using a Pilot Plumix with converter?

[A Smug Dill]

6 hours ago, rgr said:

I'd prefer using the seemingly sturdier Con-70, but can't find anyplace saying what it's compatible with. 

 

Because it — and, by it, I mean information provision — doesn't work that way with the likes of Pilot. While I'm happy to wager Pilot has a for-internal-use-only chart of with which pen models its various converters are compatible, Pilot wants to sell pens (and inks, too, I suppose) more than it does converters as retail products; converters are there as consumables, or parts that foreseeably require replacement from time to time, that support the use of each pen. You buy the pen — or at least have enough of an interest in a particular pen model — and then look up which converters you can use, then get one of those when you're tired of using ink cartridges or don't want to buy any beyond that which is included in the pen's retail package.

 

As I understand it, the Plumix has been discontinued (except, maybe?, in the Chinese market), so Pilot doesn't have a page or ‘special interest’ site (which it used to, for the Enso range of product, which included some sets of Plumix pens for lettering) for it any more to state which proprietary format converter product you should get for it.

 

I suppose no retailer that sells the Pilot CON-70(N) converters has enough of an interest (commensurate with sales volume and profit margin), and a wide enough range of Pilot fountain pens in its catalogue, to be interested in compiling a public-access chart detailing compatibility, as if that's useful in helping drive up sales of the products.

[Penguincollector]

   I have a Plumix and all the different Pilot converters- I can get the con-b, con 20, con-40, and con-50 to fit, but the 70 won’t fit inside the tapered barrel. I will say that of all the things besides the con-70, I think refilling cartridges with a syringe is what holds the most ink and lets you see the amount .9mL for the cartridges, 1mL for the con-70.  The con-b/con-20 both hold the same .9 mL, but are opaque. As an aside, JetPens has a compatibility guide for all of the converters.

[Number99]

The Plumix, which was an overseas sales model, was sold in Japan on an irregular basis on a limited basis.

The package at that time seemed to contain one CON-40 and one cartridge ink.

Link to Amazon product page.

https://amzn.asia/d/0V9fzPa

“コンバーター付き” is a Japanese indication meaning "with converter.”

 

P.S.

When you use CON-40, you may feel that the amount of ink you see is small, but it is designed to hold 0.4 ml as a whole inside the pen.

It is necessary to repeat the inhalation operation several times.

Edited June 9 by Number99

[A Smug Dill]

1 hour ago, Number99 said:

but it is designed to hold 0.4 ml as a whole inside the pen.

It is necessary to repeat the inhalation operation several times.

 

No, it is not necessary to repeat the ink drawing operation; a single instance of full travel of the piston in the converter will draw 0.4ml of ink up from the bottle into the pen, which does not mean the converter's cavity will be fully filled with ink. Pilot's official tutorial video clearly shows that after drawing in 0.4ml of ink, one is supposed to see a lot of unfilled space inside the converter (but that part is in fact filled with air), because a significant proportion of the 0.4ml of liquid will be in the feed and cavity of the pen's grip section. There is no need to repeat the process when not trying to fill the converter's cavity visibly with more ink.

[Number99]

9 minutes ago, A Smug Dill said:

 

No, it is not necessary to repeat the ink drawing operation; a single instance of full travel of the piston in the converter will draw 0.4ml of ink up from the bottle into the pen, which does not mean the converter's cavity will be fully filled with ink. Pilot's official tutorial video clearly shows that after drawing in 0.4ml of ink, one is supposed to see a lot of unfilled space inside the converter (but that part is in fact filled with air), because a significant proportion of the 0.4ml of liquid will be in the feed and cavity of the pen's grip section. There is no need to repeat the process when not trying to fill the converter's cavity visibly with more ink.

Why doesn't ink come up without several operations?

If you are not using a reservoir bottle, the cylinder and piston should be sucking up air as well.

[A Smug Dill]

2 minutes ago, Number99 said:

Why doesn't ink come up without several operations?

