79 ink, what do you think?

[dannzeman]

...Here's another product that's designed to appeal to the arrogance and obscene excess of the super rich.

 

Just had to vent on this one and I do not mean to offend anyone

Is there really anything wrong with that? We all know there are plenty of filthy rich people out there. If I could make a product, says it's exclusive and make it look like its worth 100 times more than it really is and get these people to buy then I'd do it. Their money is going to go somewhere, might as well be into my pocket.

 

Oh, and no offense taken.

[JonW]

Is there a sizable demand out there for an actual gold fountain pen ink?

 

Not from me -- I have trouble affording another bottle of regular ink at $8 to $15 a throw...

 

Honestly, this shouldn't be that hard; he's almost certainly selling at that price specifically to make the "exclusivity" stand up. Given reasonable markups, gold nano-flake ink with a binder to make the plates lie flat as it dries (essentially, a water soluble, gold version of Bumper Chrome spray paint) might cost as much as $50 a bottle at retail, but then you mark it up another factor of fifty to put it in the same category with solid gold Waterman pens. If you have a reasonably cost-effective way to make a gold suspension where the particles are flat plates, but still small enough (say, under 100 nanometers across, they'd be 1-2 nanometers thick), I'd start with about 1% gum arabic as a binder, a smaller amount of some surfactant to reduce surface tension (fountain pen ink should have about half the surface tension of water), and a trace of glycerin, and see what it does. If it works, you can check whether it needs a biocide (with metallic gold present, it might not).

 

Yeah, I can't imagine that $2,500/bottle is anything representative of the true costs. But if people are buying $10,000 pens and want something like this, hey why not? But for the rest of us,maybe there is a more reasonable way to get a fun, metallic ink.

 

I follow what you're saying about the nanoparticles but I'm not aware of any that are flat plates like that. As far as I know, metallic nanoparticles are all spherical.

 

Wouldn't having a binder like gum arabic cause clogging of the pen?

 

I'd like to know if a reddish suspension of nanoparticles will dry to something looking like metallic gold. If it does, then I can try and formulate an ink. Could be fun.

[Mrsal]

id be afraid to write with it! and ill never have that much money for a bottle of ink

[ZeissIkon]

I follow what you're saying about the nanoparticles but I'm not aware of any that are flat plates like that. As far as I know, metallic nanoparticles are all spherical.

 

That's a function of how they're made. For gold, hmmm. I'd suggest electropating gold onto aluminum foil, then dissolving the foil away with hydrochloric acid (which won't touch the gold). The resulting gold foil will be too thin to have any mechanical strength, many times thinner even than gold leaf, and ought to (with suitable processing) break up pretty readily into nano-scale plates.

 

Edit to add: gum arabic can clog pens in high concentrations, but you need some kind of binder to hold the gold on the page. Does anyone know what binders are used in the fountain pen safe carbon inks like Pelikan Fount India, Sailor Kiwaguro, or Pilot Nano Carbon? You won't want or need much binder, and gum arabic will redissolve in water (especially if the water is slightly alkaline, as with a weak ammonia solution), if it hasn't been hardened by something like photochemical action (which requires a catalyst, commonly something like potassium dichromate). Real India inks use either shellac or a mix of shellac and gum arabic, and the shellac doesn't redissolve in water based solutions (and the alcohol that would resoften it is bad for pen parts).

Edited July 24, 2009 by ZeissIkon

[Silvermink]

I think this is incredibly goofy, but then I'm one of those people who looks at Robb Report or something and gets a bit queasy at the thought of that much money spent that frivolously.

[AlaskanWriter]

Can you imagine the horror of tripping or something and spilling any? A $1500 splotch on the carpet. Yeah. Lol!

 

Or how much money you literally send down the drain if you flush/clean the pen?

 

Yikes.

 

G.

[JonW]

I follow what you're saying about the nanoparticles but I'm not aware of any that are flat plates like that. As far as I know, metallic nanoparticles are all spherical.

 

That's a function of how they're made. For gold, hmmm. I'd suggest electropating gold onto aluminum foil, then dissolving the foil away with hydrochloric acid (which won't touch the gold). The resulting gold foil will be too thin to have any mechanical strength, many times thinner even than gold leaf, and ought to (with suitable processing) break up pretty readily into nano-scale plates.

 

Edit to add: gum arabic can clog pens in high concentrations, but you need some kind of binder to hold the gold on the page. Does anyone know what binders are used in the fountain pen safe carbon inks like Pelikan Fount India, Sailor Kiwaguro, or Pilot Nano Carbon? You won't want or need much binder, and gum arabic will redissolve in water (especially if the water is slightly alkaline, as with a weak ammonia solution), if it hasn't been hardened by something like photochemical action (which requires a catalyst, commonly something like potassium dichromate). Real India inks use either shellac or a mix of shellac and gum arabic, and the shellac doesn't redissolve in water based solutions (and the alcohol that would resoften it is bad for pen parts).

 

Apparently at craft stores you can buy very, very fine powders of metals such as gold. Good for making dip pen inks but they clog fountain pens. Or so I've read. Not sure if any "conventional" means of making gold flakes would work well. Going the nano route here could be a big advantage. Provided that the nanoparticles settle onto the paper and actually look like metallic gold.

