. C., during visiting hours, by any tourist. Not very legible after all these years, but surviving.

[Randal6393]

I'm returning to this topic because I've had a further thought :hmm1:

 

To reiterate, none of the pre-engraved writing which was copied by the engraver George Bickham in the production of his "The Universal Penman" still exists. Since its first publication in 1733, this monumental work has been revered by anyone interested in 18th century English Roundhand (later known as Copperplate), and it seems inconceivable that all the original manuscripts were lost but............

As has been mentioned elsewhere, the image on the copperplate had to be engraved in reverse for the image to appear the right way round when transferred to paper.

 

The general theory seems to be that a mirror was used for the engraver to see the wording in reverse and to then copy it onto the plate. This seems unlikely to me, as the degrees of accuracy required would have been almost impossible to achieve.

I think that it was far more likely that the work was traced through the back of the original onto the copperplate and then the image was engraved. This would result in a far more accurate image but would probably destroy the original writing in the process.

This would account for the total disapperarance of all the original writings.

 

This is just a theory and I would welcome any further comments.

 

caliken

 

 

Think you have a good point there. I viewed the videos at the Evan Lindquist site -- very interesting. He shows how he prepared the plate for his copperplate originals. In it, he made a pen drawing and traced it over in graphite pencil. Then he coated the copper sheet with beeswax and transferred the graphite onto the copper by pressing down. This would leave beeswax on the original paper drawing. That would then be discarded, as the drawing is not important once the plate is ready for carving.

[WestLothian]

I did find his earlier work:

Round-text, a new copy-book by George Bickham Published 1712

 

There were many other copybooks from 1600's in the National Library of Scotland (also from their website).

I suspect that the works were laid out and balanced as the engravings rather than necessarily copied from fine originals.

 

If you are looking for examples of fine contemporary English Round-Text handwriting, then the work of registrars in parish records can be a good resource.

[Italicist]

 

I think that it was far more likely that the work was traced through the back of the original onto the copperplate and then the image was engraved. This would result in a far more accurate image but would probably destroy the original writing in the process.

This would account for the total disapperarance of all the original writings.

 

This is just a theory and I would welcome any further comments.

 

caliken

 

I have no particular knowledge of the details of the engraving process, but I'm struck by the elegant simplicity of your proposal, Caliken. It provides a more plausible account of the making of the copperplate (without recourse to arduous mirror-writing) while also accounting for the complete lack of surviving originals; these two features of your theory together make it quite appealing, quite apart from other technical considerations of engraving on which I'm unfit to comment.

[caliken]

I have no particular knowledge of the details of the engraving process, but I'm struck by the elegant simplicity of your proposal, Caliken. It provides a more plausible account of the making of the copperplate (without recourse to arduous mirror-writing) while also accounting for the complete lack of surviving originals; these two features of your theory together make it quite appealing, quite apart from other technical considerations of engraving on which I'm unfit to comment.

Thank you all for your interest and comments.

 

Italicist - I think we are right. This is the only way it makes sense, to me. If we take 'The Universal Penman'

as our Copperplate 'Bible' it seems totally inconceivable that all the original writings used in the production of the many wonderful, printed examples, can have been lost - unless they were destroyed in the actual Copperplate-production process.

 

It will be very interesting to see if JamesIV, who contributed earlier to this thread, concurs with this theory as he has an interest and an excellent understanding of the process involved.

 

Thanks for your participation.

 

caliken

Edited August 15, 2011 by caliken

[JeffB]

This thread and Ken’s initial post suggest a couple of observations regarding the aesthetic and techical qualities of script. One, it appears the engravers deserve more credit than they have been given for creating an “ideal” script beyond anything they were given to copy, and thus for being artists in their own right, using their technology to create a new script with lines, constrained flourishes, shading, and slant that seems to have taken hold of everyone as representing aesthetic perfection. Two, by doing this, they drove pen technology to sharp metal nibs that could approximate their fine and shaded lines, thus accelerating development of a whole industry. Three, while the introduction of their aesthetic style created a beautiful standard for writing as an art form, it also inspired the strict derivative styles of Spencer and Palmer that by their insistence on everyday aestheticism and perfection of technique actually discouraged the enjoyment of simple cursive writing.

 

The original English Roundhand seems still to occupy the center, a balance of aesthetics and practicality, copybook-taught, the script of choice in an era witnessing the creation of some of the documents we most revere today.

[WestLothian]

I agree with JeffB that the engravers' art, by permitting proof prints and subsequent burnishing and improvement,

would lead to an almost impossibly high standard. The hair-line and broad-line limits of width would all seem

reasonable and would certainly be the optimum behaviour of the ideal nib in the best managed hand.

 

The regularity of the spacing and the angles are clearly an organised standard to follow based on observation

and adjustment for improvement and optimisation. It is also interesting to note that the angle of slope at 55 degrees

seems to match the diagonal of the ideal page, with the ratio of the paper being 1 and root of 2.

 

I would like to look back at older samples of writing to see what was written long before these particular copy-books.

This example written only hours before her execution: http://www.invaluabl...15-c-3da2ff9f72

 

Some of these samples are fascinating http://secondat.blogspot.com/2009/12/written-by-hand.html

Edited August 28, 2011 by WestLothian

[Jamesiv1]

Hi Ken and all,

 

Excellent theory! I think you may be on to solving the mystery.

 

Got me thinking and googling for the history of engraving... and I found some fascinating information.

 

Wikipedia (I love Wikipedia)

Line Engraving

 

A Google search:

"copperplate printing process" (without the quotes)

 

Haven't yet viewed the YouTube videos towards the bottom of the Google page... May be very enlightening.

 

I am going to search the web for a forum or discussion group on Engraving - particularly the History of Engraving - surely it is out there somewhere.

 

I will report what I find.

 

James

Edited October 23, 2011 by Jamesiv1

[Jamesiv1]

Fascinating!

 

 

Evan Lindquist

 

Enlightening!

 

 

YouTube search for "engraving copperplate"

Edited October 23, 2011 by Jamesiv1

[caliken]

Excellent theory! I think you may be on to solving the mystery.

James,

 

Thanks for the fascinating and revealing links. It certainly looks as though the "Universal Penman" originals would have been discarded after transfer of the image, as they would have been irrevocably damaged in the process.

 

Ken

Edited October 25, 2011 by caliken

[Jamesiv1]

Hi Ken,

 

Yes, I agree. Still puzzling though... because surely not *everything* they produced got transferred and printed. Projects started but not finished, books begun but never completed, that sort of thing. Heck, I would settle for some practice sheets! LOL

 

Here at my local university, in their Rare Books collection they have bibles from the 1300's still intact and well-preserved. So it continues to bend my brain that we can find nothing from the English Masters.

 

Oh well.... Good things come to those who wait, eh?

 

Best regards,

 

James

 

Afterthought... Tracking down the family tree is a popular pastime here in the U.S. - I wonder how difficult it would be to try to contact some descendants of say, George Bickham and Joseph Champion? hmmmmmm......

[Chevalier]

Wow Ken, I really appreciate your calligraphy work, but I just read something that's far more fascinating to me. I would have never thought that you are over 70, not even close so. I would have filed you in the 50ies range, but only because of your accumulated knowledge and skill. *draws his hat* I knew it, staying curious is as important as I thought.

[georges zaslavsky]

very lovely writing, thanks for sharing