Picking a width for stub/italics/oblique

[Stylo]

My question is very simple. If one is usually OK with the medium of a given model, say the M200, than what is the most logical width choice for an italic. In the prticualr case of the Pelikan M200, for example, if someone (say me ) is used to the regular medium nib, which would be a more reasonable choice, an OM or an OB?

[OldGriz]

My question is very simple. If one is usually OK with the medium of a given model, say the M200, than what is the most logical width choice for an italic. In the prticualr case of the Pelikan M200, for example, if someone (say me ) is used to the regular medium nib, which would be a more reasonable choice, an OM or an OB?

OK, first of all an oblique nib is not going to give you line variation of an italic style nib. I learned that in a phone call from Richard Binder. Oblique nibs are for people who tend to rotate the pen in hand. They are not for line variation, despite what the Pelikan nib chart shows.. I have a OM I picked up as part of a trade and while it is a nice nib, it does not put down any line variation and I have to rotate the pen to use it properly... In fact, I am looking to trade it for "something"...

 

I have a .8mm stub that Richard did for my Pel 200 and I love it. I tried a cursive italic, and just could not hit the sweet spot with any regularity. BUT, that is me...

The .8mm stub is a sweet writing nib, plenty wet and good line variation. I have come to like a fine nib for my everyday writing... but this stub is ideal when I want something more elegant or I want the writing to stand out more. I guess the .8mm would be on the line of a medium stub.

[KCat]

should be simple but you complicated it with OB and OM. Since those are obliques, it depends on your writing style as to how wide the line will appear in certain parts of your lettering (loops, connections, etc.) Unless of course, it's a factory OM which is pretty much just a medium with a little angle. No signficant line variatoin.

 

But it isn't an italic by my definition.

 

Unfortunately, I don't think you can really speak to all brands about this. There are companies (not Pelikan, at least not in the US) that have italic nibs and from what I've seen most of them are pretty fat and probably fit into the B or even BB range. But having not actually compared say an Aurora italic with an Aurora broad, I can't swear to it. so i think it's not quite so simple as you'd like.

 

or rather - i think I can make it much more complex than you'd like. :meow:

[Guest Denis Richard]

As said above by the menagerie (Cat and Bear) , if you are looking for line variation an oblique can be a gamble.

 

As far as stubs are concerns, I personaly like .5-.6mm for daily use. They give you a subtle line variation that really enhances your hand, but that does not jump in your face whatsoever.

[Stylo]

Thanks to all for the clarifications. While I know that an oblique is in principle just asymetric at the tip to accomodate hand rotation - which I think I do to a slight extent - I was under the impression that some manufaturers, especially Pelikan, added also some stubbiness to it. I guess they don't

[KCat]

Thanks to all for the clarifications. While I know that an oblique is in principle just asymetric at the tip to accomodate hand rotation - which I think I do to a slight extent - I was under the impression that some manufaturers, especially Pelikan, added also some stubbiness to it. I guess they don't

nope. not that I could tell. it is a very comfy nib for me. But not stubby. I really liked it and the MB OM for comfort but did want variation so ended up going with custom.

 

We are speaking of modern pens, of course. I think folks have said that vintage obliques did have a stub character to them (and probably some flex.)

[DrPJM1]

A Pelikan Medium is .7 mm wide, now you can have a better idea.

The smaller the stub nib, the less line variation.

An italic is like a sharp-edged stub & vice-versa, a stub is a rounded-edged italic.

I prefer an italic for that sharp look, but it is less forgiving as you approach the edges and takes time to get used to.

[memphislawyer]

I am getting a 0.8 nib from Deb Kinney on my medium Visconti nib. I have a Bexley fine that writes wet. Would you just get it modified also to an italic or other type of nib, buy a stub nib or buy a medium and get it modified? I write on the medium side of small handwriting and print rather than cursive. I am talking normal speed, but if I slow down, I can print medium size.

 

Sam

[Goodwhiskers]

A slightly stub, "left foot toes" oblique makes Arabic and Hebrew look really good from a right-handed writer. I ordered one ground by Pendemonium's nib grinder, for my aunt who was educated in Arabic. I told her to send me a letter written with it (she lives in northern California, and I live in southern California). The letter looks beautiful! Now I'm waiting for an Arabic-educated friend of mine to make some free time to interpret it for me.

[TheNobleSavage]

I started with BB Stubs. That was the only way I could get into the whole Stub Scene!!! Since I normally like Medium to Broad nibs then the clear choice for me is a 1.1 to a 1.3 stub nib. For my writing, it is perfect. I tried .9 and a .7 and that is by far way too fine for my style of writing. I write large and with juicy nibs and to try and adjust my whole style of large writing with wet nibs to a much smaller style of writing with more controlled ink flow just wont cut it for me!!

