Montblanc Pistons

[niksch]

Nice picture Pen Nut, I think part 2.1 will have further two parts with the screw out section and separate barrel.

Not on a modern pen.  Vintage 1950s, yes, but this is a modern pen.

[sumgaikid]

There have been several posts lately which refer to 'brass' piston mechanisms versus 'resin' piston mechanisms in 146 and 149 models, and the merits or demerits of each type.  I have maintained that the difference is negligible, until most recently, and the main difference is the weight of each and how those couple extra ounces may affect the feel of the pen.

 

For clarification, when I refer to a MB piston mechanism, I mean the entire assembly as seen below:

An interesting point to note, is that there are three shared (or identical) components of the modern 146 and 149 mechanisms: the threaded spindle attached to the turning knob, what I'll call the piston rod that holds the seal, and the elastomer piston seal.  Very early 60s 149s had a larger inside barrel diameter, and therefore a larger elastomer seal, I posted on this before, so will not belabor this point.

 

For comparison purposes, I photographed modern components of MB piston mechanisms: first photo has the the most modern 146 piston component, then an 80/90s component and a 70s component; second photo shows 149 components of a late 80s 149, early 70s 149, and very early 60s 149 (damaged).

 

 

When comparing the 146 components, one can clearly see the differences between the older and newer models, with the older model containing about 40% resin.

 

One can make the same observation with the 149 components. Note the the friction fit component is all resin except for the gold piston ring; it also uses a turning knob and piston rod/seal similar to the threaded mechanisms, but the seal is of a larger diameter. There is a newer piston mechanism on late 1990s/early 2000s 149s similar to the 146 mechanism.

 

Finally for a modern/vintage comparison here is a photo of the modern 146 piston mechanism alongside a 50s three-stage mechanism:

 

 

 

Eric,

 

Can you show a pic of your damaged 149 piston unit turned with the threads showing? I'm not sure,

but that may determine whether or not mine is an early 60's 149 or not. I unscrewed the piston unit

to its normal stopping point just to check what mine might be--06's or 70's--and it looks like mine might

be a 60's 149. Behind the gold "washer" disc the thread unit comes out .01 cm,then the threads. Also, does

the piston knob need a special tool to pop off the piston knob?

 

John

[RedRob]

Thank you Eric for posting these interesting pictures. I agree with Barry, they are most educational.

 

There is one MB FP I have that doesn't seem to fit the piston assembly sequence however. It is the Oscar Wilde released in 1994. When I unscrew the knob it appears that both the threaded part and the washer with the two notches receiving the key required for disassembly are made of black plastic. From the weight distribution it appears that the entire piston assembly is made of plastic.

 

Have you seen a Wilde piston unit disassembled?

 

Have they made a special order unit for the Wilde because it has such a long barrel (compared to the other MB FPs)? If so, do you know if the Wilde has a different ink capacity than the other 146 pens?

 

Thanks for your input.

 

Robert

 

PS As I can slide the binde on my Wilde FP when the piston knob is unscrewed, I can attest that there is a white metal lining underneath the marbled plastic binde. It adds weight (or substance) to the pen, however the pen is not top heavy and weight is not tilted towards the knob as are all my other 146 based pens which have the brass piston assembly: Christie, Fitzgerald, Woolf... and forget the Proust where the silver binde (unfortunately!)outweights everything else.

 

 

[niksch]

Can you show a pic of your damaged 149 piston unit turned with the threads showing? I'm not sure,

but that may determine whether or not mine is an early 60's 149 or not. I unscrewed the piston unit

to its normal stopping point just to check what mine might be--06's or 70's--and it looks like mine might

be a 60's 149. Behind the gold "washer" disc the thread unit comes out .01 cm,then the threads. Also, doesthe piston knob need a special tool to pop off the piston knob?

