Noodler's "bulletproof" and Renew-Point pens

[Goodwhiskers]

As I mentioned in this thread and this second thread, both in the General Pen Topics/Repari Q&A forum, I'm beginning to suspect that Renew-Point Esterbrook pens can't stop Noodler's Black ink from creeping past the feed and nib to the seam where the section and inner cap meet.

 

What I mean is, even with an Esterbrook-brand Renew-Point nib in my SJ, tightened reasonably into the section (the section is undamaged, as far as I can tell), and treating the pen very nicely on my short commute between work and home, Noodler's Black keeps ending up on the edge of the section and getting on my fingers.

 

Has anyone else here had that experience, or its pleasant opposite, or some other experience with Noodler's "bulletproof-ink-creep" and Renew-Point Esties?

 

Edit: Just now I cleaned the Noodler's out and put in Skrip Blue (Slovenian). I hope a few days will tell whether Skrip Blue stays inside the feed and nib, and off of the section.

Edited February 3, 2006 by Goodwhiskers

[Kelly]

Hi Steve,

 

I've used Noodler's Black and Legal Lapis in both my Estie SJs both with 2668 nibs. I get nib creep everytime. I have not tried any other ink in those pens. I'll be looking forward to see what happens with the Skrip Blue in yours. I know others here have some nib creep issues with Noodler's permanents, however, they weren't all on Esterbrooks.

I've tried Noodler's Black, Legal Lapis, Tahitian Pearl, Verdun, and Green Marine (all permanent or at least waterproof ink) in my Pelikan M215, Taccia Mother of Pearl and Imperial Portuguese and have had zero nib creep in those. The only other one that gets occasional creep in my Swan (original no 2 gold nib) and that's filled with PR's Burgundy Mist, which, incidently, is also semi-waterproof.

 

Hope something in there helps

 

K

[Goodwhiskers]

Thanks, Kelly!

 

Creeping onto the top surface of the nib isn't really my concern, though. I actually like the look, which says, "This pen gets used."

 

Creeping onto the leading rim of the section and into the inner cap, places where transfer to other surfaces happens easily, is my concern.

 

This has not happened in my Lamy Safaris, Cross ATX (metal section!), Duke Complete Esteem or Pelikan M200. It happens a tiny, tiny bit on a Hero 329, but the ink doesn't get into the inner cap and it stays far from where my fingers hold the pen.

Edited February 3, 2006 by Goodwhiskers

[Goodwhiskers]

After a day and a half with Skrip Blue, no problem with ink on the fingers. A tiny bit of blue ink did eventually end up on the rim of the section, but not enough to transfer to my fingers. This was probably from jostling, since Skrip doesn't creep.

 

Now I'm trying Noodler's Red (washable) in the pen.

[Goodwhiskers]

After letting the Noodler's Red in the collector (the exposed, comb-like part under the nib) drain into the sac, and then cleaning the inside of the cap and the rim of the section a few times in the past hour (re-capping the pen each time and storing the pen upright in the cup on my desk), I must report that there is no nib creep, but lots of red ink keeps showing up on the rim of the section, and I haven't jostled the pen at all!

 

The 9450 nib and feed assembly is screwed in as tightly as I dared to put it in.

 

I feel disappointed. Must I resign myself to this pen being a non-Noodler's pen?

Edited February 4, 2006 by Goodwhiskers

[antoniosz]

Steve, it is possible that ink flows comes from the space between the sleeve and the section. Do not overtighten the renew point. The threads are never 100% matching. For "normal" inks the gaps are too small for the ink to go out. But if the ink flows too much it is possible that it comes out of there. One possible solution is to apply Giovanni section sealant at the threads. Another less proper "solution" is to apply ONE layer of teflon (not more - you can break the section).

[wimg]

Hi Steve,

 

In addition to Antonios' excellent tips: another option is to apply a little bit of silicone grease on the threads. That should seal it too.

 

HTH, warm regards, Wim

[Kelly]

Thanks, Kelly!

 

Creeping onto the top surface of the nib isn't really my concern, though. I actually like the look, which says, "This pen gets used."

 

Creeping onto the leading rim of the section and into the inner cap, places where transfer to other surfaces happens easily, is my concern.

HI Steve,

 

I should have been more specific with the nib creep problem. I, too, was getting the inner cap and leading rim of the section wet with ink, at least on one of my SJs - must try the other now. I never noticed it before I started cleaning it to put it out of rotation. It wasn't as if it was pouring out. I was surprised to find so much ink on the cloth when I cleaned the inside cap...I might have to try the suggestions from Antoniosz and Wim. I do love my Esterbrooks and can't imagine not using them.

 

Hope we both find a solution

[Goodwhiskers]

Thanks, Wim and Antonios . I'll loosen the assembly a bit and try the silicone grease method because it should be even less of a hassle than Teflon tape (which I know from household plumbing repairs) and just as easy to undo. I want to get that grease for my Pelikan M200, anyhow.

 

BTW, Waterman Purple/Violette in this Estie comes through the section/nib threads more than Sheaffer Skrip Blue (Slovenian) does.

