Flushing a Hero 616 and parker 51

[w0den]

Ok, this might be a stupid question. I just bought a bunch of hero 616's. I lost the first good pen I bought (A lamy 2000) and I figured I would buy a bunch of cheep pens to play with before I buy my next pen.

 

One of the 616's was leaking, I wanted to get all the ink out, so I squeezed the bar a bunch of times, but the ink stayed in. This is an aerometric type filler (obviously not the real McCoy). Is it possible to flush these pens?

 

How about the real Parker 51 aerometric? How would you flush it? Squeezing it a bunch of times seems to suck ink up, how do you reverse this sucking into a pushing? Is it a more cleaver mechanism that sucks in when the tip is immersed, but blows when the tip is out of liquid? Does it always blow a bit but suck more so, if in liquid it will fill faster than it empty, but when out of liquid it will empty? (ok, that just sounded dirty).

 

I am asking because I want to buy a parker 51 at some point, but being able to change the ink is pretty important, and, if you can't empty the sack and clean it out, that seems like a non starter.

 

Thanks!

-w0den

[someonesdad]

It's just a rubber sack with ink in it -- there's no way e.g. of taking it off and rinsing it out without more work than most of us would wish for. What I do when changing inks is put the nib in water, then repeatedly press the J-bar and continue until the water being ejected is pretty clear. Now, there's still ink in the feed, so what I do next is to put a few drops of ammonia in some clear water (say, 50 ml) and fill the pen with it and let it sit. Usually for an hour or two, sometimes overnight. Usually, the ink will diffuse out of the feed and collect in the bottom of the container. This is about the best you can do without disassembling the pen. You can take it apart by unscrewing the hood; this would let you clean the feed and use a hypodermic syringe to flush the sack. I never bother, as what I described first works just fine.

[w0den]

  someonesdad said:

It's just a rubber sack with ink in it -- there's no way e.g. of taking it off and rinsing it out without more work than most of us would wish for. What I do when changing inks is put the nib in water, then repeatedly press the J-bar and continue until the water being ejected is pretty clear. Now, there's still ink in the feed, so what I do next is to put a few drops of ammonia in some clear water (say, 50 ml) and fill the pen with it and let it sit. Usually for an hour or two, sometimes overnight. Usually, the ink will diffuse out of the feed and collect in the bottom of the container. This is about the best you can do without disassembling the pen. You can take it apart by unscrewing the hood; this would let you clean the feed and use a hypodermic syringe to flush the sack. I never bother, as what I described first works just fine.

 

My question still stands though, say you fill it with water, how do you squeeze all the water out? Does pushing on the bar force water out? I thought that pushing on the bar draws water/ink in... At least that is how it seamed on my 616, I could not get the ink out. Of course the 616 is not a parker 51... but is the mechanism the same?

[J English Smith]

After flushing, I just press the bar to expel as much water as possible, then use a tissue to draw remaining water from the feed/nib. You can also do a "thermometer shake" but I don't do that for fear of having the pen fly. Another small trick is to let the flushed pen sit for 24/48 hours afterward uncapped, which allows remaining water to evaporate a bit more before you re-cap and store it.

 

The only real difference in flushing the 616 vs. a 51 is that the 51's press bar is more efficient than the Hero at expelling ink or water. To either fill or to clean a 616, I find the best bet is to remove the sac guard/bar by pulling it off and then squeezing the sac directly. Some Heros have the sac guard affixed, some don't. Newer ones seem to just press-fit, allowing you to pull it right off and then re-seat it when done.

 

As has been noted several times, there is a difference in the overall system as a 51 is an actual 'aerometric' feed with breather tube, allowing air pressure to equalize, while the Hero is a simple squeeze-fill mechanism.

[someonesdad]

  w0den said:

My question still stands though, say you fill it with water, how do you squeeze all the water out? Does pushing on the bar force water out? I thought that pushing on the bar draws water/ink in... At least that is how it seamed on my 616, I could not get the ink out. Of course the 616 is not a parker 51... but is the mechanism the same?

My answer still stands. You probably can't get all the water out, but you can get most. If I want to remove as much as possible, I use a "centripetal dewater-er" that I made from a piece of PVC pipe. Does it get all the water? Who knows? The only way to be sure would be to disassemble the pen.

 

  Quote

As has been noted several times, there is a difference in the overall system as a 51 is an actual 'aerometric' feed with breather tube, allowing air pressure to equalize, while the Hero is a simple squeeze-fill mechanism.

Not true -- take apart a 616 and you'll see the breather tube. See Binder's site for a picture of how things look.

[richardandtracy]

  someonesdad said:

  Quote

As has been noted several times, there is a difference in the overall system as a 51 is an actual 'aerometric' feed with breather tube, allowing air pressure to equalize, while the Hero is a simple squeeze-fill mechanism.

