79 ink, what do you think?

[Shamouti]

Hey there,

 

Well, last weekend was the Chicago Pen Show, as most of you know. Many pen friends from here on FPN and around the world came to be dazzled by the pens, inks, and other things. It was a lot of fun. But there was a guy named Torsten who had something very different...

 

The table was clothed in red satin fabric, with a display featuring white gloves, papers and two boxes, in which one was opened to reveal a crystal inkwell. The number 79 was imprinted on the cap and listed on the instructions the words, 79 Ink-24 Karat Gold.

 

There was a large hard plastic container partially covered by a black table cloth, and an alluring billboard behind the man, stating this ink was 24 Karat gold; you can write with pure gold. You could write with a sample of the ink as it dried from a black to a gold sheen using a fine red smooth paper for demonstrations.

 

 

And there he waited...And waited...And waited. Passersby kindly photographed the man as he displayed a brave smile.

 

And yet there he sat...waiting more...Until the show was over. Then he simply, and quietly, disassembled his display, papers and ink into the large, black, hard container, and walked away.

 

No one will purchase his ink in this show. Maybe the next one...

 

(sigh) Shamouti

 

[hexyr]

How much was the ink?

[DrPJM1]

He explained that pure 24K gold nano-particles were used in a proprietary suspension that could be used in fountain pens without fear of clogging.

The ink, in a beautiful glass inkwell, cost +/- $2,500 (if I remember well). Maybe his table should have been placed between Bittner and Oscarson...too rich for my blood!

[hamadryad11]

I feel so bad for him.

 

I would have talked to him a while so he wouldn't feel so lonely and awkward, but there's no way I would buy that ink.

[Sproctor]

 

Wow,

 

Can you imagine what his development costs were? Not to mention manufacturing... Whew!

 

Very Best Regards,

 

S.P.

 

 

 

 

[penguinmaster]

I think that's super cool (the ink that is), but yeah only a select few will be able to purchase it. Looking at his website though he seems to market it that way too. Hope the guy has a second job and maybe this was just a side project for him!!

[ofpwriter]

He should team up with Jacob-journals. But seriously, the idea of gold ink is intriguing.

[johnboz]

I saw him sitting there but didn't get a chance to stop and look. It didn't seem like many people were interested. Do you think he might do better at a different show?

[Ernst Bitterman]

Is there a pen show in Dubai? That seems like his ideal target market. I find I'm actually more interested in this than in a $10,000 pen to put it in, but only very slightly.

[publius]

Intriguing stuff, but I'm a little surprised at the black-to-metallic shift. Finely-divided metals are generally black in appearance, but I have some memory of gold's being used to obtain a purple colour — maybe that was with stained glass. Definitely suitable for writing on red silk!

[ZeissIkon]

Intriguing stuff, but I'm a little surprised at the black-to-metallic shift. Finely-divided metals are generally black in appearance, but I have some memory of gold's being used to obtain a purple colour — maybe that was with stained glass. Definitely suitable for writing on red silk!

 

Extremely fine gold can have a red or purple color when suspended in a clear medium, but you're right; most finely divided metals come up pretty close to black, give or take a little "warm" or "cool" tone (silver in a photographic negative or print is one fine example; platinum sponge catalyst another). What I suspect is happening with the 79 ink is that as the ink dries, the binder shrinks and forces flat plate-like particles of gold to conform to the surface -- get 'em all parallel, and they'll go back to a gold color. This, BTW, is similar to the technology used to put color-shift ink on modern US currency without having to spray it and let it spend hours drying: the color-shift paint is dried on a surface, then scraped off and finely divided before applying in an ink that forces the particles to lie flat when the ink dries (in minutes instead of hours).

[Tweel]

Is there a pen show in Dubai? That seems like his ideal target market.

Or the gold souk in another Gulf town, like Kuwait City.

 

I wonder whether there's any connection between "79" and the ink in this post?

 

-- Brian

 

[FrankB]

At $2,500 USD a pop, I believe there is small wonder that he sold none. It still sounds to me that this ink might not be entirely suitable for FP's. If I had such an ink, I would only use it with a dip pen. - My personal opinion only.

[ZeissIkon]

At $2,500 USD a pop, I believe there is small wonder that he sold none. It still sounds to me that this ink might not be entirely suitable for FP's. If I had such an ink, I would only use it with a dip pen. - My personal opinion only.

 

If the gold in 79 is in fact nanometer scale, it should have no more effect on a fountain pen than the inevitable bacteria and mold spores in ink that's been opened a few times -- much less effect than the spores, in fact, which are some hundreds of nanometers across. Further, don't forget the Nano Carbon fountain pen ink. Simply put, nanoscale particles are too small to have any effect on the flow properties of a liquid unless they constitute a fairly high percentage of the volume. Now, depending on the binder he uses to get the gold nano-plates to lie flat (so they shine yellow), there might or might not be a problem if you let the ink dry in a pen (I should say, a worse problem than other inks with binders like Nano Carbon, Kiwaguro, or Pelikan Fount India), but one shouldn't let ink dry in a pen anyway (and that goes double at $2500 a bottle).

 

If the gold in 79 is not actually nanoscale, the seller ought to be able to afford to replace a few clogged pens by the time the truth comes out...