 

Ink is denser than air. When the draw of the piston causes 0.4cc of vacuum to be created inside the system, air in the feed and grip section cavity will move up to fill the converter's cavity which is sitting at the top, while ink is at the same time sucked up from the bottle into the grip section cavity. It is not possible for the air in the converter during/after the operation to escape anywhere, while the nib is pointing down, and the 0.4ml of ink in the pen is sitting below the air-filled space. In fact, even if you perform the ink draw operation again while the nib remains pointing down the whole time, when you rotate the CON-40's driver handle to push the piston down, it will drive out the ink in the pen because the air is then forced down into the grip section cavity; and there is no way for the air and the ink to swap places, without flipping the pen so that the nib is sitting above the converter.

[Number99]

If the converter is sucking up a mixture of air and ink, it should not be sucking up 0.4 ml of ink.

I understand what you are saying, but I am making a different assumption that the ink level in the bottle is not constant.

 

P.S.

You are correct if the bottle is full of ink or if a reservoir bottle is used.

Edited June 9 by Number99

[Number99]

I think it was wrong of me not to add a single word in my first post, "This is the case when the ink bottle level is low". However, I added it because I thought it was necessary to consider what happens when the ink bottle's liquid level drops.

In other words, I considered the case where someone is using the CON-40 for the first time and there is not enough ink left in the bottle to dip all of the nib.

In that case, the surface tension that occurs in the collector with multiple aspirations would be used.

Sorry....the amount of Japanese language and time required to explain complexities via translation software is enormous....

😅

 

P.S.

In addition, the cavities of the collector, which are not a single narrow capillary but are divided by many folds, are arranged in a complex labyrinth, and the ink and air do not always move in a manner faithful to the principles of gravity and specific gravity.

It must be taken into account that air can stay in several small spaces in the collector and that the ink can overtake the air.

These displacements must be complicated and non-uniformly affected not only by gravity and specific gravity, but also by the velocity of the fluid and the viscosity of the liquid.

Edited June 9 by Number99

[rgr]

Thank all of you for your Pilot Con-40 information. I found three sellers on Amazon; two of them had reviews mentioning leaking and damaged converters, so I ordered from the one that didn't have those reviews; I know I can't depend on that, but perhaps one seller packages their orders more securely.

 

Number99, I visited your link to the Japanese Amazon Plumix page, which shows, not only a Plumix with an extra-fine nib for sale, but that it includes an ink cartridge and a converter! The U.S. Amazon site offers a medium-point Plumix with a cartridge (no converter). Target's site doesn't show any Plumix pens, but Walmart's does, though online only.

 

I'm not actually concerned about ink capacity. The Plumix I bought came with a broad (maybe stub or italic?) nib, and I usually keep Diamine Coral ink in it, so don't use it much, but I do like it.

 

Interesingly, when you visit Jet Pens' converter-compatibility page for the Con-40, it's mum about the Plumix; I suppose that that's because, when you click on the pen shown in the compatibility guide, it takes you to their page where you buy that pen; and, no surprise, they apparently no longer carry the Plumix.

[A Smug Dill]

48 minutes ago, rgr said:

I suppose that that's because, when you click on the pen shown in the compatibility guide, it takes you to their page where you buy that pen; and, no surprise, they apparently no longer carry the Plumix.

 

Exactly so. As I alluded to in my earlier post, even if a vendor thought it worthwhile to compile a compatibility list, it would only be relevant to do it for the range of pen models they sell when selling pens (as opposed to selling converters) is their bread and butter, instead of providing a more general information resource “for the community” that may not even be looking to spend money with the company.

 

If Pilot itself doesn't see the need, then nobody has enough of a commercial interest to produce, host, and maintain — including update from time to time, in response to changes in Pilot's range of pen models — such an information resource, however useful the faceless individual pen user may find it to be (or would be).