Not true -- take apart a 616 and you'll see the breather tube. See Binder's site for a picture of how things look.

Erm, I think we're getting bogged down with terminology here, and are an danger of arguing over how many angels can dance on the head of a pin.

The Hero H616 is a simple squeeze filler. It has a breather tube, and they are sometimes quite short.

The P51 Aero is a breather tube pen, with a long tube. To stop it gurking in a plane when held nib up, it has a tiny pressure equalizing hole in the breather tube. That is the difference in the mechanisms. Not enough to alter the way it works normally.

 

In both pens the way ink gets to the nib is via a small cut/split in the collector, which draws ink to the nib by capilliary action.

 

In both pens the majority of the ink gets into the pen via the breather tube, and a small amount through the collector via the slit mentioned above. In both pens the air escapes down the breather tube as the press bar is squeezed, until the level of the ink reaches the top of the breather tube. After that, every squeeze squirts ink out.

 

Now, the way to flush both pens is to suck up water and squeeze it out. The only way to get the ink out is for it to go down the breather tube or through the slit in the collector. The ratio of flow is maybe 10:1 in favour of the breather tube. That means the last coloured water in the bottom of the sac near the collector will need to be squeezed slowly out through the collector (or drawn by capilliary action into a cloth). It is, by defintion of the flow ratios, very slow, inefficient & frustrating. With both pens.

 

Regards,

 

Richard.

 

[w0den]

  richardandtracy said:

Erm, I think we're getting bogged down with terminology here, and are an danger of arguing over how many angels can dance on the head of a pin.

The Hero H616 is a simple squeeze filler. It has a breather tube, and they are sometimes quite short.

The P51 Aero is a breather tube pen, with a long tube. To stop it gurking in a plane when held nib up, it has a tiny pressure equalizing hole in the breather tube. That is the difference in the mechanisms. Not enough to alter the way it works normally.

 

In both pens the way ink gets to the nib is via a small cut/split in the collector, which draws ink to the nib by capilliary action.

 

In both pens the majority of the ink gets into the pen via the breather tube, and a small amount through the collector via the slit mentioned above. In both pens the air escapes down the breather tube as the press bar is squeezed, until the level of the ink reaches the top of the breather tube. After that, every squeeze squirts ink out.

 

Now, the way to flush both pens is to suck up water and squeeze it out. The only way to get the ink out is for it to go down the breather tube or through the slit in the collector. The ratio of flow is maybe 10:1 in favour of the breather tube. That means the last coloured water in the bottom of the sac near the collector will need to be squeezed slowly out through the collector (or drawn by capilliary action into a cloth). It is, by defintion of the flow ratios, very slow, inefficient & frustrating. With both pens.

 

Regards,

 

Richard.

Thanks for the great explanation. someonesdad, I like your poor mans centrifuge..

So... Many of the hero 616's that I just acquired leaked... I never heard anyone really complain about leaky hero 616s... Also my cap did not have the arrow design on the clip...

Turns out, I am pretty sure I got duped... I think I bought FAKE hero 616's. This ever happen to anyone before? (I will post this question in a more appropriate forum)

Cheers,

w0den

 

[publius]

  w0den said:

Thanks for the great explanation. someonesdad, I like your poor mans centrifuge..

So... Many of the hero 616's that I just acquired leaked... I never heard anyone really complain about leaky hero 616s... Also my cap did not have the arrow design on the clip...

Turns out, I am pretty sure I got duped... I think I bought FAKE hero 616's. This ever happen to anyone before? (I will post this question in a more appropriate forum)

Cheers,

w0den

How on Earth do you end up with a fake of such a cheap pen?

[w0den]

  publius said:

How on Earth do you end up with a fake of such a cheap pen?

 

Beats the hell outa me, but the cap does not look the same and they leak. At first I thought they must have gotten rid of the arrow on the clip. One of my friends, who speaks Chinese, found a Chinese article about fake Hero pens. arrgggg. I sent an email to the guy I bought it from on ebay.

 

[richardandtracy]

  w0den said:

  publius said:

How on Earth do you end up with a fake of such a cheap pen?

 

Beats the hell outa me, but the cap does not look the same and they leak. At first I thought they must have gotten rid of the arrow on the clip. One of my friends, who speaks Chinese, found a Chinese article about fake Hero pens. arrgggg. I sent an email to the guy I bought it from on ebay.

Post a photo if you could. I'd be interested to see this one.

 

Regards,

 

Richard.

 

[parilla]

  J English Smith said:

After flushing, I just press the bar to expel as much water as possible, then use a tissue to draw remaining water from the feed/nib. You can also do a "thermometer shake" but I don't do that for fear of having the pen fly. Another small trick is to let the flushed pen sit for 24/48 hours afterward uncapped, which allows remaining water to evaporate a bit more before you re-cap and store it.

