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Greetings. There's such a wealth of information on this site that I decided this would be the best place to seek advise on this matter. The TL;DR (ie. "too long, didn't read" version) of it is: how can I reliably differentiate a real S.T. Dupont pen from a fake, based on studying the pictures alone in an online listing (particularly of the box and paperwork)? When exactly did S.T. Dupont eschew the red presentation box in favor of the black box? And here's the "mindless drivel" version (any photos below are "borrowed" for the purpose of this discussion, they are not my own): As a kid I've always admired fine wristwatches and fine pens. My dad has a pair of Pelikans (a pen and pencil set) which he used for many years, and still uses them now, and I used to look at all the pictures of intricately-designed fountain pens in those glossy magazines. Now I've crossed the big Three-O and have been working for a number of years (in an unsavory environment not actually suited to fine pens). Those intricately-designed pens are still beyond me, but I've decided that it is time to look for a nice pen. It has to be a rollerball or a ballpoint because my terrible handwriting would do no justice to a fountain pen, and partly also because I would like to use this pen for writing, not just for signatures. On a recent vacation back in my hometown, I glanced through the windows of the local S.T. Dupont boutique store in a big shopping centre and saw the Orient Express Prestige Fountain Pen, which is probably the most beautiful piece of man-made corruption I've ever laid my eyes on. The brand itself however, was unknown to me and up to that point, I only knew of Montblancs [...because, who doesn't...] and Pelikans. I spoke about it briefly to my dad who recalls that some of his colleagues did use S.T. Dupont pens. http://i269.photobucket.com/albums/jj64/liquidkiwi/dupontorientexpress_zpsd7614c12.jpg Instead of stepping into that boutique, I gloated at the display for a while before going for lunch, deciding not to embarass myself by walking into a store selling items that I clearly could not afford. And so it was a surprise that during some research later on, I found a goodly amount of new, NOS and second-hand Duponts on sale at an evil online site, some of which were to my liking and well within my means. In the process I learned about the Chinese lacquer that S.T. Dupont uses on some of their products, something that really piqued my interest and firmly set me down the path of buying my first fine pen. It will be an S.T. Dupont pen and it must feature large expanses of Chinese lacquer. As I was made aware by information on this site, as well as others on the internet, there were numerous counterfeit pens on the market, some of them marketed by apparently credible vendors with an extensive and sound rating who many not even be aware that their stock was not legit. I trawled through numerous listings and realized that the greatest challenge was finding a pen that I liked, and that I could be reasonably certain was legit based on pictures alone rather than handling the pen in person. As such I seek advise from people at this forum who are much more knowledgeable about these things. My understanding is that counterfeits have become very good over the years and it can be nearly impossible to tell from the genuine item. However I was wondering if there were any "tell tale" signs that a pen was a fake. Besides studying as close as possible, the fit and finish of a pen in the photos (sometimes difficult since the photos are sometimes not close enough, or worse, blurred), are there any other visible signs I should look for in paperwork or even the box, if those are available as part of the sale? In the older red-boxed pens which were clearly being sold as featuring Chinese lacquer or "laque de chine", I've occasionally seen outer boxes (ie. the paper box that protects the inner presentation box) that have a line of Chinese lacquer symbols (ie. the leaf) running along the upper edge of four sides of the box (ie. front, back, left and right). http://i269.photobucket.com/albums/jj64/liquidkiwi/dupontpenredpacket2_zpsc09c13e1.jpg Some other outer boxes do not have this feature. On the inner red presentation box itself, I have also seen some that have the line of leaf symbols running along the sides of the lid, while some boxes do not have it. Are they both genuine and the difference is simply a change of design? Should all the older laque de chine models feature the lacquer leaf symbol on both boxes? http://i269.photobucket.com/albums/jj64/liquidkiwi/dupontredboxnoleaf_zps88a645d3.jpg The newer Dupont pens now seem to come in black boxes with a purple liner. These appear even more difficult to study because they all look the same to my ill-informed eye. When did they make the change to use black boxes instead of red ones? I have also read an article that makes a sweeping remark to say that genuine pens always fit well into a customized area in a "cushion" inside the presentation box, while pens that are held in place by only a ribbon are likely to be counterfeit. How true is this statement? It is difficult for me to believe this since I do see a lot of pens presented in either fashion. Finally, some of the older NOS/ little used red-boxed pens may on occasion, have their paperwork contained in a red package that itself features a line of Chinese lacquer symbols, as in the picture below. Assuming that nothing is missing from the box, is this an item I should look for in a genuine item or is it the hallmark of a counterfeit? http://i269.photobucket.com/albums/jj64/liquidkiwi/dupontpenredpacket_zpsa0f5570a.jpg Are there any other things that I should be on a lookout for to differentiate a fake for the real thing? Or am I simply imagining that is possible to safely purchase a genuine Dupont pen at an online auction site? Thank you. Any advise would be most appreciated.