[inkstainedruth]

I recently got a Plumix as a freebie at B/W this spring when I went to a talk on the history of Vanishing Points.  Pilot USA donated swag to the attendees and everyone who went to the talk got their choice of a pack of Pilot cartridges or a Plumix and I chose the pen.  I think the converter I have in mine is a Con-B, which I may have picked up at one of the tables at the show later that day, or the next day), but had to check my inventory notes, because I couldn't remember for certain.

Ruth Morrisson aka inkstainedruth

[Number99]

On 6/13/2024 at 9:45 AM, rgr said:

Number99, I visited your link to the Japanese Amazon Plumix page, which shows, not only a Plumix with an extra-fine nib for sale, but that it includes an ink cartridge and a converter!

This is the Japanese version of the package with the Japanese language printed on it.

Besides Plumix, there is a very similar model called "Pen-Shuji Pen" (penmanship pen). It is said among enthusiasts that they are practically the same pen. However, perhaps because the Plumix is a model sold overseas, no official mention of the differences between the two can be found by Pilot.

The "Pen-Shuji Pen" is sold with an EF nib, so there is no need to go out of your way to buy an EF Plumix, but the only color variation available at the time was a colorless clear body, and I think this was due to the rarity of being an overseas model.

https://www.pilot.co.jp/products/pen/fountain/fountain/_penmanship_pen2/

I remember that the CON-40 could be used in almost any pen that accepted Pilot cartridges for fountain pen.

The CON-70N has similar instructions, but it also states that some pens cannot be used at the same time, so you would have to check with the manufacturer or distributor.

 

17 hours ago, inkstainedruth said:

I recently got a Plumix as a freebie at B/W this spring when I went to a talk on the history of Vanishing Points.  Pilot USA donated swag to the attendees and everyone who went to the talk got their choice of a pack of Pilot cartridges or a Plumix and I chose the pen.  I think the converter I have in mine is a Con-B, which I may have picked up at one of the tables at the show later that day, or the next day), but had to check my inventory notes, because I couldn't remember for certain.

Ruth Morrisson aka inkstainedruth

I recently had the opportunity to look through the Pilot Corporation of America 2024 catalog and noticed that the CON-B is listed on page 73 of this catalog, which I could not find in spring. I was surprised because the CON-B is probably the same product as the CON-20, which has long been discontinued in Japan. The same page also lists the CON-70, but not the CON-70N, which also surprised me a bit.

https://pilot.widen.net/s/2j7g8jd2bf/pilot-fine-writing-catalog_website

 

If the "Pen-Shuji Pen" and Plumix are made using the same molds, Pilot could always make Plumix, although whether they would or not is another story. Maybe.

 

Postscript.

Is this an old website?  The company name is Pilot Corporation of America. I think it was Pilot Corporation of US when I saw it this spring.

https://pilotpen.us/

Plumix.

https://pilotpen.us/Product?0=40&1=30&cid=291

 

 

Edited June 14 by Number99

[XYZZY]

3 hours ago, Number99 said:

I was surprised because the CON-B is probably the same product as the CON-20, which has long been discontinued in Japan.

I was curious about that statement so started searching.  G pointed me to a post that I had forgotten about...

 

https://www.fountainpennetwork.com/forum/topic/344193-pilot-con-b-converter/

 

Searching for "pilot con-20 vs con-b" shows images of both.  They seem to be clearly different even if they are functionally the same.

[XYZZY]

3 hours ago, Number99 said:

The same page also lists the CON-70, but not the CON-70N, which also surprised me a bit.

Something I just noticed in the catalog is that the image shown for the CON-70 is actually the CON-70N.  I vaguely recall reading that Pilot didn't change the SKU or UPC for the CON-70N.  I wish they hadn't handled it that way as it is confusing.  Perhaps it is confusing for the catalog creators, too?

 

Have they still not created a black CON-70N?  ETA: to answer my own question, Jetpens shows an "N" model in its image for a black CON-70, so yes there are black CON-70N models.

[Number99]

Thanks for the correction!