[Ann Finley]

Steve, I had Noodler's waterproof Goldfinch in one of my Esterbrook pens with a 9450 nib (same nib which you said you were using) and had no problem with any creeping, seeping, or leaking. In fact I had it in there for quite some time. (See comment at bottom of Goldfinch ink review.) ink review

 

I think the problem must be with a particular nib and/or the section (or sleeve) on a particular pen when it occurs. If you have other Esterbrook barrels and nibs it would be worth trying Noodler's waterproof in them to see how it works out for you. Meanwhile, the silicone grease is a good idea--great stuff. Please let us know if it works for you in this instance.

 

Best, Ann

[Goodwhiskers]

Good news about my black Esterbrook SJ and Noodler's Black ink!

 

After another look at Tryphon's catalog page for pen repair parts, I ordered both the silicone+PTFE grease and the rosin-based, never-drying, "section sealant." I decided to use the latter for this Estie job and keep the former for my Pelikan's piston.

 

I had previously flushed out the SJ, screwed out the Estie-brand 9450 nib, and let everything dry.

 

Yesterday I took the Select-A-Point 125 "manifold" nib assembly and used a toothpick to apply a little bit of section sealant just above the threads ("above" = away from the tip and toward the ink supply) and against the spots on the assembly's thread sleeve where the nib distorts the shape away from cylindrical. Then I screwed the assembly into the section until it stopped (applying no extra torque!). I used the other end of the toothpick and a bit of tissue paper to remove the excess sealant (making sure it stayed out of the collector). After that I filled the pen with Noodler's Black.

 

No leaking :bunny1: !

 

Since this leak had happened with both the 125 assembly and the 9450 assembly, I think the real problem was that the SJ's section's threads were a little worn.

 

I'll use the section sealant whenever I swap the 9450 nib in, too. The 125 would then go into a plastic baggie to keep the sealant from getting on anything else.

 

Giovanni, did I use your sealant right ?

[tryphon]

Good news about my black Esterbrook SJ and Noodler's Black ink!

 

After another look at Tryphon's catalog page for pen repair parts, I ordered both the silicone+PTFE grease and the rosin-based, never-drying, "section sealant." I decided to use the latter for this Estie job and keep the former for my Pelikan's piston.

 

I had previously flushed out the SJ, screwed out the Estie-brand 9450 nib, and let everything dry.

 

Yesterday I took the Select-A-Point 125 "manifold" nib assembly and used a toothpick to apply a little bit of section sealant just above the threads ("above" = away from the tip and toward the ink supply) and against the spots on the assembly's thread sleeve where the nib distorts the shape away from cylindrical. Then I screwed the assembly into the section until it stopped (applying no extra torque!). I used the other end of the toothpick and a bit of tissue paper to remove the excess sealant (making sure it stayed out of the collector). After that I filled the pen with Noodler's Black.

 

No leaking :bunny1: !

 

Since this leak had happened with both the 125 assembly and the 9450 assembly, I think the real problem was that the SJ's section's threads were a little worn.

 

I'll use the section sealant whenever I swap the 9450 nib in, too. The 125 would then go into a plastic baggie to keep the sealant from getting on anything else.

 

Giovanni, did I use your sealant right ?

Absolutely!

By the way, any excess is easily removed with denatured alcohol. I flush the pen under the tap after wiping the excess sealant off with alcohol. Alcohol is pretty benign when it comes to affecting plastics, but a prolonged exposure can dull the surface of some materials. By flushing under tap water right after wiping the sealant off, I minimise the exposure.

[antoniosz]

I am glad the sealant worked. But it does not have to be wear.

Every renew point, and every section has a slightly different dimension

(a bell curve distibution . The variation is minute, but if you

happen to match the smaller diameter renew point with the larger section you can get enough of a gap for the most free running inks to creep through. Even a smaller diameter renew point with a free flowing ink could do.

 

PS> The select-a-point was a cheap alternative of an already cheap product. It reminds me the clones of Hero pens

Edited March 11, 2006 by antoniosz

[J. John Harvey]

Hey Antonios, from the descriptions given, it seems to me that I have this problem on my Sheaffer pen - I just wipe it off, and it doesn't bother me too much because it doesn't happen often. I've used Waterman's Florida Blue in it.

[HesNot]

OK, my new red Estie J with a 1551 firm medium nib and PR American Blue is exhibiting the exact same characteristics - not the creep particularly but the leak onto the section rim where it meets the inner cap and consequently tranfers to my hands :bonk:

 

I like this pen but can't tolerate inky fingers at the office everytime I try to use it ... so, is there any place not online where silicone grease can be obtained? I'd like to give that a try to see if it helps...

 

Thanks!

[Goodwhiskers]

HesNot, there are some b&m-type silicone grease products meantioned in the first thread I started on this topic.

 

Rosin (Giovanni's "Section Sealant"), which is what I ended up using for this problem, might be available at hobby shops or art & craft shops

 

Hoping this helps,