WATCH OUT, I just bought a fake Lamy Dialog 3. It was the white version.I have another one white and I can compare them. The fake one is a matte white, the seal that is supposed to be rubber is plastic, the nib is stiff (and probably not gold), the lines on the cap and barrel don't match up either between them, or with the clip, the twist mechanism is horrendous. And the cap has a notch where the real one doesn't. I'll try to post some pics. I hope I can get my money back, since it wasn't on ebay and I do not have any "protection". I'll try and contact the seller. Wish me luck. Link for pictures https://www.instagram.com/hemianopsie119/?hl=ro I'm editing this, because people seem to think a fake lamy Dialog 3 is so impossible, even though most of them don't even own one. Differences from the original: 1.the pen is matte. There is no matte white model. Only a laquered one, which is shiny. ( Do you think Lamy would forget to laquer and polish a pen? Or is the pen polished after full assembly? Really!?!) 2.the clip is matte, not shiny 3.the material even though it's matte, feels rougher to the touch compared to a black matte lamy 4.the nib is stiffer than a lamy gold nib. Is like a steel lamy nib. 5.the yellow part of the nib is washed out compared to the real one 6.the twist mechanism barely moves 7.when taking apart the pen, and unscrewing the part that holds the nib, it also screws and unscrews very hard, like there is a lot of friction. 8.the clip of the pen barely opens and requires tremendous force, the real one opens triple as much with considerabile less force. The clip barely retracts when extending the nib, very imperceptible, a lot less than on the original one. 9.the lines on the cap of the pen do not align with the clip, or with the lines on the body of the pen, not even when the nib is entirely retracted 10.the cap part of the pen, has a cut out that you can see when the pen is unscrewed. The real one does not. 11.the convertor is different also. The turning knob is a matte plastic, not shiny like the original. The "germany" imprint on the knob is different, and the "lamy" one is inside the plastic, instead of raised like the original has. 12.the lines on the body of the pen are on the surface of the coating, unlike on the original where is under a coating of laquer 13.The "lamy" branding on the bottom of pen is slimmer than on the original 14.Also the cartridge included in the box of the pen is different from those that I have 15.the seller has got more than one of these white pens, all identical to this one. 16.the seal that protects the nib from drying out, is a plastic piece, instead of the rubber on the original. ..a poorly executed original pen?.. I don't think so.