 

John;

 

 

The threads of that damaged piston mechanism are almost all destroyed, but they are very similar to the threads of the 'next generation'.  I should've taken pics of talkinghead's early 149 piston when I had is a while back.

 

If your pen is an early 60s resin pen, it will have a feed with the grooves on the face and underneath portions of the feed as well as a rounded piston ring..NOT flat...and it will not have two tool slots, but only what appears to be a flat resin surface (more modern 149s will have a brass surface).

 

Let me know if this helps.

 

Eric

 

 

[sumgaikid]

Can you show a pic of your damaged 149 piston unit turned with the threads showing? I'm not sure,

but that may determine whether or not mine is an early 60's 149 or not. I unscrewed the piston unit

to its normal stopping point just to check what mine might be--06's or 70's--and it looks like mine might

be a 60's 149. Behind the gold "washer" disc the thread unit comes out .01 cm,then the threads. Also, doesthe piston knob need a special tool to pop off the piston knob?

 

John;

 

 

The threads of that damaged piston mechanism are almost all destroyed, but they are very similar to the threads of the 'next generation'.  I should've taken pics of talkinghead's early 149 piston when I had is a while back.

 

If your pen is an early 60s resin pen, it will have a feed with the grooves on the face and underneath portions of the feed as well as a rounded piston ring..NOT flat...and it will not have two tool slots, but only what appears to be a flat resin surface (more modern 149s will have a brass surface).

 

Let me know if this helps.

 

Eric

 

 

Eric,

 

Thanks for the advice. What I can say is that the feed has the front slope with two grooves that stop at the end of

the slope. While the piston ring looks flat,the inside surface under the piston cone is resin w/out any slots. I will try

to take pics to give a better idea.

 

......perhaps it's later 60's ?

 

John

 

[niksch]

Have you seen a Wilde piston unit disassembled?

 

Nope.  But I have some time on my hands, so maybe we'll see something soon.

[hari317]

Nice picture Pen Nut, I think part 2.1 will have further two parts with the screw out section and separate barrel.

Not on a modern pen.  Vintage 1950s, yes, but this is a modern pen.

 

 

Hi Niksch, I need some clarification, Looking at Pennut's picture again, the barrel portion looks like the older one piece style with the fully hidden nib feed sleeve (based on Mr. Barry Gabay's article) So the newer pens with the visible nib feed collar, do thay have a two piece barrel section or a single piece?

 

Thanks,

Hari

 

 

[niksch]

bump

[derikjohnson]

There have been several posts lately which refer to 'brass' piston mechanisms versus 'resin' piston mechanisms in 146 and 149 models, and the merits or demerits of each type.  I have maintained that the difference is negligible, until most recently, and the main difference is the weight of each and how those couple extra ounces may affect the feel of the pen.

 

For clarification, when I refer to a MB piston mechanism, I mean the entire assembly as seen below:

An interesting point to note, is that there are three shared (or identical) components of the modern 146 and 149 mechanisms: the threaded spindle attached to the turning knob, what I'll call the piston rod that holds the seal, and the elastomer piston seal.  Very early 60s 149s had a larger inside barrel diameter, and therefore a larger elastomer seal, I posted on this before, so will not belabor this point.

 

For comparison purposes, I photographed modern components of MB piston mechanisms: first photo has the the most modern 146 piston component, then an 80/90s component and a 70s component; second photo shows 149 components of a late 80s 149, early 70s 149, and very early 60s 149 (damaged).

 

 

When comparing the 146 components, one can clearly see the differences between the older and newer models, with the older model containing about 40% resin.

 

One can make the same observation with the 149 components. Note the the friction fit component is all resin except for the gold piston ring; it also uses a turning knob and piston rod/seal similar to the threaded mechanisms, but the seal is of a larger diameter. There is a newer piston mechanism on late 1990s/early 2000s 149s similar to the 146 mechanism.