 

Now, I have an older Pelikan 400NN with a 14kt gold OM nib. Believe it or not, I can get a bit of line variation and some nice crispness and the nib has very nice flex to it. Now does this stand for all of the OM that pelikan makes? I would say no and that it is more of an Anomaly. But depending on what you want and how you like your nibs, this will determine what width stub, italic or cursive nib you will need. Go to richard Binders site and check out the diagram with the nib widths, this will be a good start. I think it would be wise to go a little broader then not broad enough. The reason why I say this is because if a nib is too broad, it is always easier to narrow it down by grinding it but only by someone who knows how. As for a stub that is too fine, in order to broaden it, it will require retipping and that still might not do it.

 

Richard Binder has nibs that are already preground for Pelikan and the Vanishing points. This would be a good start and the prices are very affordable!!

 

Hope this helps, it is a bit confusing but go to richards site and there is a lot of information that WILL help you. before you know it, we will be coming to you for advice!!!

 

 

 

TNS

[wordherder62]

Modern Pelikan OMs and OBs give no line variation. Nada. Zip. Look at the nibs, especially the ones on the 200s. They are rounded at the point where the tipping material is. Round nib=no line variation absent nib flex, which is another thing entirely.

 

Vintage Pelikan obliques, however, are often a different story. They frequently do show some line variation because their oblique angle is sharper and because they tend to have flatter tipping surfaces. True for the broad and BB vintage Pelikan nibs as well. Actually, the Pelikan 400 broad nib in the modern pens has a bit of stubbiness to it. But not the 200s. Tipping material on those is very round.

 

For line variation you need to go a little wider, typically. Some folks have handwriting that will show up the variation with a fine italic style nib or a fine stub nib. For most it's easier to go to a wider nib and get that cool line variation.

 

If you want an inexpensive option here, by the way, go to e-bay and find SPEERBOB and get one of those cool Reform piston fillers he has with the italic nibs. They are great writers and give wonderful line variation. I love the one I have with a 2.3 mm nib! Also, look at the Pilot 78 models he has with B and BB nibs. Some of those have pretty flat tips on them and write with some line variation as well.

 

Richard

[TMLee]

OK, first of all an oblique nib is not going to give you line variation of an italic style nib.   I learned that in a phone call from Richard Binder.   Oblique nibs are for people who tend to rotate the pen in hand.  They are not for line variation, despite what the Pelikan nib chart shows..       I have a OM I picked up as part of a trade and while it is a nice nib, it does not put down any line variation and I have to rotate the pen to use it properly... In fact, I am looking to trade it for "something"...

 

 

 

Wow.... just realised and measured .... this image so happens to be actual size ...

 

I think I will try grinding my Osmiroid nibs to a gentle rightfoot oblique. I noticed the problem with my poster pens.

Edited August 10, 2006 by TMLee

[meanwhile]

I think one reason that people get confused and think obliqueness gives variation - which it doesn't by itself - is that if a nib has any variation, then obliqueness modifies it - because it changes the angle of the nib to the paper, it eg shifts maximum thickness of stroke from the vertical to a diagonal.

 

However I think the OP thought that "OM" meant "medium italic".

 

As for his original question - I'm normally an XF or F person, but I wouldn't get an XF stub or italic: the whole point to an italic or stub is the *difference" between the thickness of the nib and its width.

 

A stub, btw, is supposed to be much easier to handle than an italic, or even a cursive italic. Most people would say that you should start with a .8 or 0.9 mm, and that there isn't much point in a stub of less than 0.6mm.

[Titivillus]

OK, first of all an oblique nib is not going to give you line variation of an italic style nib. I learned that in a phone call from Richard Binder.

Ok in rebuttal an oblique nib CAN give line variation depending on nib position. I wish I had an example of it but from what I have seen with my own eyes you can.

 

 

 

K

[wimg]

OK, first of all an oblique nib is not going to give you line variation of an italic style nib.  I learned that in a phone call from Richard Binder.

Ok in rebuttal an oblique nib CAN give line variation depending on nib position. I wish I had an example of it but from what I have seen with my own eyes you can.

 

 

 

K

Hi Kurt,

 

I agree with you considering the OMs and OBs I have handled. OMs I have handled give the same effect as a stub-cursive italic, and OBs as a stub, while the OBBs just seem to work like BBs. I have noticed, at least in the ones that I have handled personally, that these nibs are slightly flattened to the same degree, more or less in absolute, no trelative terms. This results in the largest effect with the M variety of these nibs. BTW, never seen an OF nib.

 

Warm regards, Wim

[*david*]

TMLee: I suspect that Pelikan doesn't make right-foot obliques because most right-handers use the other kind; and because when these nibs were popular, there were no left-handed writers to be found; or very few in any case. (Because the teacher would force every student to write with the right hand.)

[TMLee]

Tks *David* ...

 

In that case I think I am one of the rare few who must be rotating my nib clockwise ever so slightly.

 

I enjoy wirting with my Pelikan OB Left foot oblique upside down for the same reason. My examples on other posts ...

[*david*]

I see what you mean. I must admit I never thought of holding my pen that way, but it explains why it works the way it does for you.