Copperplate practise

[caliken]

 

 

Attractive writing and nice colours!

 

Thanks for posting.

 

caliken

Edited April 15, 2009 by caliken

[Anne-Sophie]

  caliken said:

Attractive writing and nice colours!

 

Thanks for posting.

 

caliken

 

 

Ditto, very nice

[jwan584]

Hi Marie,

 

Thanks for sharing your work. I have two questions:

 

Do you use guideline aids?

 

What is the angle of the page with respect to your body? (a picture showing your overall posture would be great).

 

I am having an impossible time figuring out how to position myself with respect to the page. I'm a right hander, use an angled nib, and it seems I still have to rotate the page ~80 degrees before I can align the nib to the slant of the guidelines. At 80 degrees, I find myself having to re-learn how to form each character since they are nothing like how you'd write them day to day.

 

Keep up the great work.

 

-James

Edited April 16, 2009 by jwan584

[jwan584]

To everyone practicing copperplate, I have a general question -- copperplate was developed to give clerks a 'fast' way to write. It seems to me it's anything but fast. Has anyone reached the point where they are writing with speed?

[MarieD]

Re: my post No.38 regards the 30ml bottles of ink. Reading the small print on the labels I find that I have 5 inks from the New Century range and the rest from the Old English....so the diffference is just the quanitity and price.

 

caliken, Anne-Sophie, Thank you for your comments.

 

MattN, Being a novice in calligraphy and inks/pens/papers etc I had to do some research into your pens and paper. I now know what they look like. Your pens look so nice, I bet they are a pleasure to write with. As for what I have read about the Waterman 52 no wonder you are 'eagerly awaiting its arrival', I would be too I must admit I have never used a FountainPen with a flex nib, I didn't know the flex nib existed until I joined FPN, the only pens I have are calligraphy cartridge pens. The ones I have are a Platignum cartridge pen (8/9 yrs old), a well used Osmiroid (given to me two months ago by a friend), a 3pc Pen Quest Manuscript set (my favourite - 12yrs old) and last year I bought 3 Pilot parallel pens (nice for illuminated lettering).

I used the cartridge pens years ago for practising gothic and uncial, I am very rusty at it now though and will have to start from scratch I think. I fancied learning copperplate several months ago and bought the dip nibs because I hadn't got anything flexi enough for copperplate. I am enjoying it immensely, as I am sure you are too. Keep up with your basic lessons.

 

jwan584 Yes, I use guideline sheets. I either rule up my own (using a pencil & erase after works completed) using a ratio of 3:2:3, so if I wanted an 'x' body height of 4mm I would draw line spacings of 6mm-4mm-6mm. The work posted here is done using a guideline sheet (downloaded from scribblers) underneath my work sheet. If you dont want to use guidelines try this method it may help, if you are right handed turn your paper anti clockwise until the left bottom corner is pointing towards your navel.

 

There are numerous websites for downloading guideline sheets, just 'google' and search the internet.

 

Try checking out caliken's lovely website (you can link to it from one of his posts) and look for tutorial No.1, it contains copperplate info, brief history and writing angle.

 

Another very interesting site is the Birmingham Pen Museum, www.Penroom.co.uk it has history of pens, calligraphy, copperplate etc.

 

The pens below are the ones I use for calligraphy......

 

 

 

 

 

I think its time for a coffee now........

Edited April 16, 2009 by MarieD

[MattN]

Here's the specific Waterman I'm waiting for.

 

[MarieD]

That's a nice looking pen, like the rippled colour. Going by your writing sample you should be able to get some nice thick strokes

as well as hairlines, cant wait to see more.

 

[Crystal009]

Hello Marie,

 

I'm also practicing Copperplate, I love it! You're samples are awesome The problem I'm having is ink flow. I'm using a Hunt #101 Imperial nib and Daler-Rowney Calli Ink. I do fine once I get proper flow but I spend most of my time blotting the nib and re-dipping, it doesn't seem right. I see you're using a Gillot nib, could that be the difference?

