Montblanc Pistons

[niksch]

I'm adding these photos to this thread in case they get lost in the "Comparison of 1960s 149s" thread.

 

Original post is here

 

Early 1960s 149 with friction fit piston mechanism:

http://www.niksch.us/pen_pix/early60s149.JPG

 

Mid-Late 1960s 149 with threaded piston mechanism:

 

http://www.niksch.us/pen_pix/mid-late60s149.JPG

 

Comparison of the piston mechanisms of both pens:

http://www.niksch.us/pen_pix/pistoncomparison1.JPG

 

http://www.niksch.us/pen_pix/pistoncomparison2.JPG

Edited March 21, 2010 by niksch

[RSVP]

This is a very good thread.

 

Could someone confirm how the spindle (part 3.1 on the diagram above) fixes into the piston? I have a few vintage 22 and 32 examples where it has come out completely (I assume due to stiffness) and would like to try and get them 'up and running' if at all possible.

[DetlevCM]

Looks interesting, and thanks for the details

 

But I must ask - so what can we gain from this?

(Except satisfying curiosity)

[sarahfar]

I just bought this pen last night from a friend who was left it by his Uncle, it's my 4th 149 and this one is decidedly different. The nib is different than the other 149 14c I owned in that it isn't marked and is much more flexible, not the typical nail.

 

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v209/mikefarha/IMG_0051.jpg

 

The other thing is that I could be wrong on the date. The material is much more warm to the touch, more like celluloid but I don't think it could be that old to be celluloid. The cap and hump are consistent with a 70's and the clip is marked Germany so I thought it fit an early 70's from the piston etc, but even the know has scalloped areas and is hollow like something more vintage. The piston is not the heavy brass when exposed.

 

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v209/mikefarha/IMG_0049-1.jpg

 

finally the cap has a small breather hole, something I've never seen on any of my other MB's but have seen on some of my european celluloids before.

 

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v209/mikefarha/IMG_0050-1.jpg

 

Since I sold my other 3, I've always had a bad case of remorse and this one is a real keeper love the way it writes, just wondering if anyone has any insight about the potential date.

 

TIA

[niksch]

I think your pen is a mid to late 1970s production 149, judging by the one-piece barrel construction and bi-color 14C nib. I'd like to see the feed also, but suspect it is a split-ebonite feed. You've got a very nice pen there.

 

Eric

[niksch]

But I must ask - so what can we gain from this?

(Except satisfying curiosity)

 

 

Knowledge. I thought that was perfectly clear from the text in Post #1.

[sarahfar]

thanks Eric, I was pleased for what I paid for it, I have zero complaints and have missed the 149's since I sold them off. This Nib is more flexible and the best writer and the feed is a split ebonite with I would say a 3 or 4 mm sold split between fins/gils.

 

And believe it or not, it sat in a watchmakers case for consignment for 6mos and no one hit on it. Like I say, I'm just happy no one did and picked it up for right at 250.00.

 

Thanks and best,

Mike

[sarahfar]

I cleaned it up, gave it an ultasonic bath and got the old ink flecks out, and this pen is a cut above the nib at least and feed is far superior to the other 3 or 4 149's. What has me puzzled is Cap, it's warmer to the touch and the breather hole that is factory drilled. In the light, the pen has an amber tint, a beautiful amber, light amber tint if the light hits is just right. The barrel to. But there are other aspects of the pen that clearly date is a mid to late 70's pen. That breather hole though caught my attention on the cap, I had a couple of older Shaeffers and Waterman that had them and I know they used them because caps used to have pressure humidity issues and ink would collect. But I didn't know they used them this late. I'm just curious about the breather. I'm beginning to think that at some point the owner that left my friend the pen may have had MB work on it and maybe some parts were switched out, not that any of that matters, I love it and will never sell it, that cap breather though threw me. Beautiful pen and a real keeper no matter what the date.

 

Thanks again all.

[samkul]

May I kindly ask you to let me knwo how much does it cost to replace piston on MB 149? Your help i smuch appreciated. O by the way I live in Australia - Perth. Kind Regards

[goldfinger]

Very Informative! Thanks!

[rockspyder]

Looks interesting, and thanks for the details

 

But I must ask - so what can we gain from this?

(Except satisfying curiosity)

 

Since reading this, I have bravely started opening my MB's with stiff pistons, including one with a slight but disconcerting bit of ink in the piston thread, cleaned them, and voila!!! :clap1:

Very very valuable information, thanks a lot - saves me an international shipment and a very very long wait

[Tom Heath]

There have been several posts lately which refer to 'brass' piston mechanisms versus 'resin' piston mechanisms in 146 and 149 models, and the merits or demerits of each type.  I have maintained that the difference is negligible, until most recently, and the main difference is the weight of each and how those couple extra ounces may affect the feel of the pen.

 

For clarification, when I refer to a MB piston mechanism, I mean the entire assembly as seen below:

An interesting point to note, is that there are three shared (or identical) components of the modern 146 and 149 mechanisms: the threaded spindle attached to the turning knob, what I'll call the piston rod that holds the seal, and the elastomer piston seal.  Very early 60s 149s had a larger inside barrel diameter, and therefore a larger elastomer seal, I posted on this before, so will not belabor this point.