 

Thanks for the binder info. I think there would also be relatively easy ways to make the nanoparticles bond chemically to the paper, so they don't fall off. But the binders you mention could be an easier and more conventional way to go.

 

I'm thinking that it really might be possible to make a gold fountain pen ink for a somewhat reasonable price. Maybe something on the order of $30 per ounce/30 ml bottle. I might give it a shot. Still thinking about it... hmmm...

[kushbaby]

I'll make sure to get some of this... right after I have my solid gold toilet installed.

 

:roflmho:

 

[tfwall]

It doesn't add up if the solution looks gold and the seller claims that it is gold nano particles suspended as in a colloid.

I believe the liquid was reported as being black. A gold suspension significantly more concentrated than yours would be a dark enough red-purple to appear black, would it not?

 

Their promotional material talks about it being a deep red and that is what it looks like in their glossy promotional literature. This checks with my empirical knowledge of gold solutions.

 

Dried, the ink looks like a variable grey ink on white paper, but it does come out gold on dark paper. Very nice effect in a broad stub, I don't know if it would be startling enough from a F or EF nib.

[SamCapote]

Just use guilder's gold paint. Another brand is Hato Paint. Or a cheaper version at craft stores.

 

This link has lots of various resources.

Edited August 8, 2009 by SamCapote

[Deirdre]

It'd be interesting to add as an ingredient in a custom blend. It'd sure be known as YOUR ink.

[tfwall]

Just use guilder's gold paint. Another brand is Hato Paint. Or a cheaper version at craft stores.

 

This link has lots of various resources.

 

I wouldn't put paint or liquid leaf appliqué into my fountain pen...let me know how it works out for you though.

[tfwall]

The manufacturer is running a special at present for buyers in the States. Now would be a good time to make a move on this ink, if you have been contemplating trying some.

Edited October 4, 2009 by Chemyst

[tfwall]

For those in the UK, this ink is now available at Harrods.

[matje]

well, that's his punishment for being plain silly. no understanding from me

[Philosophy Student]

I think it is very odd that there are no photos of the ink actually used, or written with on that website! I want to see what 24k gold ink looks like on paper!

 

 

thanks

[tfwall]

I think it is very odd that there are no photos of the ink actually used, or written with on that website! I want to see what 24k gold ink looks like on paper!

 

They will send you an evaluation package with samples on different colours and types of paper. Contact information is on the website.

 

The ink looks slate grey on white paper, but is a very shiny gold on darker paper. It's an interesting effect.

Edited October 7, 2009 by Chemyst

[LedZepGirl]

It doesn't sound like something that would be good to put in an FP. From what I've read it's next to impossible to produce a metallic ink without pigments being suspended in the ink. Most of those pigments are made up of large sized particles. Another thing is the chemistry used in an ink that changes colors such as that might contain compounds that could be harmful to fountain pens, I know I'd be wary of it. Or the guy could just being using some of that special paper that changes color when exposed to certain chemicals- like those coloring books they make for little kids that come with one maker.

[tfwall]

It doesn't sound like something that would be good to put in an FP. From what I've read it's next to impossible to produce a metallic ink without pigments being suspended in the ink. Most of those pigments are made up of large sized particles.

 

You are quite right, this ink does use suspended particles. However, they are uniform colloidal particles and will pass through the mechanism of fountain pens.

 

I would certainly caution you about making your own metallic ink or attempting to use gold paint in a fountain pen, like Sam Capote suggests.

 

Another thing is the chemistry used in an ink that changes colors such as that might contain compounds that could be harmful to fountain pens, I know I'd be wary of it. Or the guy could just being using some of that special paper that changes color when exposed to certain chemicals- like those coloring books they make for little kids that come with one maker.

 

The colour change is based on how the particles order as they dry and their reflectance. It doesn't change colour on the paper, it just appears a different colour depending on the background that it dries on.

[LedZepGirl]

It doesn't sound like something that would be good to put in an FP. From what I've read it's next to impossible to produce a metallic ink without pigments being suspended in the ink. Most of those pigments are made up of large sized particles.

 

You are quite right, this ink does use suspended particles. However, they are uniform colloidal particles and will pass through the mechanism of fountain pens.

 

I would certainly caution you about making your own metallic ink or attempting to use gold paint in a fountain pen, like Sam Capote suggests.

 

Another thing is the chemistry used in an ink that changes colors such as that might contain compounds that could be harmful to fountain pens, I know I'd be wary of it. Or the guy could just being using some of that special paper that changes color when exposed to certain chemicals- like those coloring books they make for little kids that come with one maker.

 

The colour change is based on how the particles order as they dry and their reflectance. It doesn't change colour on the paper, it just appears a different colour depending on the background that it dries on.

 

 

That's pretty fascinating that they've been able to develop an ink that does that. In industrial/production scale printing metallic inks and their pigments are always causing problems or have properties that are undesirable. Aluminum, bronze, copper or zinc alloy based pigment is often used in metallic printing inks. You think if they can make metallic ink that is supposedly safe for fountain pens the printing industry would would try to adopt an alternative to the coarse pigments that cause plate and machine wear and other problems. Sorry for getting off topic, something similar was brought up in one of my classes last week.