I recently purchased what the Ebay seller claimed was an authentic Montblanc Rouge et Noir pen that I found to be counterfeit. I then purchased the real thing directly from my local Montblanc store and compared the two (see photo collage ®=the real thing). I though you guys might enjoy seeing the difference even though it was not a fountain pen (it was a rollerball) since I know there are counterfeit versions of the fountain pen out there as well. Here are my notes on the differences that I submitted to ebay in an attempt to shut the seller down. He used photos directly from the Montblanc web site in his listing: All metal on the counterfeit pen is chrome instead of the matte finish on the authentic pen. (photo in eBay listing showed matte metal, but pen delivered did not match listing photo)Snake clip on counterfeit pen is simple chrome while authentic pen features recessed areas that are much darker than than the raised areas. eBay listing text mentioned "aged by a unique galvanic and stripping process" which is what the authentic pen had, but was not found on the counterfeit version sold on eBay (photo in eBay listing showed dark recessed areas, but pen delivered did not match listing photo)Snake clip tail on authentic pen curves upward just before it ends near the top of the pen while counterfeit pen does not curve up. (photo on eBay listing showed snake's tail curving up near end, which does not match the pen I received from seller)Detailing on snake clip was simpler on counterfeit pen, the snakes head is wider and thicker. Counterfeit pen features larger eyes, wider area between the eyes and missing detail below the eyes.The authentic MontBlanc pen features text on the underside of the clip that the counterfeit pen is lacking. The MontBlanc logo and text on the counterfeit pens cap is raised and white. Authentic pens have a recessed logo and text with no coloration added. (photo on eBay listing from seller matches authentic pen. Pen sold to me did not match the photo used in the eBay listing)Counterfeit pen has thin black coating on main barrel that is already flaking off to reveal a gold-colored material underneith. The authentic pen's material cannot be removed by scraping with my fingernail, but the black material on the pen sold on ebay can easily be removed with very light scraping with a fingernail. It started to flake off through normal use and I only used my fingernail because I thought the gold color was something that was stuck to the black (like a mark from a metallic gold sharpie pen) that might be removed with my fingernail... but the black came off instead of the gold!Metal band near rear cap is thicker and chrome on counterfeit pen while authentic pen features a slightly thinner band that has a matte finish.Threaded parts on the counterfeit pen are not interchangable with an authentic pen with the exception of the ink cartridge. The threads are not the same. Even the Rollerball refill that came with the pen looked different than what came with an authentic pen. Japan vs GermanyThe pen I purchased on eBay matches all the qualities (and the photos) of pens that can be found when searching for the following on google: reproduction OR replica montblanc rouge at noir such as the one found here: http://gavelock.co/index.php?main_page=product_info&cPath=83&products_id=1341Seller claimed in his eBay listing that the Item Location was "Wembley, United Kingdom", but he shipped it from Poland and is asking that it be return shipped to Poland. If you ever think you might have purchased a counterfeit Montblanc, then do not attempt to start a return. Instead look for an option on ebay for items that do not look authentic and that will allow you to pursue things without the time constraints associated with a return. Also, ebay informed me that I should not send the pen through the mail since that is illegal and had me sign a form that indicated that I had destroyed the item before they could process my full refund. Also, you can bring a pen to a Montblanc store and they can send it in for service and they will inform you if it is a counterfeit. I did not do that since my photos and receipt (but had to be signed by a store manager) were enough to convince ebay that the seller had sent me a counterfeit item.

Hello all, I purchased a Lamy Al-Star ocean blue earlier this week, and received it today. A number of things about the pen and it's box were quite concerning. The photos are available here:http://imgur.com/fpngallery/8MQqM/ Anyway, my major concerns are The pen came with blue ink residue in the feed and under the nibThe nib appeared to be slightly scratchedThe box it came in was a small, silver box unlike the normal black with holesThe pen came with zero documentation It came with five black cartridges and one blue cartridge — all without the silver Lamy stamp—only an imprintI was wondering if anyone has had a similar experience? Thanks, Caleb

If the subject has been done to death, sorry. How does one ensure that you are getting the best version? That's weird: A knock-off of a knock-off. The worst are like dragging a finger nail on a emery board, not surprising given that the nib is very fine.