The CON-20 is a converter that looks like a short version of the CON-50 with a press bar on one side, but if you look closely, the CON-B is a hoop filler type converter.

 

I can only assume that 1 is CON-70 and that the silver mantle of the converter in 2 and what appears to be the boundary between the cylinder and the mantle is the agitator. Therefore, it is CON-70N.

 

If you enlarge the image, both are out of focus, but if you look closely, you can identify them.

 

By the way, do you think the website is a valid website?

It is dated 2024 but differs from what I saw in the spring.

 

postscript.

Can you see the agitatorr on the  black converter? If 1 is CON-70, then 2 would be displayed incorrectly, which is strange.

 

[Number99]

2 hours ago, XYZZY said:

Something I just noticed in the catalog is that the image shown for the CON-70 is actually the CON-70N.  I vaguely recall reading that Pilot didn't change the SKU or UPC for the CON-70N.  I wish they hadn't handled it that way as it is confusing.  Perhaps it is confusing for the catalog creators, too?

 

Have they still not created a black CON-70N?  ETA: to answer my own question, Jetpens shows an "N" model in its image for a black CON-70, so yes there are black CON-70N models.

I checked the official Japanese CON-70N image, and it appears that they are using the CON-70 image without any changes. (Many of them are indistinguishable between the two.)

As I told you before, I don't have CON-70N, but is the agitator designed to go into the blind spot of the mantle and not be visible?

 

P.S..

I seem to recall that there were other improvements to CON-70N besides the addition of the agitator. I will check again and resubmit.

 

Correction.

Enlarged official Japanese pilot image of CON-70N confirms the presence of the agitator and that the narrower tube is long enough.

Edited June 14 by Number99

[A Smug Dill]

46 minutes ago, XYZZY said:

I vaguely recall reading that Pilot didn't change the SKU or UPC for the CON-70N.

 

The JAN/barcode for the CON-70 is 4902505024160.

The JAN/barcode for the CON-70N is 4902505602801.

 

 

51 minutes ago, XYZZY said:

Jetpens shows an "N" model in its image for a black CON-70

 

Fountain Pen Revolution, too, and equally without updating the product code or designation to CON-70N. There is no black CON-70N in Pilot Japan's current catalogue, however.

[Number99]

I found a comparison image on the Sumiri Stationery Shop blog. When the agitator is not visible in the coarse image, it seems to be identifiable by the difference in length of the thin pipe in the center of the converter.

I deleted it for a reason. Please refer to the image in the blog post of Sumiri Stationery Store.

https://sumiri.blog.fc2.com/blog-entry-787.html?sp

 

Looking at the images of both CON-70(N) in the Pilot Corporation of America catalog, the narrower tube in 2 appears to be longer. But if someone says, "They are the same." The image is so fuzzy that I can't refute it.

 

Correction.

Enlarged official Japanese pilot image of CON-70N confirms the presence of the agitator and that the narrower tube is long enough.

 

Please note, though, that many images of CON-70N used by Japanese sellers show CON-70 on the package or use images in which the agitator is not visible. Be aware of this in other areas as well, as the performance of the two appears to be different.

Edited June 16 by Number99
Correcting double translations. Remove image link.

[XYZZY]

3 hours ago, A Smug Dill said:

 

The JAN/barcode for the CON-70 is 4902505024160.

The JAN/barcode for the CON-70N is 4902505602801.

 

 

Thanks for pointing that out.

[Number99]

8 hours ago, A Smug Dill said:

The JAN/barcode for the CON-70 is 4902505024160.

The JAN/barcode for the CON-70N is 4902505602801

 

5 hours ago, XYZZY said:

Thanks for pointing that out.

thank you.

I was able to indirectly confirm my question.

And as for my other question about Plumix, when I added Plumix to my cart, it went all the way to the checkout screen, so I knew it was probably still being sold in packages of 12. (Even though I didn't get a website account.)

https://pilotpen.us/Product?0=40&1=30&cid=291

 

Edited June 15 by Number99