 

The only real difference in flushing the 616 vs. a 51 is that the 51's press bar is more efficient than the Hero at expelling ink or water. To either fill or to clean a 616, I find the best bet is to remove the sac guard/bar by pulling it off and then squeezing the sac directly. Some Heros have the sac guard affixed, some don't. Newer ones seem to just press-fit, allowing you to pull it right off and then re-seat it when done.

 

As has been noted several times, there is a difference in the overall system as a 51 is an actual 'aerometric' feed with breather tube, allowing air pressure to equalize, while the Hero is a simple squeeze-fill mechanism.

I have Hero 616s (also P.51s) which I really like, but find difficult to get more than a few drops of ink into . I have tried removing the sac cover but still cant get much in...the sacs simply wont fill beyond a few drops worth. Currently I am experimenting with making one an eyedropper filler. I have blocked t

he hole in the top end of the barrel and removed the sac. So far, it seems to be working, but it was only done this morning so its too early to tell if it is successful. Any comments?

[w0den]

  parilla said:

  J English Smith said:

After flushing, I just press the bar to expel as much water as possible, then use a tissue to draw remaining water from the feed/nib. You can also do a "thermometer shake" but I don't do that for fear of having the pen fly. Another small trick is to let the flushed pen sit for 24/48 hours afterward uncapped, which allows remaining water to evaporate a bit more before you re-cap and store it.

 

The only real difference in flushing the 616 vs. a 51 is that the 51's press bar is more efficient than the Hero at expelling ink or water. To either fill or to clean a 616, I find the best bet is to remove the sac guard/bar by pulling it off and then squeezing the sac directly. Some Heros have the sac guard affixed, some don't. Newer ones seem to just press-fit, allowing you to pull it right off and then re-seat it when done.

 

As has been noted several times, there is a difference in the overall system as a 51 is an actual 'aerometric' feed with breather tube, allowing air pressure to equalize, while the Hero is a simple squeeze-fill mechanism.

I have Hero 616s (also P.51s) which I really like, but find difficult to get more than a few drops of ink into . I have tried removing the sac cover but still cant get much in...the sacs simply wont fill beyond a few drops worth. Currently I am experimenting with making one an eyedropper filler. I have blocked t

he hole in the top end of the barrel and removed the sac. So far, it seems to be working, but it was only done this morning so its too early to tell if it is successful. Any comments?

 

Even with my fake 616, if I squeeze the bar fast enough, it seems to fill up a buch... However, I did see one person saying the best way to fill a 616 is to hold the pen nip up, squeeze the bar, upt it in the ink, and let go of the bar. Repeat this a few times (he says no more than 2, but I don't know about that...) I have not tried this method.

[w0den]

  richardandtracy said:

  w0den said:

  publius said:

How on Earth do you end up with a fake of such a cheap pen?

 

Beats the hell outa me, but the cap does not look the same and they leak. At first I thought they must have gotten rid of the arrow on the clip. One of my friends, who speaks Chinese, found a Chinese article about fake Hero pens. arrgggg. I sent an email to the guy I bought it from on ebay.

Post a photo if you could. I'd be interested to see this one.

 

Regards,

 

Richard.

Hi, All I have right now is my phone, I will post a better picture over the weekend....

 

 

 

But I think you can make out the lack of arrow design on the nib. Of course, it could be possible that hero changed the design, but I found Hero's Chinese website, and they show no change in design.

 

One question... do real hero pens join the nib section to the filler via threads or is it a preasure/glue fit like the parker 51 (which require heat to remove)? I was able to fix the leaks with some clear nail polish, but I don't plan on using the pens anyway, as who knows when they will leak...

[someonesdad]

I bought (well, my wife did, as she has the paypal account) two packages of ten 616s for $11 each, delivered to the US from Hong Kong. These have the arrow clips that are missing the "feathers". They are definitely cheap pens and have too wide of a gap in the nib (I measure it at 0.09 mm) and thus write too wet. One of these days I'll find some 2 mil shim stock or wire and try to bend the nib tips together to see if I can slow things down a bit. These pens aren't bad writers, but are just too wet for my tastes. I have no way of telling if they are fake Heros or not. I've compared them to three Hero 332s that a coworker brought back from a business trip to the far east about 10 years ago which perform flawlessly. These cheap 616s look a bit suspicious, but that's about all I can say.