Hello! I am new on the fountain pen hobby. Recently I purchased from a web store called lulustar.office, on ebay, a Lamy Safari Charcoal, fine nib, for a very good price (USD 14 + shipping). However, when it arrived, the pen came with no box, no cardboard, no cartridges, no instructions manual, just the pen itself with a converter inside of it, packaged in a cheap plastic bag that only fitted the pen at all, nothing else. I was really suspicious that I actually bought a conterfeit Lamy. However, the pen puts down a really fine line, much finer than my Parker Frontier made in India, which is supposed to have a fine nib, but looks more like a medium one. Also the pen produces a minimal feedback, which seem to be normal, considering the opinions from other Lamy Safari’s users. What bothers sometimes me is that the pen seems a litle dry and skips in very fast writing and traces, though. Can I be before a counterfeit Lamy Safari? I took some pictures from it and wanted to create a topic in this forum in the FPN site, in order to collect opinions from more experienced fountain pen users! Thank you all very much in advance! With my best regards!

Hello all. I'm pretty new to FPN, and I'm wondering if you can help me with a question about the authenticity of my Pilot Vanishing Point Decimo. I received the pen today, and when I opened it up to put in some ink I noticed that the nib is unlike any other Pilot VP nib I have ever seen. I have been looking online for hours, but I can't find a single image of a Pilot VP nib that looks like what I have in front of me. I'm thinking that I might have received a counterfeit. Has anybody ever seen or even heard of a Pilot VP nib that looks like this one does? Image Link (because the site is being slow for me and I can't post the images here): https://imgur.com/a/1dceyCa Short Description: The nib has these sort of cut outs in the base, where the nib and feed join with the metal tube. The "wings" that wrap around the bottom of the feed and hold the nib and feed together are also different.

I am used to seeing a more digital looking fond with serifs and more angular font. Is this good? EDIT- I forgot to mention previously that the owner did have this 149 serviced by Montblanc and has that paperwork.

I recently purchased a supposedly new and unopened Visconti 3 Pen Case, however, I fear that I may have received a used counterfeit. The case does not have a metal V on the front of it nor does it have the Visconti logo on the back. In addition, the case was stated as new and unopened however the inside of the case had damaged felt. I just wanted some second opinions on this. I searched through FPN, google, and reddit, but I could not find anything. I can provide more pictures if necessary. Thank you,

Hello everyone: Im a fountain pen newbie who arrived late to the Lamy Safari party; I only discovered them a couple of years ago. Ive really been lusting after the beautiful aquamarine 2011 special edition which sold out way before I had even heard of Lamy. I have seen a few of the aquamarine Safaris advertised on eBay, but Ive also been reading about all the fakes that are on the market. As a brand new buyer of Safaris, I dont want to get duped right out of the gate. Ive watched videos on how to spot a fake, but I dont know any way Id be able to spot fakes on an online auction site since the seller could obviously find and post pics of authentic pens, even if he/she only had counterfeits in their possession. And Ive heard that positive reviews can be faked as well. So do any of you experienced members have any advice to help me find one of those authentic hot, hot aquamarine Safari fountain pens? Here is an example of what Ive seen advertised on eBay: https://www.ebay.com/p/Lamy-Safari-Fountain-Pen-2011-Edition-Aquamarine-Genuine/592486844 Thanks! PS - Apologies if there is already a thread on here about avoiding counterfeit pens. This is my first post on the network and I did search for an existing thread first, but didnt see one.

Hello all. I just picked up a Lamy Vista 1.5mm italic from a pen store, and I noticed the ink window is partially blocked by the grip section. I tried to unscrew it and put it back on again, but the window is still blocked. I've read a couple of posts about counterfeit Lamys, and how the window does not align properly. Any chance this is a counterfeit? Or do genuine Lamys come with this defect as well? Thanks.