 

[MarieD]

Hi Crystal009, I have found it difficult using Hunts 101 nibs as well (with W&N Call ink) I am not sure if they

are more suitable for Spencerian writing, I ended up giving them away. May-be someone reading this might be able

to tell us. When I started learning copperplate last August I bought a range of copperplate nibs. I tried them all and

chose the one I was most comfortable with, being the Gillott 404. I like the Brause 66EF nib for writing large lettering,

it has plenty of flex, but I cant handle it for smaller writing. The Gillott nib I use with 'x' height spacing of 5mm, the

Brause I use 'x' height of 7mm+, I love the large lettering but it is not very practical for working on an A4 size paper.

You would probably only manage to get about three lines on it. I have recently bought a small Gillott 659 mapping pen

that seems ok for 4mm spacing.

 

I didn't know anything about inks until I joined the FPN, but I have been given lots of suggestions and advice as to

which inks to try for copperplate. I started with W&N and DR inks but found them to be too thick for the fine hairlines

for copperplate. I know you can dilute the inks but by doing that you lost the really 'black' finish, and ended up with

a wishy washy finish. I have now been using Brian Walkers copperplate ink, Higgins Eternal ( recommended by caliken

and wykpenguin) and the coloured Diamine inks (also recommended by caliken) I bought recently. I am still playing

about with the Diamine, I love the colours, but a couple of them seem to bleed a little into the paper (Conqueror). I

am trying to discover now which paper is the best to use.

 

I dont know if this will be frowned upon, but I use 'Van Dyke Crystals' ( which is a wood stain) diluted in water just for

practising then I am not wasting my good inks.

 

Maybe your problem is the ink you are using, try dipping the nib into water before dipping into the ink. Other than that,

experiment with some other types of nibs and inks, its really worth it in the end......one type of nib may suit one person

more than another and vice versa.

 

Its nice to see that others are interested in learning copperplate as well....we can help each other along the way

 

Hoping to post a longer piece of writing soon (A4 size).

 

 

[Crystal009]

  MarieD said:

Hi Crystal009, I have found it difficult using Hunts 101 nibs as well (with W&N Call ink) I am not sure if they

are more suitable for Spencerian writing, I ended up giving them away. May-be someone reading this might be able

to tell us. When I started learning copperplate last August I bought a range of copperplate nibs. I tried them all and

chose the one I was most comfortable with, being the Gillott 404. I like the Brause 66EF nib for writing large lettering,

it has plenty of flex, but I cant handle it for smaller writing. The Gillott nib I use with 'x' height spacing of 5mm, the

Brause I use 'x' height of 7mm+, I love the large lettering but it is not very practical for working on an A4 size paper.

You would probably only manage to get about three lines on it. I have recently bought a small Gillott 659 mapping pen

that seems ok for 4mm spacing.

 

I didn't know anything about inks until I joined the FPN, but I have been given lots of suggestions and advice as to

which inks to try for copperplate. I started with W&N and DR inks but found them to be too thick for the fine hairlines

for copperplate. I know you can dilute the inks but by doing that you lost the really 'black' finish, and ended up with

a wishy washy finish. I have now been using Brian Walkers copperplate ink, Higgins Eternal ( recommended by caliken

and wykpenguin) and the coloured Diamine inks (also recommended by caliken) I bought recently. I am still playing

about with the Diamine, I love the colours, but a couple of them seem to bleed a little into the paper (Conqueror). I

am trying to discover now which paper is the best to use.

 

I dont know if this will be frowned upon, but I use 'Van Dyke Crystals' ( which is a wood stain) diluted in water just for

practising then I am not wasting my good inks.

 

Maybe your problem is the ink you are using, try dipping the nib into water before dipping into the ink. Other than that,

experiment with some other types of nibs and inks, its really worth it in the end......one type of nib may suit one person

more than another and vice versa.

 

Its nice to see that others are interested in learning copperplate as well....we can help each other along the way

 

Hoping to post a longer piece of writing soon (A4 size).