 

For comparison purposes, I photographed modern components of MB piston mechanisms: first photo has the the most modern 146 piston component, then an 80/90s component and a 70s component; second photo shows 149 components of a late 80s 149, early 70s 149, and very early 60s 149 (damaged).

 

 

 

Hi Niksch ( Eric) and FPN'ers

 

I am new to this topic , The comparision of the different filler systems is indeed a tool to help when approaching the repair of a non performing piston filler.... Your providing of these most excellent photos are definitely a help to most Montblanc owners, even if they do not wish to tackle the repair themselves. At least knowing the basis helps one decide when it is time to operate.

 

Question are there any Montblanc specific tools required to teardown and rebuild a piston ?

 

Thanks

Tom Heath

 

When comparing the 146 components, one can clearly see the differences between the older and newer models, with the older model containing about 40% resin.

 

One can make the same observation with the 149 components. Note the the friction fit component is all resin except for the gold piston ring; it also uses a turning knob and piston rod/seal similar to the threaded mechanisms, but the seal is of a larger diameter. There is a newer piston mechanism on late 1990s/early 2000s 149s similar to the 146 mechanism.

 

Finally for a modern/vintage comparison here is a photo of the modern 146 piston mechanism alongside a 50s three-stage mechanism:

 

[niksch]

Hi Niksch ( Eric) and FPN'ers

 

I am new to this topic , The comparision of the different filler systems is indeed a tool to help when approaching the repair of a non performing piston filler.... Your providing of these most excellent photos are definitely a help to most Montblanc owners, even if they do not wish to tackle the repair themselves. At least knowing the basis helps one decide when it is time to operate.

 

Question are there any Montblanc specific tools required to teardown and rebuild a piston ?

 

Thanks

Tom Heath

 

 

Hi Tom! Good to see you here. There is one essential tool for the threaded piston mechanisms, and that is a simple spanner (or piston) wrench. Fountainbel sells one, as does Tom Westerich on penboard.de. If you are considering working on a friction ift mechanism, not current tools exist, but I have learned how to carefully remove the mechanism, but it's a nerve wracking process so as not to break the barrel. The older celluloid model pens have yet another removal tool, and I think they are available from Fountainbel and Tom as well. However, working on celluloid pens is a completely different situation than modern pens.

 

Let me know if you have other questions!

 

Eric

[RSVP]

I found this little breadown picture/diagram worthy of a few looks

 

 

Could someone please explain how part 3.1 is secured into the pen, so that it operates the piston? I am quite mystified by this.

[niksch]

Could someone please explain how part 3.1 is secured into the pen, so that it operates the piston? I am quite mystified by this.

 

 

3.4 is like a tube that has internal threads. The spindle on 3.1 threads into that piston rod (through 3.2) thus the threading action actuates the piston rod/seal in the barrel when the when the turning knob (3.1) is turned.

Edited January 28, 2011 by niksch

[sdeyer]

May I kindly ask you to let me knwo how much does it cost to replace piston on MB 149? Your help i smuch appreciated. O by the way I live in Australia - Perth. Kind Regards

 

I just got my 149 (c.2003) back from Mont Blanc service. They replaced the piston and a few other parts along with the barrel (it had a crack) for $76. You basically send it to them for repair for the flat fee and they fix everything pretty much.

[draeroheli]

May I kindly ask you to let me knwo how much does it cost to replace piston on MB 149? Your help i smuch appreciated. O by the way I live in Australia - Perth. Kind Regards

 

I just got my 149 (c.2003) back from Mont Blanc service. They replaced the piston and a few other parts along with the barrel (it had a crack) for $76. You basically send it to them for repair for the flat fee and they fix everything pretty much.

 

Hi MB Service is excellent. We can have a great confidence in MB for their product's support. They are the best . Htin

[RSVP]

Could someone please explain how part 3.1 is secured into the pen, so that it operates the piston? I am quite mystified by this.

 

 

3.4 is like a tube that has internal threads. The spindle on 3.1 threads into that piston rod (through 3.2) thus the threading action actuates the piston rod/seal in the barrel when the when the turning knob (3.1) is turned.

 

 

Thank you for your reply. It is just that I have some 22-types where the cone and spindle has come out. If I screw them back in the piston does not engage. I feel I am missing something elementary.

[niksch]

You are correct in that the mechanisms of the 22 and 14x are similar in theory. Sounds like the connection of the spindle and the piston knob is broken...even if they may be connected. You should feel the spindle "stop" after a half turn or so on the knobs you have. If they spin freely, then they are not working properly.

[Raiden]

I was gifted a 149 that I'm guessing is 1970's vintage with resin piston threads and a tri-color nib marked 18c. It has been is storage for many years but the piston does operate and I was able to flush it out with water and ink it with MB Racing Green. My question is if it is normal for there to be about 1/2 turn of play before the piston engages. In other words after I unscrew the piston cap from the barrel I feel the play before the piston begins moving toward the nib (counter clockwise) and the same play at the beginning of the filling stage (counter clockwise). This is my first MB and I want to be careful until I understand what is normal and what isn't.

 

Thank you!