 

At the same time she bought those 20 cheap pens, my wife accidentally bought two Hero 616 Jumbos for $4 each, delivered to the US from Hong Kong. One of these has turned into my absolutely favorite pen; I keep it inked with Bay State Blue and it's a joy to write with. The other 616 Jumbo currently has Noodler's Forest Green in it and also writes beautifully. When she told me about the $4 pens (but before they had arrived), I felt she overpaid -- and she admitted that the web site she bought them from was a bit confusing. But it was one fortunate mistake, as I got a truly beloved pen out of it. My Montblanc sits in a tin can whimpering...

[Xing]

I'm Chinese and from what I gather on Chinese pen forums, the Hero 100 and the 616's sections are both threaded to the hood, though some claim that (at least) the Hero 100 is reverse treaded for the joint between the hood and the section. Some one posted photos of the 616's anatomy on this thread.

 

And yes, there is fake Heros in China, quite a number too; since though Heros are cheap, they do have a good reputation amongst Chinese pens for quality. However, this is the first time I heard of fake Heros showing up outside of China.

[w0den]

  richardandtracy said:

Post a photo if you could. I'd be interested to see this one.

 

Regards,

 

Richard.

 

 

OK, here are some better pictures... Could it be real? did they change the design? In all my searching around, nobody complained about 616s leaking, 2 of the 4 I tried leaked... Though the anatomy from that other link looks about right...

The good news is they gave me my money back, without me having to send these pens back to Hong Kong. Of course I just turned around and used the money to buy something else... A reform 1745 (actually 2 for good measure).

 

So do you guys think this is fake?

 

[richardandtracy]

It's unlike my Hero 616's in the following areas:-

• The clip is wrong, it should be a copy of the Parker clip
• The clutch ring should show two stainless discs separated by a clear bit of connector (as in the anatomy thread pointed to by Xing)
• More of the feed sticks out than I've seen before on a 616. (This may be an assembly feature)
• It looks a bit slender to me.
• The cap doesn't seem to have any incised lines on it.
• To the best of my knowledge, Hero only put on 'Hero' or the Chinese Characters representing 'Hero' on their pens, never any other name.

So, I'd say it's not a Hero.

As it was sold as a Hero, I'd call it a 'Fake'. Had it been sold as a 'Wenfens' then I'd have called it a 'Clone'.

 

Regards,

 

Richard.

 

[w0den]

  richardandtracy said:

It's unlike my Hero 616's in the following areas:-

• The clip is wrong, it should be a copy of the Parker clip
• The clutch ring should show two stainless discs separated by a clear bit of connector (as in the anatomy thread pointed to by Xing)
• More of the feed sticks out than I've seen before on a 616. (This may be an assembly feature)
• It looks a bit slender to me.
• The cap doesn't seem to have any incised lines on it.
• To the best of my knowledge, Hero only put on 'Hero' or the Chinese Characters representing 'Hero' on their pens, never any other name.

So, I'd say it's not a Hero.

As it was sold as a Hero, I'd call it a 'Fake'. Had it been sold as a 'Wenfens' then I'd have called it a 'Clone'.

 

Regards,

 

Richard.

 

Ok,

[*] I agree that the clip is all wrong...

[*] I am not sure why it did not come out in the pic, but the clutch is two metal discs seperated by clear plastic...

[*] there are incised lines, but they are very very faint

[*] A co-worker informs me that wen fang is a transliteration of the chinese word meaning hero, however, I have never seen this in any of the pictures of hero 616s that I have seen

 

so yes, I believe that this is a really bad fake of an ok clone of a fantastic pen (one day I will acquire a real Parker 51). On the bight side my father-in-law just gave me an old parker 21, but I think there might be a leak, if so, there will be more posts from me as I try to fix it...

 

Cheers,

w0den

 

 

[burmeseboyz]

I just got a bunch of these from ebay. Only $14 for 10 of them including shipping so I'm not complaining. I'll try to do a disassembly and nib adjustment tonight and see how they write. They don't look bad for being $1.40 each. But then again, the nib might dissolve after a month with these cheapies.

[merzig]

  w0den said:

OK, here are some better pictures... Could it be real? did they change the design?

 

I recently bought some of these on ebay to replace the 616s I gave away. Same length, same colors, same internal workings. However they're certainly different from my original batch, and I've had some leaking issues as well. Also a much cheaper metal sac sleeve.

 

 

Here are some comparison shots. "New" Hero on the left, older legit 616 on the right.

 

Capped:

http://farm3.static.flickr.com/2456/3531823774_f71b937965_o.jpg

 

 

 

Cap details:

http://farm3.static.flickr.com/2020/3531825064_5e1c7e74f3_o.jpg

 

 

 

Caps from the top:

http://farm3.static.flickr.com/2287/3531824912_91b8e13822_o.jpg

 

 

 

Bodies only. Notice the big difference in the placement of the ink window.

http://farm4.static.flickr.com/3404/3531010051_c55ae26f6e_o.jpg