 

I've seen some work done with Brause nibs, and I know where to get them locally too. But Gillott ones are a bit trickier. I guess I should try a crow quill nib as well just to see...It's really frustrating though because that's the only thing holding me back. That's why I want a fountain pen now. I also think the Hunt 101 is better for larger writing, because of how flexible it is.

 

Yes, we can help each other! It's such a beautiful style, I wish I had a FP with a flexible nib so I could write like that all the time, and I mean ALL the time, haha. Thanks Marie, I'm taking all your tips into account.

 

[MarieD]

Hi Crystal, have you checked out the Fountain Pen Reviews. Look for the Ackerman pump pen review by

'wykpenguin'. I have never seen these pens before, they are not available in the UK? His review is using

a Hunts 101 nib, but apparently you can order your pen from the US with a different type of nib (there

are several to choose from).

 

Try the Ackerman web site as well for more info, they seem very interesting pens.

Edited April 26, 2009 by MarieD

[Crystal009]

  MarieD said:

Hi Crystal, have you checked out the Fountain Pen Reviews. Look for the Ackerman pump pen review by

'wykpenguin'. I have never seen these pens before, they are not available in the UK? His review is using

a Hunts 101 nib, but apparently you can order your pen from the US with a different type of nib (there

are several to choose from).

 

Try the Ackerman web site as well for more info, they seem very interesting pens.

 

Thanks for the tip Marie! I just emailed the Ackerman people for more info, and I hope I can get my hands on one. They're only 30 bucks, I wish I could find them in a store here...anything to eliminate the dipping process, haha.

[Treecat]

Marie, your copperplate is beautiful. I'm in awe of it and of other handwriting I see in the Penmanship threads. I should just give up fountain pens and go back to rollerballs or maybe.. pencils...

 

It's an inspiration to just learn how to improve my basic crabbed handwriting.

[WendyNC]

I wrote to Ackerman not long ago. They sent me a very nice reply telling me that their pens were really intended for drawing, not writing, so they couldn't really recommend something from their line to me. I'll be interested the replies others receive.

[Crystal009]

  WendyNC said:

I wrote to Ackerman not long ago. They sent me a very nice reply telling me that their pens were really intended for drawing, not writing, so they couldn't really recommend something from their line to me. I'll be interested the replies others receive.

 

Actually, there are a couple of reviews here of the Ackerman pens with Hunt 101 nibs, and they seem pretty good for writing. I'm definitely getting one...or two. Check the reviews section, you'll see.

 

[jpr]

I've always wondered why some (most?) calligraphers use dip pens that have the nib askew to the left of the body of the pen. Is there a benefit to this?

[tipstricks]

  jpr said:

I've always wondered why some (most?) calligraphers use dip pens that have the nib askew to the left of the body of the pen. Is there a benefit to this?

 

It permit a comfortable way to correctly write slanted strokes. A brief description in this document provided by Dr. Joseph Vitolo:

 

http://www.iampeth.com/lessons/getting_started/VitoloPaperAngle.jpg

[tipstricks]

  MarieD said:

Just a quickie to show you all the colours I have chosen. I am happy with the inks but I am having a problem

with a couple of the colours with 'bleeding' (using same Conqueror paper and same nib). Colours in question, worst one

Sapphire Blue, then the Florida Blue and once or twice the Imp Purple. Could be I am overloading

the nib, will carry on with some colour practise pieces over the next couple of days.

 

 

Lovely colors and a great hand in your sample, Marie!

Edited April 27, 2009 by tipstricks

[jpr]

Tipstricks: Thank you for providing the explanation!

[caliken]

That's a very thorough and full explanation from Joe Vitolo, as one would expect.

 

In simplistic terms, the object is to get the nib pointing as close as possible to the slope line, so that when pressure is applied, the tines open equally, producing a clean, even, shaded stroke. For those with a normal pen grip, the oblique holder makes this easier to achieve (as in my avatar).

 

Ken

Edited April 27, 2009 by caliken