[claustrum]

Hi all

 

It doesn't add up if the solution looks gold and the seller claims that it is gold nano particles suspended as in a colloid. I have made gold colloids many times (I developed a chemistry exp for 3rd year Uni students) and gold nano particles in a colloid result in a deep burgundy color. The colur varies depending on the size of the gold nano particles. They are *not* gold coloured. If they are big enough to be gold coloured then they won't be in a colloidal suspension. Oh and when we made 100 mL of this nice burgundy color we used about a few mG of gold chloride which costs a few dollars. It's expensive but a colloid of nano particles doesn't contain much! I don't know enough of this product to say anything further, just that it does not make sense.

 

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Colloidal_gold has a good pic that is correct.

http://mrsec.wisc.edu/Edetc/nanolab/gold/index.html has pics of making it.

 

Skeptic :-)

Edited July 22, 2009 by claustrum

[Penman1964]

Hey there,

 

Well, last weekend was the Chicago Pen Show, as most of you know. Many pen friends from here on FPN and around the world came to be dazzled by the pens, inks, and other things. It was a lot of fun. But there was a guy named Torsten who had something very different...

 

The table was clothed in red satin fabric, with a display featuring white gloves, papers and two boxes, in which one was opened to reveal a crystal inkwell. The number 79 was imprinted on the cap and listed on the instructions the words, 79 Ink-24 Karat Gold.

 

There was a large hard plastic container partially covered by a black table cloth, and an alluring billboard behind the man, stating this ink was 24 Karat gold; you can write with pure gold. You could write with a sample of the ink as it dried from a black to a gold sheen using a fine red smooth paper for demonstrations.

 

 

And there he waited...And waited...And waited. Passersby kindly photographed the man as he displayed a brave smile.

 

And yet there he sat...waiting more...Until the show was over. Then he simply, and quietly, disassembled his display, papers and ink into the large, black, hard container, and walked away.

 

No one will purchase his ink in this show. Maybe the next one...

 

(sigh) Shamouti

 

No surprise. I think this is a ridiculous idea, and quite frankly, nano particles or not, I would NEVER put this in a good fountain pen.

 

I went to this fellow's website to find out more about this product, and there was nothing there! Totally useless! Just an e-mail address where you can "inquire" about this highly exclusive product. Here's another product that's designed to appeal to the arrogance and obscene excess of the super rich.

 

Just had to vent on this one and I do not mean to offend anyone

 

 

[Lloyd]

I think he's selling very over-priced Goldschlagger.

[JonW]

I've been thinking about how to formulate a true gold fountain pen ink. There are issues to overcome like preventing clogging and getting things to stay on the paper and not fall off easily. I think it could all be done with some clever chemistry.

 

Shouldn't be terribly expensive either. Not $10 per bottle cheap. But not $2500 either. Relative to standard inks maybe an extra $10 per bottle for the gold-related materials. That's a very early guess as I look at the costs of some of the chemicals needed. Figure all the costs of regular ink plus the extra materials and labor for the gold aspect. No idea how to factor in the labor. Plus the development costs- no idea how to guess on that as well. My time ain't worth what it used to be. And profit. All of this would take some time in the lab, trying out different things. Not sure if it's worth it, although I do think it would be cool. If I came up with a good formulation, it would probably be best to team up with an existing ink company for the production and marketing. We could call it "FPN Gold."

 

Is there a sizable demand out there for an actual gold fountain pen ink? If there is, I might take some time in the lab to try and formulate something. Hmmm....

 

 

It doesn't add up if the solution looks gold and the seller claims that it is gold nano particles suspended as in a colloid. I have made gold colloids many times (I developed a chemistry exp for 3rd year Uni students) and gold nano particles in a colloid result in a deep burgundy color. The colur varies depending on the size of the gold nano particles. They are *not* gold coloured.

 

claustrum-

 

I was thinking the same thing. Perchance do you know what happens when you take one of these reddish gold nanoparticle solutions/suspensions and let it dry out? Does it then look like regular gold?

 

I could probably make some quickly and have a look for myself. But I don't have all the chemicals needed on hand at the moment.

Edited July 22, 2009 by JonW

[publius]

It doesn't add up if the solution looks gold and the seller claims that it is gold nano particles suspended as in a colloid.

I believe the liquid was reported as being black. A gold suspension significantly more concentrated than yours would be a dark enough red-purple to appear black, would it not?

[ZeissIkon]

Is there a sizable demand out there for an actual gold fountain pen ink?

 

Not from me -- I have trouble affording another bottle of regular ink at $8 to $15 a throw...

 

Honestly, this shouldn't be that hard; he's almost certainly selling at that price specifically to make the "exclusivity" stand up. Given reasonable markups, gold nano-flake ink with a binder to make the plates lie flat as it dries (essentially, a water soluble, gold version of Bumper Chrome spray paint) might cost as much as $50 a bottle at retail, but then you mark it up another factor of fifty to put it in the same category with solid gold Waterman pens. If you have a reasonably cost-effective way to make a gold suspension where the particles are flat plates, but still small enough (say, under 100 nanometers across, they'd be 1-2 nanometers thick), I'd start with about 1% gum arabic as a binder, a smaller amount of some surfactant to reduce surface tension (fountain pen ink should have about half the surface tension of water), and a trace of glycerin, and see what it does. If it works, you can check whether it needs a biocide (with metallic gold present, it might not).