Hi!! Some days ago I bougth at Mexico city (where I live) a faceted fountain pen, wich looks as a Parker Vacumatic oversize. I was searching in the web in orden to confirm if it is an authentic Parker, but I didn't get any information or images about faceted Parkers. The pen description is: Barrel engraved: "Parker Vacumatic USA" (the "V" is engraved on the "R") Long with cap: 13.5 centimeters (5 1/4") Barrel diameter: 1.6 centimeters (5/8") Color: Borgoña Faceted barrel and cap Apparently, the original nib was replaced with a "Harley Davidson" nib (!!!). Some members in the First Stop forum had gave me very interesting information, wich says the pen it's not a genuine Parker. Some people says it's an italian pen. Other people says he has similar pens, but are diferente in the part of the barrel that screw in the cap. Someone more says the engraved is fancy, so it can't be an italian pen. Can somebody in this Parker forum help me whit some aditional information? I'm attaching some pictures. Thanks! Jorge.

About a year ago, I bought a Lamy Safari off of Amazon. It was the only second pen I ever bought, so I didn't realize that Amazon is notorious for selling fake pens. I wrote with it pretty regularly, had no problems, but on a whim I checked the same Amazon page that I purchased from. The seller was LAMY, but over half of the reviews complained that they were sent fakes. That got me worried that mine was counterfeit, too. Looking at all the known indicators, my pens seems to pass the rest, but my worry comes when I compare it to my AL Star. I know they are different in width, but is the Safari supposed to be taller than the AL Star? Another thing I found, the body of the AL Star takes three turns to close, and the Safari 3.5. Is this normal among all authentic LAMY pens?

I was gifted a used MB Starwalker fountain pen by my girlfriend yesterday, which I suspect is a fake (unknown to her). I have never used or even held a MB before, but I think this one feels relatively light and plasticky. It uses cartridges. I couldn't find a serial number anywhere on the cap, but maybe I'm not looking in the right place - do I need to take off the cap and clip? The nib doesn't have 14 Kt or 18 Kt on it, but has the MB logo, 'Au585' on the next line, a strange logo with what appears to be 'StOd' on the next, and 'MONTBLANC' on the fourth line. I've attached quite a few images, which can be zoomed into quite a bit for closer inspection when opened in full size. Any help would be greatly appreciated. http://s27.postimg.org/b2g02y5in/L1000099.jpg http://s27.postimg.org/k4zvw8fvz/L1000100.jpg http://s27.postimg.org/wgt4yv81b/L1000101.jpg http://s27.postimg.org/g72yvyxdb/L1000102.jpg http://s27.postimg.org/uui628h2n/L1000103.jpg http://s27.postimg.org/6hkmwj71r/L1000105.jpg http://s27.postimg.org/4813zinhr/L1000106.jpg http://s27.postimg.org/je75qgdin/L1000108.jpg http://s27.postimg.org/pmx2xs0hb/L1000109.jpg http://s27.postimg.org/t7syh050v/L1000110.jpg

Relative newby here, apologies if this is posted in the wrong spot. I've read a lot about detecting fraudulent Mont Blanc postings and pens on this site, but I think as more of such postings are available the smarter the counterfeiters become! I'm looking at a few pens right now from online sellers (mostly eBay and some antique sites) and am really concerned that nearly every one is a fake. These are not cheap pens, with asking prices in the high hundreds to low thousands for some of them, but every one has some suspicious elements... However, I've not been able to find postings here that address some of the details I'm curious to get some group input on. Apologies for the volume of questions but I'm hoping to start piecing this information together before I make some purchases. Attached are a couple of photos of things I believe are questionable. The pens I'm looking at are 1) the 75th Anniversary sterling silver 144 & 146 Barley with rose gold, 2) the Meisterstuck 146 Legrand sterling silver barley AND pin stripe Solitaire, 3) Meisterstuck sterling silver Solitaire 144 in barley. All pens are sterling silver on both cap and body. Can anybody help with the following?: 1. Is the number 925 always stamped on all of these models rather than engraved? I've seen pictures of what appears to be both on various sites. 2. Is the "Ag" insignia always associated with the presence of the number 925? I'm seeing inconsistencies across the lines, and even between pens in a line - is it only the 75th Anniversary that has "Ag 925"? 3. Should the number font - specifically the "9" in the "1924" stamped on the body of the 75th Anniversary addition - be identical to the font on the "Ag 925" stamp? (this is not the case on one I'm looking at) 4. Is a serial number universally included on all these pens from MB, or have SNs ever been "optional" for some lines based on "dealer preference" (I'm being told this by one seller) 5. Have you ever seen a serial number or "W. Germany" stamp on the clip band that was NOT perfectly centered in the band, but instead riding just above the bottom line of the band (but still straight)? This is the case with one of the Legrand 146 pin stripes I'm looking at 6. I've read here that every MB pen in precious metal has "METAL" stamped on the clip band, does this also apply to every pen line I'm looking at? Thank you so much for any help!!