 

Finally for a modern/vintage comparison here is a photo of the modern 146 piston mechanism alongside a 50s three-stage mechanism:

 

 

Hi Niksch,

I am actually a graphic designer by trade, and would be interested in putting together exploded diagrams/schematics of the parts for 149s from various time periods. If you would be interested in helping me out with this, basically all I would need would be good photographs—dead-on—of each of the parts (along with their exact measurements) with some explanation as to what the part is called where it goes in relation to the other parts, etc. If you are interested in helping out with this, I would be also.

 

Derik

[meiers]

Eric, this is amazing stuff. Thanks for all the care you are investing into your posts:

 

One question come to mind: How were the thread to the piston "almost destroyed"? Was it a case of the piston getting stuck and the owner using too much force?

 

I think that is how I destroyed one of my Pelikans.

 

Matt

[montblancdude]

Thank you so much for taking the time to actually take photos rather than just write a long-winded article about the pistons.

 

This was very interesting and I feel like I know more about Montblanc now. Thanks for posting, Eric!

 

Regards,

 

Siddharth

[niksch]

One question come to mind: How were the thread to the piston "almost destroyed"? Was it a case of the piston getting stuck and the owner using too much force?

 

 

I missed this post for some reason. I don't know exactly, Matt. I bought the original pen in that condition to use for spare parts.

Edited July 7, 2009 by niksch

[meiers]

One question come to mind: How were the thread to the piston "almost destroyed"? Was it a case of the piston getting stuck and the owner using too much force?

 

 

I missed this post for some reason. I don't know exactly, Matt. I bought the original pen in that condition to use for spare parts.

 

 

Thank you Eric.

[msilbernagel]

Oh! Very cool, thank you for this.

 

I like the "five modern components" lineup the best. I think these need to be photographed with 35mm Kodachrome.

 

Perhaps you missed the news story earlier in the year that announced that Kodak has discontinued production of Kodachrome.

[GardenCity-NY]

Thanks for a great post... as one who does not get into repair work it's great to see the inner workings of the pens I love.

 

A question; if I unscrew the fill cap at the end of my 149 and see black resin when looking into the gap between the cap and body of the pen, it tells me I have a early 70's model? As opposed to seeing brass which would mean 80's.

 

Thanks -- Joe

[niksch]

A question; if I unscrew the fill cap at the end of my 149 and see black resin when looking into the gap between the cap and body of the pen, it tells me I have a early 70's model? As opposed to seeing brass which would mean 80's.

 

Depending on other characteristics of your 149, your pen could be from the early 70s to the mid-80s. All-brass piston mechanisms came about in the late 80s.

[CS388]

Excellent post, many thanks for sharing your knowledge.

 

Also interesting to see Pen Nut's diagram. I have always wondered how the snowflake cap-tip is attached.

What is the part numbered 1.4 - is it a threaded item or a press-fit?

[niksch]

Excellent post, many thanks for sharing your knowledge.

 

Also interesting to see Pen Nut's diagram. I have always wondered how the snowflake cap-tip is attached.

What is the part numbered 1.4 - is it a threaded item or a press-fit?

 

for that vinatage of pen, 1.4 is a machine screw.

[CS388]

Excellent post, many thanks for sharing your knowledge.

 

Also interesting to see Pen Nut's diagram. I have always wondered how the snowflake cap-tip is attached.

What is the part numbered 1.4 - is it a threaded item or a press-fit?

 

for that vinatage of pen, 1.4 is a machine screw.

 

Thanks.

[niksch]

There is one MB FP I have that doesn't seem to fit the piston assembly sequence however. It is the Oscar Wilde released in 1994. When I unscrew the knob it appears that both the threaded part and the washer with the two notches receiving the key required for disassembly are made of black plastic. From the weight distribution it appears that the entire piston assembly is made of plastic.

 

Robert-

 

I have just lubricated the piston seal of a Wilde. The mechanism does indeed appear to be plastic, but is in fact a metal with a black coating.