Who bids on these pens? $290 for a fake roller. Wow. Whomever bought it, my heart goes out for him. Unfortunately this seller has been going at it for awhile now - A garbo roller, a boxed 163 Bordeaux (serial IW1666858) etc. Buyers, please beware of kobip25 (who also goes by shir_elias123).

I was starting to bid on this Parker Premier fountain pen: Parker Premier Black Lacquer Silver Trim Fountain Pen But as I took a closer look at the photo that shows a close-up of the nib--I noticed that it has the little plus symbol inside the diamond--something that you look for on fake Sonnet nibs. Is this always a dead give-away of a fake Parker, or did they ever legitimately produce a nib with this symbol on it? Or are there any other indicators on this Premier that give it away as a fake or as genuine?

So I decided to climb further up the price notch in the Lamy brand and I decided to purchase an Al-Star from amazon.ca for 49, 95$ CDN which seems to be a regular rate for these pens in Canada. I am just concerned that it may be a fake as there is a lot of stories out there of fake Safaris and Al-Stars going around. My question is does anyone have any experience with fake Al-stars from amazon where amazon itself is the seller? Any input would be greatly appreciated.

Are there any models which have "Mont Blanc" written(as in engraved) along the side of the cap? Alex

So, unfortunately, I have confirmed that my Lamy Safari in Charcoal with an EF nib is, in fact, a counterfeit :-( it's not a total loss since the eBay seller apparently didn't know he has counterfeit goods and quickly issued me a full refund and did not require me to ship the fake pen back. My question is: What do I do with it now?? The build quality isn't terrible, but obviously not true Lamy quality. The nib is terrible, very thick and scratchy and practically pours ink onto the page, but at least it does write. Any ideas or suggestions?

I bought a Parker Sonnet from Staples about a week ago. I read that the sonnet is one of the most counterfeited pens. So, I compared my sonnet's nib to many photos in Google, and I realized that it's was different. The photos in google had the word "18K" below the word "Parker." But my nib doesn't have the word "18K" anywhere in the nib. Instead it had the letter "F" on both sides of the nib. Possibly fake?

Noticed a strange looking pen in my *bay feed this afternoon - 171164399891. Seems to have Jules Verne furniture, but is advertised with a "resin" body. This is the first time I've noticed an attempt at a WE - have there been others?

Which one of these sets are real and which are counterfeit (or are they all the same)? What are your experiences with them if you have bought them in the past? Anyone here who can read Chinese? What do the packs say on the front?

Time to win against the bad guys....or at least fight a faker. Picture yourself in a department store, fine writing shop, collectibles show, or swap meet. Someone hands you a fountain pen and tells you it is brand new. Under the brilliant halogen lights, the pen shimmers like a glossy new car. But something starts to bother you. A little voice starts to nag you, "Is this pen REALLY new?" Okay, put on your detective's hat. What are the telltale signs that a pen has been used? • Ink residue anywhere -- OK, that's pretty basic • Scratches visible on the body or cap -- I can spot those • A nib with uneven tips -- I might need a magnifier for this What else have your experiences taught you to look for? Step up and strike a blow against FP fakery.